Guns!

[cobguy]

Would you ask for tobacco or pipe advice on a gun forum?

Yes ... I have in the past done exactly this and gotten some good suggestions for stogies.
Your opening line is overtly aggressive and unnecessary.

This is a "general discussion" part of the forum where almost all topics are discussed.

If you don't care for this part of the forum ... GTFO

 

[tobyducote]

So as you can see from all of the advice given, your choice should be easy....go to a range that allows you to rent and try different handguns....have a range officer work with you on testing out 6 or 8 different hand guns...1911, revolver, glock...etc and different calibers....buy the one that feels the most comfortable and then shoot, shoot, shoot, shoot, and shoot...the only way to ever be proficient is to shoot often and a lot. If you truly want home defense, then go with the shotgun or stage coach gun. Most reasonable people who own guns would NEVER pick an assault rifle for home defense. If you want to "beat" CA legislation that may possibility restrict ownership of assault rifles, then buy it for that reason, but not home defense...if it's to by-pass restrictions on semi-auto hand guns, then go for the one that feels most comfortable in your hand. Don't worry about caliber, find "the one" that fits your hand. If you buy a handgun for "home protection" then commit to take an NRA handgun safety class and learn to properly shoot it from a certified instructor and practice!!!

 

[warren]

My! My! Aren't we testy. The OP asked a simple question, seeking information based on others experiences and knowledge. I fail to see why that should elicit an outburst of name calling. A simple answer to the question would have been sufficient. Your rant may have contained some reasonable suggestions. I quit reading after the first couple of lines.

 

[phil67]

@ newbie,
I'll agree somewhat with what you said, albeit I thought the opening comment was beyond harsh.

But yet, you're taking the time and giving the very same advice on guns just like everyone else here!

Doesn't that sound rather hypocritical as to your opening statement?

 

[Perique]

There's something about the subject of firearms that brings out the agro in men. I think it's the "forbidden fruit" dynamic, given the suburbanization of our society. Guns are tools, like those in your shed. Learn how to use them. Choose the right one for the job. Don't consider yourself an "expert" unless you use the tools every day as part of your job. And for God's sake, stay away from "the range". Find somewhere where you can shoot outdoors in a dynamic, moving situation. Aimed fire down a lane at a static target will give you bad habits and expose you to "experts" wearing XXL 'tactical' pants. Next thing you know, you'll be sporting a fanny-pack and carrying a "tactical" folding knife.
Edit: [as for the rest of my post...deleted. Nevermind. ]
Second edit: here's my final piece of advice, and it's worth what you paid for it For someone who is new to firearms and is interested in defense (as opposed to target shooting), go hunting. Sure, deer don't shoot back. But if you've never been around the after effects of shooting someone or something, all the "range time" in the world isn't going to ready you for it. Find a buddy. Shoot a deer. Or a hog. Deal with it up close and personal. The entry and exit wound. The blood. Gut it. Smell it. Skin it. Get dirty. Deal with it. This is more more important for your nerves and your "training" (I hate that often misused word) than any number of years shooting static targets at some indoor air comditioned range wearing cargo shorts and sneakers with lunch plans that afternoon. Disregard this advice and you WILL shake, rattle, and fold under stress. The "range" is a false confidence your family can't afford.
Cheers.

 

[frank13]

I agree with Perique; implicitly. Well said.

 

[eightywon]

First of all just want to say thanks for all the replies. With so many choices out there it helps that someone mentioned to stay away from glocks, enough to narrow my choices down at least a little. I agree the safety is a little strange.

To reiterate, like I've said earlier in the thread, I do plan on going to the range to learn as much as I can. It's not like I was going to take a tally and go out and buy _____

Just wanted to get some suggestion for a starting point at what to look at and any other suggestions you all could provide. Which you did. Thanks again.

To expand on my very little experience, like I've said my father was an advocate. He had a 12g O/U and took me trap shooting. He was an elk hunter, but lost his guns before I was old enough go. I have fired his 30.06 a few times though. I've shot bottles and cans with .22's. He had a Luger that I never got a chance to shoot, but I helped him clean it. I don't feel entirely ignorant but can readily admit to having little experience.

Like I said never been hunting but the suggestion sounds like good advice. I have friends who hunt. Never gutted big game but I've cleaned birds and can filet a fish with a sharp rock

As far as the family goes my girlfriend of 1 year has 2 boys and suggested getting a shotgun. It is something we plan on eventually getting, but recently learning about her openness to firearms, and me now having something worth protecting, and with the news of coming legislation prompted me to start a thread on my favorite forum to see what you fine folks have to say.

We plan on going to the range tomorrow and renting a few models. Will keep anyone interested posted.

 

[eightywon]

Oh yeah and I meant semi auto. Sorry for the typo.

 

[eightywon]

I also like the points backing up revolvers. Perhaps after the semi and the shotgun. I can see GAD becoming a thing. Lol

 

[eightywon]

Thanks trailboss! How do I know which is my dominate eye?

 

[tuold]

Make a circle with your thumb and index finger and hold it at arm length in front of you. Put a distant object in the circle and center it looking with both eyes. With your other hand, cover your left eye. If the target object is now longer centered you are probably left eye dominant. Cover your right eye now and confirm that. If the object still says centered with your right eye covered you are indeed left eye dominant.

 

[petes03]

+1 tuold.
You beat me to it, lol!

 

[ravenwolf]

I just have to say that this has been a fascinating conversation that I have greatly enjoyed.
I'm an Army airborne veteran that was under the SOCOM umbrella. I've trained with so many guns, from so many places on earth, that I honestly couldn't tell you how many. Plenty of days at a range from before sunrise to after sunset, with only short breaks for a bit of water and something to eat.
I know that I don't know everything - and I love learning more, and also reading other people's experiences.
I've never had a gun in any civilian capacity, though that may change. Went through a couple of hard years after getting out honorably where I intentionally did not want access to a firearm (some level of PTSD, etc.) Things are much better now though - reading this thread kind of reminds me that I could enjoy doing some theoretical homework.

 

[johnnyreb]

"A person that isn't willing to put in range time, probably shouldn't carry......my wife has arthritis in both wrists and can manipulate the slide on her SIG, it is about the technique employed and training...."
Trailboss,
I agree with your take exactly. My wife carries an HK P7 in 9mm and shoots it very well. I have owned the squeeze cocker for a long time and know it is immensely reliable and safe. She has no problem with grip strength on the safety and knows how to index the trigger after the first long pull. It's not much bigger than an Officers Model 1911. And as I said she shoots it very well. Expensive, but a great alternative for those afraid to carry a 1911 cocked & locked or a striker designed pistol.
Several posts have been critical of Glocks and I am not a fan either but striker fired pistols are safe. I still keep a Model 36 in .45 ACP for times when I want a hammerless pistol, and it is the only thing I own that I would ever carry in a kydex holster.

 

[schaum]

Just a few things to say. The price of ammo has been mentioned. You're going to need a substantial amount to get comfortable. I assume you're on a budget and 9mm ammo is cheaper than a lot of other calibers, so take a look at ammo prices. Or consider reloading.
Revolvers are simple and although they hold only 5 or 6 rounds placement is the key. Keep in mind if you shoot an attacker ten times you're going to have to explain why such deadly force was used instead of just repelling the attack, possibly to a jury.
There are good used guns on the market at a substantial savings.

 

[petes03]

On the subject of Glocks, I've shot a bunch of them (mostly chambered in 9mm). I've never owned one, but wouldn't be opposed to do so.

I like them a lot. They're dead nuts reliable, accurate, simple, and have a decent trigger. The only complaint I have with them is the grip angle.

For me, a 1911 has the perfect grip angle! When you raise and point a 1911 instinctively, your eye is automatically on the front sight. With the Glock, I can't see the front sight right away, and have to adjust.

That's why I bought a Springfield XD instead of a glock, it has the same grip angle as a 1911, and IMO is every bit as reliable as a Glock. Plus the XD has a fully supported chamber, whereas the Glock doesn't.
It's been said that John M. Browning put more time and thought into the grip angle than any other aspect of the 1911, and for good reason. It makes for one of the most natural pointing guns of all time!

 

[bentmike]

You guys are OK! This is a good a gun discussion as I've read anywhere else. Better than a lot of them.
I agree Petes03 about the Glocks. They're very serviceable weapons. First 9mm I ever shot was a Glock. Had cans dancing the very first shots. I just don't like the blocky look. And plastic. I'm old fashioned and like wood and steel.
It makes me happy to see new folks taking interest in shooting for all it's reasons. The industry is booming and one of the best things is the fastest growing segment of the shooting sports is women. One can hardly watch the hunting shows without seeing numerous ladies out there in the field getting it done. Although I'm not an active hunter at this time I like knowing that a portion of my guns and ammo expenditures are going to conservation efforts.

 

[petes03]

As for the subject of "knockdown power", that is something that has been highly debated for years, and there seems to be no clear answer.

But here's a fun little equation that I believe Elmer Keith came up with;
Velocity (in fps) x actual bullet diameter (in .000") x bullet weight (in grains) / 7000 = X (x being a number from 0 to infinity.)
For example; a .44 magnum (actual bullet diameter of .429") with a bullet weight of 240gr. and a velocity of 1500fps., would have a knockdown factor of (22.06).

And a .22lr (.220") with a velocity of 1000fps and bullet weight of 35gr. would have a knockdown factor of (1.1).
It's a fun little way to compare rounds, but it doesn't take a lot of things into account.

Such as, sectional density, bullet make-up, bullet structure (design), expansion rate, target make-up and so forth.

It's still fun though.
Ps. I could be wrong on the Elmer Keith thing, as there are others that it may well have been. Ackley also comes to mind.

 

[warren]

The smell of Hoppe's permeates the house after every firing exercise.
I didn't go through the entire post again but, I do not recall anyone mentioning maintaining the weapon. A break down and cleaning of the weapon is mandatory after firing. It's a good idea to thoroughly clean the weapon routinely whether or not it has been recently fired. 'nuff said?

 

[eightywon]

So I found and decided to take a basic 1 on 1 private training course. 6 hours, 10-12 guns from .22 semi to .44 magnum. Rules of safety, fundamentals of marksmanship, and reactive shooting for defense. Probably schedule sometime next week.