Glocks are as Generic as a 1911

[Briar Lee]

I find condition one to be very safe - and responsible. All that is needed is my thumb to swipe the safety down - something I am mindful of every time I turn on the safety. Having stripped a 1911 down to all of its bare parts, I am confident in the design - more so than other pistols that are not easily broken down the way a 1911 can be brought down.

The human error factor is why I carry my
1911 in condition 3.

No matter how dumb I get, my pistol can’t hurt me or anyone else until I rack the slide.

This goes back to the design purpose.

There were old men still living when there was a huge rebellion and the Rebels attacked Fort Sumter.


So the gubbermint raised a cavalry and armed them and sent them to put down the rebellion, on horse back.

There’s a bunch of boys on horses trotting along and each trooper has a saber in a scabbard and a carbine in a scabbard and a revolver in a cross draw full flap holster.

His revolver is a dangerous piece of gear. If he’s scared or his horse is scared there’s lots of ways he can hurt himself or his comrades with an unholstered revolver.

When the Army replaced his side arm the safety factor was to keep a magazine with in witb seven rounds in the pistol on command the troopers draw and only then do they rack the slides before they shoot bad guys.

If they’d have let Saint John Moses alone, the Great Gun Prophet would have given the cavalry a 1911 Browning SafeAction pistol.with slick sides and handle.

 

[telescopes]

The human error factor is why I carry my
1911 in condition 3.

No matter how dumb I get, my pistol can’t hurt me or anyone else until I rack the slide.

This goes back to the design purpose.

There were old men still living when there was a huge rebellion and the Rebels attacked Fort Sumter.


So the gubbermint raised a cavalry and armed them and sent them to put down the rebellion, on horse back.

There’s a bunch of boys on horses trotting along and each trooper has a saber in a scabbard and a carbine in a scabbard and a revolver in a cross draw full flap holster.

His revolver is a dangerous piece of gear. If he’s scared or his horse is scared there’s lots of ways he can hurt himself or his comrades with an unholstered revolver.

When the Army replaced his side arm the safety factor was to keep a magazine with in witb seven rounds in the pistol on command the troopers draw and only then do they rack the slides before they shoot bad guys.

If they’d have let Saint John Moses alone, the Great Gun Prophet would have given the cavalry a 1911 Browning Safe
Action pistol.with slick sides and handle.

Given you already have stated that you don’t conceil carry, it really doesn’t matter what condition you keep your 1911 in, does it?

 

[Sobrbiker]

No, but my Rock Island GI is as close as you need to go. And Milspeck at that.

Yes it is! There are a few good makes that stay true to JBM’s designs. I remember when Wilson, Bear, Yam, Yost, and Bonitz used to tell folks that wanted them to build a custom 1911 to bring them a Norinco as the base to build on.

I’ve had many 1911’s but only one hasn’t been horse traded over the years:
I’m fortunate enough to have a Colt-framed, Remington Rand slided “US Property” WWII that my father gifted me in the nineties when I was finally a couple years clean and sober.
I took it to a gun show to see if it was worth keeping as a collector, or to put good sights and refinish/rebuild it as a shooter. The dial-up infant internet told me it was probably re-armored post war.
Well I found a really old guy at a table in the corner with a bunch of 1911A1’s at his table, and he confirmed it was in fact, by serial number most likely a Colt frame that got sent to Remington Rand after Colt’s contract run was complete to be finished as the start of RR’s next 1944 batch and was definitely not a re-armored weapon.
I incredulously asked him how he could be so sure that that was the case…
He rolled the pistol over in his right hand, and pointed his aged and bent left index finger right above the mag release on the left side, and told me “you see son, those initials right there? Those are mine.”
Had a great conversation, and chose to modify it to suit me as a shooter and have had 27+ good years with it so far, and it’ll never leave me. Still have the bag of original parts, but the slide has been cut for better sights than a thumbnail staked up front, fitted with an SA March barrel and it’s been reparked.

Glocks are good tools, but don’t point instinctively for me.
Not to mention their complete lack of soul…

(and I told myself I would go ruminating on guns on this forum again)

 

[Sobrbiker]

The human error factor is why I carry my
1911 in condition 3.

No matter how dumb I get, my pistol can’t hurt me or anyone else until I rack the slide.

This goes back to the design purpose.

There were old men still living when there was a huge rebellion and the Rebels attacked Fort Sumter.


So the gubbermint raised a cavalry and armed them and sent them to put down the rebellion, on horse back.

There’s a bunch of boys on horses trotting along and each trooper has a saber in a scabbard and a carbine in a scabbard and a revolver in a cross draw full flap holster.

His revolver is a dangerous piece of gear. If he’s scared or his horse is scared there’s lots of ways he can hurt himself or his comrades with an unholstered revolver.

When the Army replaced his side arm the safety factor was to keep a magazine with in witb seven rounds in the pistol on command the troopers draw and only then do they rack the slides before they shoot bad guys.

If they’d have let Saint John Moses alone, the Great Gun Prophet would have given the cavalry a 1911 Browning SafeAction pistol.with slick sides and handle.

I’ll never carry unchambered.
Too many people have spent the rest of their lives trying to get their weapon into service when it’s needed most.
When seconds count, help’s usually minutes away.

 

[telescopes]

The 1911 is an extension of one's hand, that is for sure. And I agree, an unloaded chamber is useless. The need to rack the gun also is counter intuitive if and when you need to fire quickly. Imagine, nervously racking incorrectly and the bullet hanging up or getting unnecessary attention when you are trying to be quick and quiet? Let alone having only one hand free to fire.

 

[Briar Lee]

Given you already have stated that you don’t conceil carry, it really doesn’t matter what condition you keep your 1911 in, does it?

I sometimes do conceal a 1950 Colt Dick Special and a Ruger LCP

And just so the other boys don’t get ahead of me, I had a custom pancake holster made for my 1911.

I even have a concealed carry holster for my 1911, that’s peg to stick in the barrel and a belt clip.

But I can rack a slide fairly quickly.

I’ve wanted a Colt 1911 since they cost $200 and $200 would buy a usable but dented up old car. I still keep one out of habit.

But once I got a Ruger Flattop 44 Special and
loaded up a thousand Skeeter loads and became able to hit things waaaay off, the fun all went out of my 1911.

 

[telescopes]

But I can rack a slide fairly quickly.

So can a child at the range.

 

[Briar Lee]

The 1911 is an extension of one's hand, that is for sure. And I agree, an unloaded chamber is useless. The need to rack the gun also is counter intuitive if and when you need to fire quickly. Imagine, nervously racking incorrectly and the bullet hanging up or getting unnecessary attention when you are trying to be quick and quiet? Let alone having only one hand free to fire.

I’m starting to remember my friend Dick who had a series of lectures on the 1911.

Prophet John wanted a slick sided pistol and grip.

But there are old boys on the committee who’d chased Rebels and Indians and had heard lots of bullets whine.

The grip safety is when the horse gets shot and the pistol hits the ground.


The thumb safety is when the horse is still alive but wounded and running in circles.

The lanyard is when the horse bucks off the trooper and the pistol comes with him.

And I said Dick, why the half cock?

Dick said because those old boys found it useful on their revolvers.

 

[Cigar City Piper]

Everybody and his brother makes a 1911 and there’s a huge aftermarket.

But it’s a hand fitted forged steel design.

It must not be that hard to make one or we’d not see $350 new 1911s.

And a $3,500 custom 1911 is a wonderful piece of jewelry that shoots 45 ACP rounds, and worth the money.

But a 1911 is now in the public domain.

The whole problem, is to sell the 1911 in a market overflowing with cheap 1911s.

Gaston Glock, paid (legal) bribes, hired strippers (hookers), filed lawsuits, set up shell corporations, no telling what all shady stuff he did to sell one million Glocks a year in the USA alone. The old Nazi veteran died with a wife young enough to be his granddaughter. Living large like that costs money.

If old Gaston made one for $75 then the others might make one for $50.

A Glock is a Glock.

There’s no Gold Cup National Match grade Glocks, it’s a plastic and CNC milled tool.

A hammer that shoots.

Kind of the same problem of selling a Todd Johnson in a world full of Savinellis and Petersons.

 

[Briar Lee]

So can a child at the range.

Exactly.

Which is why I never leave it at the table.

Murders of Chris Kyle and Chad Littlefield - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Dick went on with his lectures on the 1911.

At that time you had to have a sheriffs commission to conceal carry in Missouri, but Dick and to a very limited extent me and other lawyers were trying to legalize concealed carry for overprivileged white lawyers driving Lincolns wearing thousand dollar suits.

. Dick bought a police cruiser and equipped it for a little police department and they made him a Lieutenant and later he bought them machine guns and they elevated him to Captain.

As Dick did sermonize, when you draw your pistol kiss your pretty wife, your nice home, your law office, your Lincoln, your farm, and your darling mother in Humansville all goodbye. You screw up and you lose everything you love.

Put a safety on yourself, and force yourself to not draw it unless you can also rack the slide.

And I’d say Dick, why do you carry Condition One.

He’d say ah, my young friend, I’m an officer of the law.

 

[telescopes]

Exactly.

Which is why racking it quickly tells you nothing about what you’d do under the duress of being victimized during a life threatening situation

 

[Briar Lee]

Which is why racking it quickly tells you nothing about what you’d do under the duress of being victimized during a life threatening situation

The act of racking a slide is sort of another safety level of not screwing up over flipping down a safety.

The first time I tried a Glock I laughed out loud at the name Safe Action.

Yes, there’s a safety but it’s on the trigger.

This man killed a woman who was no threat to him.

Killing of Justine Damond - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

She wasn’t American and thought the police would not waste a pretty blonde, and she found out what can happen when a pretty blonde slaps a cruiser trunk.

Startling a man with a Safe Action pistol can be fatal.

If the cop had a 1911 Condition Three he may still have Glocked her.

But it would have given his brain a a few mirco seconds to evaluate the threat.

A man with using a gun with no safety can shoot as quick as a thought.

If you are being shot at that’s wonderful.


If you’re startled you ought to slow down.

 

[telescopes]

You do realize that unlike a Glock - which is carried in condition one, a 1911 has both a grip and a physical thumb safety. Accidentally squeezing the trigger or squeezing the trigger without thinking first does nothing. The actual thumb safety has to be switched off. I see that you want to make an argument that condition one is unsafe. So, instead of arguing against it, which is a loosing argument - simply say it's not for you and leave it at that. No amount of non sequitur stories or tangental country video songs will reinforce or detract from the point you wish to make - which is, if I am not mistaken, condition one is not for you. And that is fine. It isn't for a lot of people. But that doesn't make it dangerous or unsafe.

 

[Brendan]

And I said Dick, why the half cock?

 

[Richmond B. Funkenhouser]

The quick draw McGraw mentality that is being preached these days is pretty alarming...

Considering that the average person apparently isn't able to handle a gas can that works.

I hate to agree with Van... Not a good situation.

We've got bloodthirsty retirees, I'm afraid.

Not that there's necessarily anything wrong with that. Just making an observation.

 

[Briar Lee]

You do realize that unlike a Glock - which is carried in condition one, a 1911 has both a grip and a physical thumb safety. Accidentally squeezing the trigger or squeezing the trigger without thinking first does nothing. The actual thumb safety has to be switched off. I see that you want to make an argument that condition one is unsafe. So, instead of arguing against it, which is a loosing argument - simply say it's not for you and leave it at that. No amount of non sequitur stories or tangental country video songs will reinforce or detract from the point you wish to make - which is, if I am not mistaken, condition one is not for you. And that is fine. It isn't for a lot of people. But that doesn't make it dangerous or unsafe.

Yes, there’s a grip safety on a 1911, for when your horse gets shot and you have a horse wreck, and a thumb safety for when your horse gets wounded and starts running towards Nathan Bedford Forest.

Otherwise it’s a Brass Radiator era Glock.

From the date of first issue until today, the 1911 is a side arm for cavalry, officers, cooks, and other ranks. It’s designed to be carried hammer down on an empty chamber.

In my retirement when my wife is little better I’m going to research the Hammons murder of 1913 in Cedar County.

I came on this:

Georgie Rufus Gannaway (1911-1929) - Find a Grave...

The son of Otis Gannaway and Gusta Curl, he was a farmer, and died as a result of accidently shooting himself in the stomach, according to his death certificate which was signed by his mother. ----------------------- Suggested edit: Georgie's mother - Gusta (Curl) Gannaway. She first married...

www.findagrave.com

The son of Otis Gannaway and Gusta Curl, he was a farmer, and died as a result of accidently shooting himself in the stomach, according to his death certificate which was signed by his mother.
-----------------------
Suggested edit: Georgie's mother - Gusta (Curl) Gannaway. She first married Otis Gannaway. He died age 26. Then Gusta married A. C. Hammons and raised his very young children.
(Contributor Ginger Spurgeon Chance (49527525).

Xxxxx

My mother and I used to watch Gusta Curl Gannaway Hammons hobble over with her cane, still radiantly beautiful in her nineties, to decorate the graves of her second mother in law but not that damned old James, who was mean, and had it coming to him!

James Clayton Hammons (1850-1913) - Find a Grave...

Son of Miller Hammons & Rebecca Harris.

www.findagrave.com

We knew that Gusty’s only son had died on Christmas Day when out with friends near Dunnegan, and Gusty claimed it was because he was crossing a fence and his 12 gauge shotgun went off.

But of course James Hammons death certificate reads he was a suicide.

Shot twice (or maybe three) times in the chest with a .22 while feeding hogs.



Mama would poke me and say go over there and ask Gusty, if she was there when they drew for the short straw.

Now, Doug, riddle me this.

If you carry Condition One and I carry Condition Three, and I come back from the fields and say Doug accidentally shot himself, poor Doug, who can doubt me?

But can you, try that?

Say poor Van, he must have accidentally racked his slide?.

Now, for extra credit, how did Andy of Mayberry command Deputy Fife to carry his Model 10?.

Now, in all earnest sincerity.

If you are carrying a deadly weapon for the express purpose of committing a justifiable or excusable homocide, you’d best not be able to shoot before you can think.

Racking that slide, is how the Israelites do it.

The Theory And Practice Of Israeli Carry

Let's look at what Israeli Carry is, why it was originally taught to special forces and why many instructors consider the practice outdated today.

www.ammoman.com

 

[Briar Lee]

The quick draw McGraw mentality that is being preached these days is pretty alarming...

Considering that the average person apparently isn't able to handle a gas can that works.

I hate to agree with Van... Not a good situation.

We've got bloodthirsty retirees, I'm afraid.

Not that there's necessarily anything wrong with that. Just making an observation.

Part of growing up hillbilly, was every little boy in the Ozarks plotted how to grow up and marry Pretty Miss Norma Jean.

For those who don’t know, she dumped Porter when Porter would not leave his wife.

Porter was so broken up over it, he hired Dolly Parton.

Every time I see a little vest pocket pistol I still think of Pretty Miss Norma Jean.

All of us who can remember Neil Armstrong waking on the moon live, and Nixon resigning and Spiro Agnew and WIN buttons, remember a society where only cops and robbers carried pistols.

The cop wore his on a belt and the bad guy, hid his.

Well, except Sgt Friday and his sidekick, they had the right to carry concealed.

An armed citizen can only use their deadly weapon for defense.

A law enforcement officer can only use a deadly weapon to restore law and order.

A soldier uses his openly displayed weapons to end a war, and restore peace. If he conceals his weapon he’s a spy or saboteur and gets shot if captured.

The Wehrmacht lost the war but its most famous foot soldier gave the world the Glock.

Gaston had personal memories of hordes of Allied soldiers overrunning the Reich.

He designed the perfect last ditch man killer.

As for me, let me play like I’m Elmer Keith in my golden years.

 

[telescopes]

It’s designed to be carried hammer down on an empty chamber.

Behind the lines and around the house - sure. But in a situation where awareness changes - no. Except for you - you are not suppose to carry it on condition one.

When I was in my 20s, I watched a group of men in the apartment parking lot outside my window begin to threaten a solo male. This was after one in the morning. The male pulled out his pistol when the men threatened to kill him. He pointed it at them and they all backed away. It got quiet and the solo man with the pistol said the following words, “Look, I don’t want any trouble.“

The leader for the group answered, “Then, why are you pointing a gun at us?”

The man replied stupidly, “I just wanted to scare you off me. I haven’t racked it yet .”

With that, the leader of the men walked up to the solo man and took the pistol out of his hand and they proceeded to beat the shit out of him. I had called the police who finally came and arrested some of the men.

So much for condition three. But thank goodness that solo man didn’t shoot himself.

There will be a lot you’ll respond to this - some of it will be unrelated story telling and of course there will be music videos. There will be should of statements and I am sure who knows what else. But the point is that these men backed off the moment he pulled out the gun. It took less than a second for them to take it out of his hand when they realized it was unchambered. In a stressful situation, unless you are trained and practiced, who knows how anyone will successfully execute. Condition One recognizes that we carry a gun for one purpose. And that isn’t to threaten, show off , or feel safe. It is to kill in the name of self defense. It’s protection at the price of the attacker’s life. If that bothers you, don’t carry. No one will judge you.

 

[Brad H]

Doesn't matter to me. I prefer the safety system on the 4 Springfield 9 mm I own. Glock never really fit my hand that well though I will acknowledge it is a very reliable tool.

 

[Pipke]

Considering that one can buy 80% Glock frames and build your own Glock clone, I'd say that the Glock is generic; Not in a bad way, but in the sense that it has unofficially earned the designation as a "type" like the 1911 has.