Francis Scott Key Bridge in Baltimore collapses.

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Briar Lee

Lifer
Sep 4, 2021
4,837
13,910
Humansville Missouri
Information on the pilot system:

The typical state-licensed pilot in the U.S. is the most highly trained mariner in the world. Pilots have either extensive deep-sea or tug experience before they enter pilot training programs or they go through a lengthy (four to seven years) apprenticeship program. In addition to extensive prior experience or detailed instruction in basic shiphandling, pilot trainees undergo long periods of route specific training under the guidance of experienced pilots. This hands-on training is supplemented with the latest in classroom instruction and simulator training. Once a pilot receives a license, he or she undergoes regular continuing training, including training in bridge resource management for pilots, emergency shiphandling, and new navigation technology, as well as other types of instruction and practice on full mission bridge simulators and manned models. Each state pilot is expected to be comfortable with the latest in navigation technology and ships' systems.

Competition
Each state limits the number of pilot licenses that it issues to the number required to maintain a safe and efficient pilotage service. There is no competition among state pilots. Each port or waterway area is served by one pilot association or one regulated rotation system. The pilotage system in the U.S. recognizes that there are important safety and efficiency reasons for not having competitive pilotage.
In the United States, compulsory pilotage is considered navigation safety regulation. Although the state pilot is not an employee of the government or the port, the pilot performs a public service in which the pilot is expected to protect the waters where he or she operates by preventing ships from engaging in unsafe operations. That means that pilots are expected to exercise independent professional judgment, which they would not be able to do if they had to compete for business.

 

VDL_Piper

Lifer
Jun 4, 2021
1,007
10,889
Tasmania, Australia
I'm not familiar enough with the port operations of Baltimore Harbor to give you an informed comment. Usage of guide boats, Pilots, & those sorta of things vary from port to port. I'd hate to make an assumption or speculate.

Here's an interesting article I found which some might enjoy reading. Business Insider - Modern Cargo Vessel vs. 45 Year Old Infrastructure
Thanks mate, fully understand and great article. I know here in Oz it's pilots to open water because cargo ship captains just don't know the waterways, harbours and ports like the pilot does, its a safety mechanism against this sort of thing. It will be very interesting what changes get implemented after the thousands of meetings that will be had about this incident.
 

Briar Lee

Lifer
Sep 4, 2021
4,837
13,910
Humansville Missouri
@Streeper541 this is such a tragedy but I note the vessel is under its own power and unattended by a tug, normal in enclosed waters for such a large vessel? I assume the vessel would have been in the hands of a pilot too since it's still in enclosed waters but I don't see a pilot vessel either, once again is this normal?

The pilot was on the bridge.


By chance, I suppose, Coxswain Urban Herschel Marlow from Humansville Missouri was at the helm of the USS Arizona on the morning of December 7, 1941 at Pearl Harbor.

(It wasn’t his fault.:) )


I’ve known about the incredible skills needed and devotion to service every pilot of a large ship has all of my life.

Had there not been a cascade of failures beyond the control of the pilot on the Dali she’d have never hit the Key Bridge.

The Dali was a Singapore flagged ship. No way there was a Singaporean in control of a 100,000 ton (four times larger than the USS Arizona) ship traveling nearly 10 knots at night in a narrow shipping channel transiting to the ocean. No way.

Only after the Dali had cleared the harbor would she have dropped the pilot to a little boat to return home.
 
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VDL_Piper

Lifer
Jun 4, 2021
1,007
10,889
Tasmania, Australia
The pilot was on the bridge.


By chance, I suppose, Coxswain Urban Herschel Marlow from Humansville Missouri was at the helm of the USS Arizona on the morning of December 7, 1941 at Pearl Harbor.

(It wasn’t his fault.:) )


I’ve known about the incredible skills needed and devotion to service every pilot of a large ship has all of my life.

Had there not been a cascade of failures beyond the control of the pilot on the Dali she’d have never hit the Key Bridge.

The Dali was a Singapore flagged ship. No way there was a Singaporean in control of a 100,000 ton (four times larger than the USS Arizona) ship traveling nearly 10 knots at night in a narrow shipping channel transiting to the ocean. No way.

Only after the Dali had cleared the harbor would she have dropped the pilot to a little boat to return home.
I have a mate who is a pilot here in the port at Burnie so I'm acutely aware or what they do, the training, commitment and knowledge they hold. It would be terribly hard if the vessel was incapacitated in any way and the only way to rectify a situation like that would of been tug's and a couple of large ones too because you don't stop 100,000 tones on a dime................
 

Briar Lee

Lifer
Sep 4, 2021
4,837
13,910
Humansville Missouri
I have a mate who is a pilot here in the port at Burnie so I'm acutely aware or what they do, the training, commitment and knowledge they hold. It would be terribly hard if the vessel was incapacitated in any way and the only way to rectify a situation like that would of been tug's and a couple of large ones too because you don't stop 100,000 tones on a dime................

The Dali had two Port of Maryland pilots at the bridge.

The ship is less than a decade old, is NeoPanaMax, 115,000 tons laden, and has just one MAN diesel that drives her at a service speed of 22 knots (one knot faster than the Arizona)




We are sure to know all about it, in time.
 
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jpmcwjr

Moderator
Staff member
May 12, 2015
24,755
27,362
Carmel Valley, CA
When she lost power, it may be that the rudder froze so a slight turn to starboard became a fatality; she should have been turning to port. She was way out of the outbound lane when it was too late.

And 8.5 knots seems awfully fast for conditions. Even if both anchors were delployed the second power was lost, it wouldn't have slowed 115,000 tons in time.

I am suprised that the rudder didn't have its own hydraulic power. (An assumption of course.)

How awful for the victims and family- but all of Maryland is now a mess.
 

Briar Lee

Lifer
Sep 4, 2021
4,837
13,910
Humansville Missouri
When she lost power, it may be that the rudder froze so a slight turn to starboard became a fatality; she should have been turning to port. She was way out of the outbound lane when it was too late.

And 8.5 knots seems awfully fast for conditions. Even if both anchors were delployed the second power was lost, it wouldn't have slowed 115,000 tons in time.

I am suprised that the rudder didn't have its own hydraulic power. (An assumption of course.)

How awful for the victims and family- but all of Maryland is now a mess.


However a huge barge looking thing she is, the Dali is an ocean going ship, capable of 22 knots cruise speed, using only a single fixed speed screw:
Xxxxx


Dali is propelled by a single low-speed two-stroke crosshead diesel enginecoupled to a fixed-pitch propeller. Its main engine, a license-manufactured 9-cylinderMAN-B&W 9S90ME-C9.2[9] unit manufactured by Hyundai Heavy Industries, is rated 41,480 kW (55,630 hp) at 82.5 rpm.[2] Its service speed is 22 knots (41 km/h; 25 mph).[4]

Xxxx

The Dali has to gain enough speed to steer at all. And she only has one screw. Without power she’s adrift.

There’s an ideal speed for ships in the channel and there were two pilots on the bridge.

The first job is to recover the victims.

The next is to get floating cranes in there to clear the shipping channel, and tug the Dali back to port. She has thousands upon thousands of fully loaded semi trucks worth of brand new exports, and the cargo on the ship may exceed the value of a brand new bridge.

Then they’ll put the bridge back up.

Xxxxz


Overall, the port handled 52.3 million tons of foreign cargo worth $80 billion, making it the nation's ninth busiest. The facility also handled 1.3 million tons of farm and construction machinery, the most of any U.S. port.

The port has grown busier as many manufacturers have moved production from Asia to North America because of supply-chain bottlenecks during the pandemic, Dai said.

GM, Ford and Stellantis — which makes Chrysler, Dodge, Jeep, Ram and Fiat vehicles — use the port mostly for exporting vehicles manufactured in North America to Europe, says Sam Fiorani, vice president of global vehicle forecasting at AutoForecast Solutions of Chester Springs, Pennsylvania. So any interruption to exports will, "require costly relocation of products to New Jersey, Virginia, or South Carolina. This will also hold up ships, already in short supply and now locked into the port, from keeping the trade routes flowing."


Xxxxx

Here in Missouri near Columbia, America is building a brand new, twin four lane bridge across the Missouri.

The total cost to the federal government is 81.2 million.



They blew the old bridge down in September of last year and there’s not a trace left in the river, the huge barges keep right on going.


Xxxx

The United States stands as a major global exporter, ranking second only to China. Due in part to the United States-Mexico-Canada Agreement (USMCA), Canada and Mexico were the top single-country export partners of the United States in 2023. Beyond these bilateral trade relationships, the U.S. also exported over 368 billion U.S. dollars worth of goods to the European Union during the same year. The balance of trade, which quantifies the value of imports and exports within a country's economy, is determined by subtracting the total value of imports from the total value of exports. U.S. exports represent approximately ten percent of its GDP, which amounted to about 3.01 trillion U.S. dollars in 2022.
 
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Briar Lee

Lifer
Sep 4, 2021
4,837
13,910
Humansville Missouri
This morning some things are a bit clearer.

Within seconds of the ship losing power the pilot in charge radioed a mayday call to the toll operators which immediately closed the bridge to new traffic. The disaster was four minutes later, the bridge was clear of all traffic except 8 immigrant construction workers, one unhurt, one critical, six missing and presumed drowned.

The crew desperately tried to restart the engine, which might explain all the black smoke.

If the port anchor was dropped, that likely explains the sudden swerve into the bridge, when the anchor bit.

So far the pilot is a hero.

Let’s see what further investigation brings.
 

captpat

Lifer
Dec 16, 2014
2,279
12,171
North Carolina
Many fail to appreciate what it takes to stop a vessel of +100,000 tons, it takes a long time (distance). Dropping the anchor(s) or trying to use tugs to stop it before impact would be like P*&&i9ng in the ocean to raise the level. Given the dynamics involved if they dropped the anchor the likely result would have been parting the anchor chain. Some have also stated that 8 knots was "very fast." Based on my years of experience in the Navy the speed was not unusual or excessive (there could be local restrictions that I'm unaware of as I never entered Baltimore Harbor). Depending on the current, wind, etc. slower is not always better you need to have water going past the rudder to maneuver the ship, the more water flow the more responsive the ship will be to the rudder. Regardless a ship of this size is not noted for its crisp and responsive handling.

I won't speculate about the root causes of the event from my rocking chair. The USCG and NTSB will take the next year or so to sort out what was an undoubtedly complex series of events.

Reporting this morning credits early Mayday calls in preventing even more loss of life.
 

Infantry23

Part of the Furniture Now
Nov 8, 2020
670
1,774
43
Smithsburg, Maryland
It's a great tragedy and the iconic bridge here in MD is no more. Hopefully it gets rebuilt quickly and in a safe manner. A couple things stand out to me.....
1) having traveled across that bridge recently I am keenly aware of how high it was (something that is hard to discern in the night-time video of the crash).
2) I am also keenly aware of how quickly life can change / be taken away :cry:
3) traffic patterns here will change DRASTICALLY. This is I-695, the Baltimore Beltway. This bridge is the fastest route for many to get around Bmore to Philly and points north. Now, one of the east coast's biggest and busiest shipping ports that delivers goods throughout the midwest is presumably closed for awhile and the beltway is hindered. Trucks can still go I-895 through the tunnel, but due to size restrictions much truck traffic will have to travel around Baltimore the opposite way. This is a big deal for Washington, DC too due to the amount of daily commuters between the Baltimore and DC metro area. It's a traffic mess.

I just hope that they can recover the remaining missing individuals to offer some closure to families.
 

pappymac

Lifer
Feb 26, 2015
3,305
4,362
A maritime casualty is when a ship suffers a debilitating circumstance such as loss of power, loss of propulsion, or even loss of steering. They occur far more frequently then I think the general public understands. Because of this, and the danger it presents, we trained for these things in the Coast Guard very regularly. This type of training is also part of the annual schedule of drills that all Mariners must perform onboard their ships.

My specialty, which I won't go deep into, was CBRNE and Counter Terrorism Operations/ Emergency Management. One of the response plans that I helped develop with FEMA about 15 years ago detailed a situation similar to this one, albeit without a bridge collapse...

My wife happens to be a 20-year Marine Safety Inspector with the Coast Guard, and if she was in Baltimore... this would be her case to investigate. Her and I both noticed some of the same things in the video, and have spoken to a few of our Coastie friends in Baltimore and the surrounding area. We all agree the incident, while tragic, seems to be a terrible accident which occurred at the exact worst location it could have. It seems to be the case that everyone on board the ship, at the VTS (Coast Guard manned vessel traffic system), a local traffic authorities did everything within their power to prevent catastrophe. It just wasn't enough.

I'm sure @pappymac will also chime in since he's also a former Coasties and may have some experience in this area. I'd like to hear what he has to say too.
Since you asked....

Accidents like this one happens more often than many people might think. Unless the immediate investigations turns up evidence that someone caused the vessel to loose power I say wait until the Marine Board of Investigation does it thing to figure out what is going on.

I haven't read all the media speculation yet so i don't know if anyone tried to drop an anchor like has been done in Hollywood a few times. Just because it can be done in the movies doesn't mean it can be done in real life. A vessel that size in motion would be hard to stop.

As for steering the vessel to avoid hitting the bridge, that again would be something the Marine investigators would study. The thing is, the steering on a vessel doesn't work like it does on a car or truck. The turn isn't done immediately because again, it is a large vessel and it takes time for to get a large mass to change its forward momentum. Another thing we don't know is if the lose of power was just the main engines or if it included the steering. No one is going to manually steer a vessel that size using just human power.

@Streeper541 - The last "major" case I worked before retiring in New Orleans was when a towboat pushing an empty barge hit a bridge crossing the Industrial Canal. Two spans of the bridge collasped onto the barge and two cars fell to the ground. One person was killed and two seriously injured.
 

jpmcwjr

Moderator
Staff member
May 12, 2015
24,755
27,362
Carmel Valley, CA
Dropping an anchor at speed (ca. 8 kgs.) onto a soft bottom river bed is indeed no more effective than pissing in the ocean. And it would not have caused the vessel to change course even a degree, unless it snagged on a large immoveable object.

One thing no newsies have talked about is the occupants of the several vehicles that plunged to the bottom. Toast. If anyone did escape, he would be on the news blathering about his experience.
 

Briar Lee

Lifer
Sep 4, 2021
4,837
13,910
Humansville Missouri
Dropping an anchor at speed (ca. 8 kgs.) onto a soft bottom river bed is indeed no more effective than pissing in the ocean. And it would not have caused the vessel to change course even a degree, unless it snagged on a large immoveable object.

One thing no newsies have talked about is the occupants of the several vehicles that plunged to the bottom. Toast. If anyone did escape, he would be on the news blathering about his experience.

The pilot was faced with sudden power loss on a 100,000 ton ship with a single engine and single screw.

I’m surprised they build container ships the size of super carriers with a single screw, but they do, and they run 22 knots laden.

If the single engine doesn’t immediately restart the only possible thing to do is lower all the anchors. It’s going to take a while to stop but anchors will slow her down some. Again, there are no other options.

MAN diesels powered the German pocket battleships. It’s a tested and reliable engine. But there are failures.

The authorities will explore the cause of engine failure. Was it bad fuel, bad maintenance, bad construction, or bad luck?

And the bridge designers and the maintenance of the bridge will be examined. Ships hit bridges. There are seismic and weather events. What can designers do for the replacement to avoid a repeat?

As for traffic on the bottom, those are likely early reports. That’s a toll bridge, only 1.5 miles between the booths.

With even a three minute warning and the reports are they had four, all the traffic would have been safely off the bridge.
 
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Briar Lee

Lifer
Sep 4, 2021
4,837
13,910
Humansville Missouri
I just can't shake the feeling that malfunctioning AI is involved here, in some capacity.

One of the best things about living in America is we are as first world as first world gets. We don’t have state media.

We have a free press.

The bad consequence of that today is coffee and barber shop rumors get reported as facts and spread far and wide by social media, and they do it for money.

Our closest thing to a state media is NPR, and they are free to report on the rumors.

 

Briar Lee

Lifer
Sep 4, 2021
4,837
13,910
Humansville Missouri
The United States Army Corp of Engineers is tasked with reopening the channel, salvaging the Dali and getting her clear, then getting that bridge back up, better than it was.


I’m reminded of one of the best county commissioners we’ve had in our county in my lifetime.

About thirty years ago I stuck my head in the Commissioner’s office and Bob was on the phone.

He hung up after awhile and said to me

We maintain 600 miles of gravel roads in this country with an expert road grader driver living in every house on one.:)
 
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