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LeafErikson

Lifer
Dec 7, 2021
2,479
21,838
Oregon
There are proposals in my borough of London to penalize Teslas and such owing to weight and extra wear and tear on infrastructure, through parking surcharges. The thinking is, if you can afford one of them, the surcharge is just loose change (albeit hundreds of pounds annually).
That makes sense. Penalize the people that have acquiesced to the UK’s desire to lower their global carbon emissions from 2% to 1%. It’s not like the UK outsources production of rare earths and steel to China and India so that they can do it at 10x the carbon emissions, right? That just wouldn’t make any sense!
 

Briar Lee

Lifer
Sep 4, 2021
5,390
15,401
Humansville Missouri
@Briar Lee i preferred your ruminating before you discovered the google AI assistant. And your other assistants brought you cherry tobacco too!

I used to shoot skeet every Wednesday and my buddies cussed and I cussed electric cars until one night a young man took out his phone and showed me, they use three times less energy per mile.

To set the hook he showed me how fast they were.

And I realized I was exactly like the old geezers that cussed fuel injection and engine computers.:)

Everything, not some of it, every thing, I ever believed about electric cars was dead wrong.

To defend myself, years ago wind energy was the most expensive, the batteries were insanely costly, as were the cars and the range was miserable.

Xxxxx
The Tesla Model 3 is the cheapest Tesla available. The 2025 model starts at $44,130.

Features:
  • Range: The Model 3 has a range of 272 to 341 miles depending on the trim.

  • Performance: The Model 3 can go from 0 to 60 mph in 3.1 seconds.

    • Safety: The Model 3 has active safety features like automatic emergency braking.
    • Autopilot: The Model 3's Autopilot feature can steer, accelerate, and brake automatically within its lane.
    • Charging: Tesla has a network of Superchargers for charging the Model 3.
Tax credits:

    • The Model 3 Long Range and Model 3 Performance variants qualify for a $7,500 federal electric vehicle tax credit.
    • The base standard range RWD model is not eligible for the tax credit.
Xxxx


There is a reason Elon Musk is the richest man in the history of the world.

And I’m just ashamed it took me so long to see why.

And the little things weigh a thousand pounds less than my Suburban:

The curb weight of a Tesla Model 3 varies depending on the model trim:

  • Model 3 Standard Range Plus: The lightest trim, weighing 3,862 lbs
  • Model 3 Long Range: Weighs 4,034 lbs
  • Model 3 Performance: Weighs 4,054 lbs
 
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woodsroad

Lifer
Oct 10, 2013
13,278
23,360
SE PA USA
I
I do not own an EV and don't consider myself a fanboy for them. However, if you want to make comparisons to gas vehicles, I suggest you look here


In particular, look at the study from the Argonne National Laboratory regarding lifetime greenhouse gas emissions for both types.

As for road taxes, we are already seeing proposals for mileage-based taxing in my area. One of the problems I have with that idea is that out of state drivers will not be paying it.
I hate to sound like a low information wingnut, but history has taught me to be highly skeptical of any information that the government wants you to see.
 

Briar Lee

Lifer
Sep 4, 2021
5,390
15,401
Humansville Missouri
I

I hate to sound like a low information wingnut, but history has taught me to be highly skeptical of any information that the government wants you to see.

That’s why I learned to look up stuff myself when my mother had my father sign a check for the 1963 World Book Encyclopedia set I still own today, minus the book S.

My best friend Johnny borrowed it for a book report. We still look for it in the remains of his home.:)

Johnny grew up to be an educator, and taught thousands of little hillbillies to look stuff up, not for the answer you want, but the truth.

Whenever I’d ask a question, my mother had me fetch the proper World Book. It never lied. It was the AI Google of 1963.

Xxxx

As of the fourth quarter of 2023, there were about 3.3 million electric vehicles (EVs) in the United States. This is a significant increase from 2021, when there were 1.3 million EVs.

EV adoption by state
  • California has the highest number of EVs, with over 36% of the country's EVs registered there.

  • Other states with high EV adoption rates include Washington, Hawaii, Oregon, and the District of Columbia.

  • States with low EV adoption rates include North Dakota, Mississippi, Wyoming, South Dakota, and West Virginia.

EV sales and trends
  • In 2023, over one million EVs were sold in the United States, a 56% increase from 2022.

  • The success of Tesla has helped attract new players to the U.S. EV market.

  • The National Renewable Energy Laboratory predicts that there could be 30 million to 42 million EVs on U.S. roads by 2030
Xxxxx

When there are 30 million electric cars there will still be over 250 million gas cars on the road.

Xxxx
In 2022, there were 283.4 million registered vehicles in the United States, including passenger cars, trucks, motorcycles, buses, and other vehicles. This was an increase from 282.355 million vehicles in 2021.
Xxxx

Buggies and cars coexisted on the roads until finally nobody’s wife would let their husband haul her around in a *^}|* buggy!.:)

When the used car lots are chock full of used cars, and some operate for 4 cents a mile and no gasoline and some for 12 cents to 20 cents and need gasoline, the gas cars are going to die as dead as big block gas hog station wagons.

Mama absolutely will not pump expensive gasoline in her buggy when her neighbor drives by and waves from her electric E Ford.

Human nature has not changed since Eve ate that apple, and it never will.

My mother and father both said they’d see old bachelors driving buggies way up into the thirties until the Japanese bombed Pearl Harbor,

Then they bought a car to use their gas ration stamps.

The change over from gas to electric will take decades.

Lord, let me own just one slow one, that will go from zero to sixty in three seconds flat.:)
 

Briar Lee

Lifer
Sep 4, 2021
5,390
15,401
Humansville Missouri
You mean to tell me that our government didn’t spend $472.6m of taxpayer dollars to spread the truth? Well, I’ll be darned.

Google is your friend:

Xxxx
WASHINGTON (AP) — President Donald Trump on Tuesday talked up a joint venture investing up to $500 billion for infrastructure tied to artificial intelligence by a new partnership formed by OpenAI, Oracle and SoftBank.

The new entity, Stargate, will start building out data centers and the electricity generation needed for the further development of the fast-evolving AI in Texas, according to the White House. The initial investment is expected to be $100 billion and could reach five times that sum.

“It’s big money and high quality people,” said Trump, adding that it’s “a resounding declaration of confidence in America’s potential” under his new administration.

Xxxxx

Those are fat cat billionaires investing money they got from us’ns not the dad blasted gubbermint.:)

And I read today that group bid 97 billion to jump start AI.

Xxxx
Elon Musk is leading a group of investors in a $97.4 billion bid to take control of OpenAI, the artificial intelligence company that operates ChatGPT.

In a post on social media, OpenAI CEO Sam Altman responded, "[N]o thank you but we will buy twitter for $9.74 billion if you want," referring to the social media app Musk bought for $44 billion in 2022.

Musk's offer to buy ChatGPT was reported first by the Wall Street Journal.

Xxxxx

Just think how rich those electric cars have made Elon. He can write big checks to the gubbermint to get publicity. They’ll let him run DOGE. That’s power!

Spend 44 billion for Twitter and destroy it, and still be the richest man in all recorded history. That’s nerve!


He’s even attacked our penny! .:)

My favorite thing he’s done, is he can call up Johnny Depp’s ex wife Amber Heard any time he likes, and she never says one bad word about Elon.:)


Xxxxx

Below is complete data on Tesla annual production from 2018 to 2024.

YearProductionYoY Growth
2018254,530/
2019365,23243%
2020509,73740%
2021930,42283%
20221,369,61147%
20231,845,98535%
20241,773,443-4%

There have been 7,048,960 Tesla models produced in the past seven years.

Xxxx

Elon does have a problem though.

Ford, GM, and Chrysler have been making car bodies for over one hundred years and wow are they good at it.

Elon grew to be the richest man since the Roman generals but he doesn’t have any patents on his electric cars.

Here comes the others!

 

BingBong

Lifer
Apr 26, 2024
1,790
7,780
London UK
Is that just some really f’d up thinking? They want everyone to drive an EV, regardless of income, so that they can demonize them as “rich”?
I just went back to the article in the local rag; it's the Green party pushing for this, ironically. It's something that has already begun in Paris, which is where the idea came from. As arch-conservative historian David Starkey says, "all bad ideas are French".
 

woodsroad

Lifer
Oct 10, 2013
13,278
23,360
SE PA USA
That’s why I learned to look up stuff myself when my mother had my father sign a check for the 1963 World Book Encyclopedia set I still own today, minus the book S.

My best friend Johnny borrowed it for a book report. We still look for it in the remains of his home.:)

Johnny grew up to be an educator, and taught thousands of little hillbillies to look stuff up, not for the answer you want, but the truth.

Whenever I’d ask a question, my mother had me fetch the proper World Book. It never lied. It was the AI Google of 1963.

Xxxx

As of the fourth quarter of 2023, there were about 3.3 million electric vehicles (EVs) in the United States. This is a significant increase from 2021, when there were 1.3 million EVs.

EV adoption by state
  • California has the highest number of EVs, with over 36% of the country's EVs registered there.

  • Other states with high EV adoption rates include Washington, Hawaii, Oregon, and the District of Columbia.

  • States with low EV adoption rates include North Dakota, Mississippi, Wyoming, South Dakota, and West Virginia.

EV sales and trends
  • In 2023, over one million EVs were sold in the United States, a 56% increase from 2022.

  • The success of Tesla has helped attract new players to the U.S. EV market.

  • The National Renewable Energy Laboratory predicts that there could be 30 million to 42 million EVs on U.S. roads by 2030
Xxxxx

When there are 30 million electric cars there will still be over 250 million gas cars on the road.

Xxxx
In 2022, there were 283.4 million registered vehicles in the United States, including passenger cars, trucks, motorcycles, buses, and other vehicles. This was an increase from 282.355 million vehicles in 2021.
Xxxx

Buggies and cars coexisted on the roads until finally nobody’s wife would let their husband haul her around in a *^}|* buggy!.:)

When the used car lots are chock full of used cars, and some operate for 4 cents a mile and no gasoline and some for 12 cents to 20 cents and need gasoline, the gas cars are going to die as dead as big block gas hog station wagons.

Mama absolutely will not pump expensive gasoline in her buggy when her neighbor drives by and waves from her electric E Ford.

Human nature has not changed since Eve ate that apple, and it never will.

My mother and father both said they’d see old bachelors driving buggies way up into the thirties until the Japanese bombed Pearl Harbor,

Then they bought a car to use their gas ration stamps.

The change over from gas to electric will take decades.

Lord, let me own just one slow one, that will go from zero to sixty in three seconds flat.:)
EV’s have major weaknesses that the public won’t overlook, no matter how hard the government tries. In time, some of these faults will be overcome, but others will remain. In most areas of the country, an electric car is still powered by fossil fuel. Range will always be less that gas or diesel and EV’s will be more expensive. EV’s might work for some people, but without government subsidies, mandates and obfuscation, the American public isn’t buying.
 
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cosmicfolklore

Moderator
Staff member
Aug 9, 2013
35,756
84,149
Between the Heart of Alabama and Hot Springs NC
EV’s have major weaknesses that the public won’t overlook, no matter how hard the government tries. In time, some of these faults will be overcome, but others will remain. In most areas of the country, and electric car is still powered by fossil fuel. Range will always be less that gas or diesel and EV’s will be more expensive. EV’s might work for some people, but without government subsidies, mandates and obfuscation, the American public isn’t buying.
Caterpillar put a hidden electronic kill switch on their newer model tractors that they sell with a contract that says that you will ONLY ever use their service department for all repairs and servicing, and if you decide to change a filter yourself, the computer locks up the engine with the kill switch.
Musk is doing this with his cars. Sure sure, wouldn't it be nice if someone steals your car to just turn the switch off on it. But, with a world leaders bringing us closer to a Mad Max world, you can't be certain who, what, when, where, or why someone at HQ will decide to flip a switch on you.

Briar Lee's numbers seem a tad off from what I find when I Google EV sales... but despite that, I will avoid buying an EV till I am down to choosing between a goat cart and one of those terrible contraptions.
 

Briar Lee

Lifer
Sep 4, 2021
5,390
15,401
Humansville Missouri
Caterpillar put a hidden electronic kill switch on their newer model tractors that they sell with a contract that says that you will ONLY ever use their service department for all repairs and servicing, and if you decide to change a filter yourself, the computer locks up the engine with the kill switch.
Musk is doing this with his cars. Sure sure, wouldn't it be nice if someone steals your car to just turn the switch off on it. But, with a world leaders bringing us closer to a Mad Max world, you can't be certain who, what, when, where, or why someone at HQ will decide to flip a switch on you.

Briar Lee's numbers seem a tad off from what I find when I Google EV sales... but despite that, I will avoid buying an EV till I am down to choosing between a goat cart and one of those terrible contraptions.

We aren’t there yet, to electric cars for everybody.

The electric car and the gas car fought toe to toe until the electric starter. Then Mama could drive the gasoline buggy.

All the car makers kept a provision for the crank until 1948, anyway.:)

But once Mama stomps her electric and goes zero to sixty in three seconds Mama won’t allow no more gasoline buggies on the place, no she will surely not.:)

If those women could have those little children without us we’d all still be mounted on good, fast horses.:)

They will be cheaper to make, much, much cheaper to operate, insanely quicker , and last thirty to forty years or even a lifetime.

And instead of gas stations they’d need a parking space overnight, for 99% of fueling.

By then all the roofs will be shingled with solar panels.

Your car will charge your house if your house can’t charge your car because the power line got took out in a storm.

Boys will still circle the blocks, and girls will still wink at them, the world won’t change any at all.

No government on earth could stop it, if they tried.

What just amazes me, is Miss Charlotte predicted all this in 1971, minus the windmills, during the lecture following the Wonderful One Hoss Shay.

Back then, America had a French attitude about nuclear power.:)


I sometimes wonder why the Lord blessed me beyond measurement, to grow up a half mile South of Bug Tussle.
 
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lraisch

Part of the Furniture Now
Jul 4, 2011
767
1,619
Granite Falls, Washington state
EV’s have major weaknesses that the public won’t overlook, no matter how hard the government tries. In time, some of these faults will be overcome, but others will remain. In most areas of the country, an electric car is still powered by fossil fuel. Range will always be less that gas or diesel and EV’s will be more expensive. EV’s might work for some people, but without government subsidies, mandates and obfuscation, the American public isn’t buying.
"You’re crazy if you think this fool contraption you’ve been wasting your time on will ever displace the horse.” said the banker to America's first automobile manufacturer.

EVs with 400 mile range are already available. A Corvette with an 18.5 gallon tank can go 293 miles in city driving.

Even though in my area the price of electricity is cheaper than gas, I am not planning on buying an EV. Like all cars they have gotten too expensive. My last new car purchase cost 10 times what my first new car cost me, many years ago. Unfortunately, gas costs 14 times as much.

As renewable energy becomes more available and battery technology improves, I expect that someday this conversation will seem as archaic as the horseless carriage. (Should I sell my stock in buggy whip makers?)
 
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Briar Lee

Lifer
Sep 4, 2021
5,390
15,401
Humansville Missouri
I'm also not comfortable setting on top of a stack of lithium bombs.
Yeh, I don't have a problem with nuclear energy. The negative is that the waste lasts forever, like herpes. But, that is why we have Missouri. puffy

If the gasoline car, with twenty gallons of highly explosive gasoline just a few feet from all those spark plugs, and that needed fueled from ten thousand gallon tanks of fuel that will take out an entire block, was invented today——

Would the do gooders allow it?.:)


The problem with nuclear power is another lecture of runner up Miss Missouri Miss Charlotte.

The law of large numbers.

Ever drive by a gas station, and the billboard has under the gas price the Super Lotto?

It might reach a billion dollars, the ticket is only one dollar.

Then what happens?

Somebody hits it.

The odds against a nuclear plant melting down are billions and billions to one,

And that one, is called Fukushima.:)
 
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woodsroad

Lifer
Oct 10, 2013
13,278
23,360
SE PA USA
"You’re crazy if you think this fool contraption you’ve been wasting your time on will ever displace the horse.” said the banker to America's first automobile manufacturer.

EVs with 400 mile range are already available. A Corvette with an 18.5 gallon tank can go 293 miles in city driving.

Even though in my area the price of electricity is cheaper than gas, I am not planning on buying an EV. Like all cars they have gotten too expensive. My last new car purchase cost 10 times what my first new car cost me, many years ago. Unfortunately, gas costs 14 times as much.

As renewable energy becomes more available and battery technology improves, I expect that someday this conversation will seem as archaic as the horseless carriage. (Should I sell my stock in buggy whip makers?)
Absolutely.
But, here and now, that’s not the case. Recharge stations are few and far between in most areas, and those are fast chargers, which reduce battery life.

Will sustainable, non-fossil fuels ever be able to supplant dinofuel? It’s doubtful it will happen anytime soon, but eventually, yes.

Another thought: What do apartment dwellers and city folks do to charge their EV?
 
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cosmicfolklore

Moderator
Staff member
Aug 9, 2013
35,756
84,149
Between the Heart of Alabama and Hot Springs NC
If the gasoline car, with twenty gallons of highly explosive gasoline just a few feet from all those spark plugs,
WTF kinda car do you drive? Have you ever tried to get gasoline to explode? It's not easy.

If we ever stop pumping oil, what will they make the plastic parts out of for the EV's? We are over 30 years away from having the electrical infrastructure to get enough power on the grid to charge that many cars, and when we do, it's not going to be pretty.

This was all just a hippie daydream, Gandpa Sunshine. But, if we ever do go all EV, then we will have lost the last drop of freedom we have as Americans. Might as well just all ride public transportation like commies if we no longer own our own cars, but just lease them like borrowed library books. I don't want to live in that swine infested commie land myself.
 

cosmicfolklore

Moderator
Staff member
Aug 9, 2013
35,756
84,149
Between the Heart of Alabama and Hot Springs NC
I see it all the time on TV.
I know, gasoline leaking out, guy tosses cigarette onto the ground, BOOM. You can actually thump cigarette butts directly into a bucket of gas, and they all just go out. This is why we've never had someone build a gasoline bomb to take out a city block. The shit just doesn't explode. Lithium though.... that's a different story.
 

dd57chevy

Can't Leave
Apr 7, 2023
413
1,184
Iowa
EV adoption by state
  • California has the highest number of EVs, with over 36% of the country's EVs registered there.

  • Other states with high EV adoption rates include Washington, Hawaii, Oregon, and the District of Columbia.
As someone who is admittedly low information re: EV's , I'm curious ........4 out of 5 of those states would be considered mild climates . DC maybe a little less so .
How well do these batteries hold a charge in places that have genuinely cold winters ?
 
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