Expensive Pipes--To Each His Own

[Sweet Home Alabama]

Seeing an awful lot of similarity there and not seeing a whole lot of hand tools.?

www.youtube.com/watch?v=QxkJWzQ5IQw&t=229s

I wouldnt expect hand tools. It is a factory.
Martin Guitars
(1) A Look At The Martin Guitar Factory - Bing video

Zippo Lighters
(1) How a Zippo Lighter is Manufactured. - Bing video

 

[jguss]

Not

Far be it from me to deny you your pursuit of self destruction.

Not denying my right to destroy myself seems like pretty tepid support. A real friend would help out.

 

[jpberg]

A perfect block of briar (or even a near perfect one) would cost 3x one of Jack Howell's pipes by itself. Uncarved. Howell's briar, from what I have seen, isn't all that great. His carving looks masterful though.

The material itself has more impact on the "smokeability" than the crafting of the pipe. Don't get me wrong, the crafting is critical (bad crafting can ruin a great piece of briar). So much goes into the selection of briar and its treatment after selection. The age of the plant, where it was grown, how the briar is cured, etc. It determines the longevity, coolness, and aesthetic of the pipe. A nice, tight, uniform grain will *generally* smoke cooler, have less inclusions, last longer, etc. Big name pipemakers have access to top-of-the-line briar, which is where a lot of that price tag comes from.

When I look at expensive pipes, I am almost exclusively looking at the briar.

Say a Jack Howell costs 400 bucks.
Tell me about these 1200 blocks of briar.

 

[smokeymo]

Say a Jack Howell costs 400 bucks.
Tell me about these 1200 blocks of briar.

Oh I'm sure they exist

 

[jpberg]

Oh I'm sure they exist

Sure.
Im curious what standards you’re using to determine your opinion on the quality of Howells briar.

 

[smokeymo]

Sure.
Im curious what standards you’re using to determine your opinion on the quality of Howells briar.

First of all let me say that I don't think Jack is using shitty briar haha

As for my standards:
- grain pattern (tight grain, as opposed to far apart. small, tightly packed birdseye as opposed to large and spaced out)
- grain consistency (is the pattern consistent throughout the pipe, or do you have mottling in one or more areas)
- stain and contrast (dark stain? natural stain? dark stains hide less-desirable briar better)
- bowl carbonization (hides minor inclusions and soft-spots in the chamber, not a frequent issue but a possible one)
- briar fills (this is almost exclusively aesthetic, no pipemaker worth their salt is filling a major defect and selling it)

Example: Both pipes below are beautifully crafted. Personally, the Howell (the second one) speaks to me more. I would guess the Autograph is a better-quality briar though. More uniform grain structure, tighter grain structure. I'm not certain how or if Jack cures briar that he receives. Savinelli air cures their higher end pipes and that is a whole process. But it helps with the longevity of briar. Also, increases cost. This is just based on two photos. I really appreciate that Jack doesn't carbonize his chambers. He does seem to blast/rusticate the majority of his pipes. Whether that is preference or an indicator to briar quality, I can't say.

 

[georged]

Just when I thought greater heights of pompous jack-assery couldn't be reached, the Net receives this gift.

 

[hauntedmyst]

In all of my years on here, I haven't heard someone be so insulting over someone's post of a picture of a pipe, except once, and that person was dogpiled. I'm sorry, but when someone posts a picture of their pipe or pipes, you should try to control saying such a rude and obnoxious remark. Not even funny in the least.

I'm not one much for etiquette but I've never understood the need to bash another man's pipe. (Assuming it doesn't look like a persons private parts. Then all bets are off.) Just be happy someone else is happy and another pipe was purchased in an ever dwindling market.

 

[macaroni]

I'm enjoying reading everyone's posts here. So, with that in mind, I searched out earlier threads in which Dr. Hanna's writing on this was discussed.

I found a thread from 2014 - 2016 and enjoyed reading it, and laughingly read and reread Cosmicfolklore's @cosmicfolklore post from almost 6 years ago, "These days, I'd rather drink a tall warm glass of spit than have to discuss a Fred Hannah excerpt." Thanks Cosmic for that post back then and all your other ones in that thread (and here). Many others who are still active were great, too including most especially interesting to me--those from @sablebrush52 and @warren. Thanks, Friends for this blast from the past--you guys are great!

kindly,
mike

 

[cosmicfolklore]

I'm enjoying reading everyone's posts here. So, with that in mind, I searched out earlier threads in which Dr. Hanna's writing on this was discussed.

I found a thread from 2014 - 2016 and enjoyed reading it, and laughingly read and reread Cosmicfolklore's @cosmicfolklore post from almost 6 years ago, "These days, I'd rather drink a tall warm glass of spit than have to discuss a Fred Hannah excerpt." Thanks Cosmic for that post back then and all your other ones in that thread (and here). Many others who are still active were great, too including most especially interesting to me--those from @sablebrush52 and @warren. Thanks, Friends for this blast from the past--you guys are great!

kindly,
mike

Did I say that? Ha ha… I need to write this stuff down.

 

[georged]

Before you ask, yes, Cosmic drinks warm spit.

All the time, and from many sources. Donkeys, dogs, llamas, you name it.

I know because I've visited him many times and he's never NOT been working on a huge stein or tumbler of warm spit.

Yes, it's gross, but these are enlightened times, OK? All sorts of changes regarding expectations are underway. If men can be women and women can be men, well, soon giraffes will be ostriches, the sky will be a nice tangerine color, gravity will be optional, and so forth.

Get used to it.

Alrighty, then...

 

[cosmicfolklore]

Before you ask, yes, Cosmic drinks warm spit.

All the time, and from many sources. Donkeys, dogs, llamas, you name it.

I know because I've visited him many times and he's never NOT been working on a huge stein or tumbler of warm spit.

Yes, it's gross, but these are enlightened times, OK? All sorts of changes regarding expectations are underway. If men can be women and women can be men, well, soon giraffes will be ostriches, the sky will be a nice tangerine color, gravity will be optional, and so forth.

Get used to it.

Alrighty, then...

Shucks! Thank you for standing up for me. I appreciate that.

 

[craiginthecorn]

A perfect block of briar (or even a near perfect one) would cost 3x one of Jack Howell's pipes by itself. Uncarved. Howell's briar, from what I have seen, isn't all that great. His carving looks masterful though.

There is no doubt that the blocks that are sold to make the most expensive, beautifully grained pipes are significantly more expensive than the ebauchon blocks used in many factory pipes. However, the difference in cost between the cheapest blocks and the most expensive are nowhere near the level you have suggested.

Let me share this excerpt from an email I received from the late Ken Barnes, who was well-known for his ability to pull straight grain from a block.

"Was it you Craig who was talking about the rarity of straight grain clean Canadians? If it was, here is an extract from a friend of mine who owns a briar saw mill and is a briar burl cutter.

Before I receive the top quality plateaux (i.e. super blocks) it is interesting to note how much briar needs to be cut to yield one super block of plateau.

This is a breakdown from a briar sawmill.

“we cut more or less from 90,000 to 120,000 kg a year of fresh briar and only 30% will be blocks for pipes (70% wood for fire); of these 30% of blocks yielded, 70% will be ebouchons for factory production (small blocks for making catalogue shapes – ‘series turning’) and 30% plateaux in 3 grading: the 30% plateaux yield is: TOP level I super 10%; II grade good 30%: III grade for sandblast 60%.

If I consider only the top level plateaux (10% of the total plateaux) 90% are for brandy (apple) and dublin shapes and free-style and perhaps only 10% for billiards and if the shank is long only a few blocks a year for a canadian. On the low grade you have more possibility to find a canadian and a billiard shape but the quality of the wood is not as nice as the first grade.”

So, that is how rare Super blocks are – costing me about $70 per piece landed in the UK – The seventy pieces that I have accumulated in the past year are gorgeous and I am due to receive another 10-20 blocks this week. (I ordered these in January!)

Ken"

So, $70 for the very rarest, finest, and necessarily largest blocks, due to the long shank of a Canadian. Even at double that $70 price, it's nowhere near $900-$1200 that you suggest. Looking at Manno Extra Extra grade plateau blocks from Rawkrafted, they are at most $65. Asking more for a "perfect" block is absurd. No one knows what flaws may lie within. That"perfect" block may end up a beautiful, but significantly less valuable sandblasted pipe.

Even if you have the very finest block, making the most of its potential is difficult. Cutting a block isn't like cutting a board. Unlike a tree trunk, which has largely predictable grain patterns which make maximizing its grain a relatively straightforward affair, briar grows in what is essentially a ball. The grain is not really straight. It's radial. A block may contain a beautiful straight grain pipe, but finding that pipe in that section of block takes time, experience, intuition, and skill.

It's what the pipemaker does with that block that creates the lion's share of the difference in value and price from a lesser pipe.

 

[mortonbriar]

Opinions are like briar grain, some are straight, and others have more of a bird's eye view.

 

[georged]

Craig is 100% spot-on overall, and in every detail.

 

[sablebrush52]

There is no doubt that the blocks that are sold to make the most expensive, beautifully grained pipes are significantly more expensive than the ebauchon blocks used in many factory pipes. However, the difference in cost between the cheapest blocks and the most expensive are nowhere near the level you have suggested.

Let me share this excerpt from an email I received from the late Ken Barnes, who was well-known for his ability to pull straight grain from a block.

"Was it you Craig who was talking about the rarity of straight grain clean Canadians? If it was, here is an extract from a friend of mine who owns a briar saw mill and is a briar burl cutter.

Before I receive the top quality plateaux (i.e. super blocks) it is interesting to note how much briar needs to be cut to yield one super block of plateau.

This is a breakdown from a briar sawmill.

“we cut more or less from 90,000 to 120,000 kg a year of fresh briar and only 30% will be blocks for pipes (70% wood for fire); of these 30% of blocks yielded, 70% will be ebouchons for factory production (small blocks for making catalogue shapes – ‘series turning’) and 30% plateaux in 3 grading: the 30% plateaux yield is: TOP level I super 10%; II grade good 30%: III grade for sandblast 60%.

If I consider only the top level plateaux (10% of the total plateaux) 90% are for brandy (apple) and dublin shapes and free-style and perhaps only 10% for billiards and if the shank is long only a few blocks a year for a canadian. On the low grade you have more possibility to find a canadian and a billiard shape but the quality of the wood is not as nice as the first grade.”

So, that is how rare Super blocks are – costing me about $70 per piece landed in the UK – The seventy pieces that I have accumulated in the past year are gorgeous and I am due to receive another 10-20 blocks this week. (I ordered these in January!)

Ken"

So, $70 for the very rarest, finest, and necessarily largest blocks, due to the long shank of a Canadian. Even at double that $70 price, it's nowhere near $900-$1200 that you suggest. Looking at Manno Extra Extra grade plateau blocks from Rawkrafted, they are at most $65. Asking more for a "perfect" block is absurd. No one knows what flaws may lie within. That"perfect" block may end up a beautiful, but significantly less valuable sandblasted pipe.

Even if you have the very finest block, making the most of its potential is difficult. Cutting a block isn't like cutting a board. Unlike a tree trunk, which has largely predictable grain patterns which make maximizing its grain a relatively straightforward affair, briar grows in what is essentially a ball. The grain is not really straight. It's radial. A block may contain a beautiful straight grain pipe, but finding that pipe in that section of block takes time, experience, intuition, and skill.

It's what the pipemaker does with that block that creates the lion's share of the difference in value and price from a lesser pipe.

Yep. I got that same breakdown from Ken. Keep in mind that a cutter, like Ken, sets up the block for the carver to finish. Cutters don't often get the credit they merit for the pipes we enjoy.
Watching Ken cut and shape a block on a table saw was amazing.

 

[Grangerous]

My wife enjoys leather designer handbags. They cost thousands. I ask what makes these so special? She says the leather. I roll my eyes.

Yes the leather is soft and there are no imperfections — better not be! But really?

It’s the same with most things. If someone is “into” a certain thing, they’ll “justify” the expense.

But as far as function, a starting priced $30,000 trap shotgun from Krieghoff will not break clays better than my $2000 Browning Citori. Engraving and Grade of the Walnut used in the stock? Craftsmanship? Whatever? It’s only a shotgun.

As for thousand dollar tobacco pipes? I roll my eyes.

Lighting my Cob now.

 

[Simmerdown☕️]

Who also make bulldogs and rhodesians that I find horrid but those who have made me pipes make a clean airway and chamfered tenons.



I'll never touch a cob again but aesthetics only go as far as ergonomics. I usually prefer a rough finish so as to not loose my grip on a pipe and being that I suffer from carpal tunnel in both wrists, large bowls are a bonus. They still get dumped onto the box at the end of the day.

View attachment 119573

What’s up with this “I’ll never touch a cob again” stuff??‍️

 

[Sweet Home Alabama]

My wife enjoys leather designer handbags. They cost thousands. I ask what makes these so special? She says the leather. I roll my eyes.

Yes the leather is soft and there are no imperfections — better not be! But really?

It’s the same with most things. If someone is “into” a certain thing, they’ll “justify” the expense.

But as far as function, a starting priced $30,000 trap shotgun from Krieghoff will not break clays better than my $2000 Browning Citori. Engraving and Grade of the Walnut used in the stock? Craftsmanship? Whatever? It’s only a shotgun.

As for thousand dollar tobacco pipes? I roll my eyes.

Lighting my Cob now.

In all my experience on this forum I have never seen such a flagrant attack on $1000 pipes. Shame on you!!! LOL!!!!!!

 

[Simmerdown☕️]

The only pipe I’d spend more than 300$ on would be a nice Turkish Meerschaum purely out of preference. Other than that, I love to appreciate Artisan briar craftsmanship, but will likey never buy one as I like Meers & MMs mostly.

I’m pretty good at smoking a cob. The draw is wide open, and I have learned to adjust my cadence to most any pipe through the first 5 minutes of the bowl. Also, I’m not that fancy and don’t see the need for paying ?s for an item when a 20$ pipe will do just fine.

However, I highly encourage anyone whose interested in briar to get together with an Craftsman/Artisan. Get on a commission list and have at it. ?️