Expensive Pipes--To Each His Own

[frozenchurchwarden]

You do realize that many of my pipes were totally blind commissions.

Blind commissions from people you trust to make an attractive pipe.
The proper test is can you enjoy smoking a pipe that you know was crafted to have no aesthetic value?
If you're enough of a fan of Cobs then the answer is going to be a firm "yes", but that still doesn't mean you buy pipes with no consideration for aesthetics.

 

[smokeymo]

There's a limit to the quality of the briar. That's assuming the absolute perfect briar could be selected from a raw batch. And there's only so much a carver can do to make a pipe smoke better. When you go over the $350 to $500 range, I don't believe you're paying for a better smoking instrument. Jack.Howell is a member here and a very highly regarded carver whose pipe sell in the $300 to $450 range. Jack's pipes smoke as good as the best pipes I own and better than most. For someone to maintain a certain $1000 pipe smokes 3 x better than one of Jack's is absurd.

When you pay over a thousand, you're mostly paying for the name IMHO. I'd say aesthetics but I don't find many of those high end Danish pipes very appealing.

A perfect block of briar (or even a near perfect one) would cost 3x one of Jack Howell's pipes by itself. Uncarved. Howell's briar, from what I have seen, isn't all that great. His carving looks masterful though.

The material itself has more impact on the "smokeability" than the crafting of the pipe. Don't get me wrong, the crafting is critical (bad crafting can ruin a great piece of briar). So much goes into the selection of briar and its treatment after selection. The age of the plant, where it was grown, how the briar is cured, etc. It determines the longevity, coolness, and aesthetic of the pipe. A nice, tight, uniform grain will *generally* smoke cooler, have less inclusions, last longer, etc. Big name pipemakers have access to top-of-the-line briar, which is where a lot of that price tag comes from.

When I look at expensive pipes, I am almost exclusively looking at the briar.

 

[Chasing Embers]

Blind commissions from people you trust to make an attractive pipe.

Who also make bulldogs and rhodesians that I find horrid but those who have made me pipes make a clean airway and chamfered tenons.

If you're enough of a fan of Cobs then the answer is going to be a firm "yes", but that still doesn't mean you buy pipes with no consideration for aesthetics.

I'll never touch a cob again but aesthetics only go as far as ergonomics. I usually prefer a rough finish so as to not loose my grip on a pipe and being that I suffer from carpal tunnel in both wrists, large bowls are a bonus. They still get dumped onto the box at the end of the day.

 

[Sweet Home Alabama]

I wlll just say that some of your all's pipes are butt ugly. I trust you enjoy them.

 

[sablebrush52]

I'm with hoosierpipeguy on this one. Beyond the 4 to 500 dollar range you're largely paying more for the maker's aesthetic sensibilities, market hype, autograph, but not for better performance. Myths abound around briar and far be it for me to puncture them. I'll just go with what I've learned from some well respected sources on the craft and materials, and will choose not to believe those myths.

That said, the pleasure that a person gets from owning and using a finely made pipe is where it's at, regardless of what motivates that pleasure.

This mythologizing about briar has been part of the scene since forever. 100 year old wood is the best, 200 year old wood is better than the best, this or that is grain better, etc. The best briar costs hundreds, or thousands of dollars a block, etc. Utter bullshit.

A "perfect" block? Nobody knows until they try to shape it. Once in a long while one does appear, and I'm watching the creation of an amazing pipe from such a block. Nope it's not for me, but the people involved thought I'd find it interesting.

In some ways, too much is made of the briar, and not nearly enough of the chamber geometry and the airway though to the slot, not to mention the shaping of that last inch of the stem. And none of that matters if you have really bad smoking habits.

If you know what you're doing you'll get great smokes from almost any pipe, and if you don't know what you're doing, no pedigree will help you.

 

[sablebrush52]

I’m getting a little tired of hearing this; it’s all optional. If I want to buy what I hate and smoke what I detest by god I will.

Far be it from me to deny you your pursuit of self destruction.

 

[cosmicfolklore]

If you know what you're doing you'll get great smokes from almost any pipe, and if you don't know what you're doing,

I wlll just say that some of your all's pipes are butt ugly.

In all of my years on here, I haven't heard someone be so insulting over someone's post of a picture of a pipe, except once, and that person was dogpiled. I'm sorry, but when someone posts a picture of their pipe or pipes, you should try to control saying such a rude and obnoxious remark. Not even funny in the least.

 

[Jaylotw]

Anything over $100 rates as expensive for me. I do appreciate the craftsmanship and artistry behind the high end pipes, and I'd probably own one or two if my small budget wasn't already split between guitars, fishing, and tobacco.

Now, I'll pay $100 for a pipe, I'll pay $200 for a fishing rod, and I'll pay $2000 for a Martin guitar. At that price point, I'm getting high quality, dependability, some resale value, but also utility.

I use my stuff, dammit. My pipes get rattled and knocked on trees to empty them, they get scorched rims and occasionally dropped into lakes and streams or hot tubs. My fishing rods get dropped of ledges, stuffed in cars, used in freezing rain. My guitar gets the shit beat out of it, scratched from picks when I get into it, cracked from getting to close to a campfire, dirty from late night revelry. And what I paid for all these things, they can handle abuse...they're made for it.

Paying any more and I have a collector's item that I'd be afraid to enjoy.

 

[Sweet Home Alabama]

In all of my years on here, I haven't heard someone be so insulting over someone's post of a picture of a pipe, except once, and that person was dogpiled. I'm sorry, but when someone posts a picture of their pipe or pipes, you should try to control saying such a rude and obnoxious remark. Not even funny in the least.

My reply wouild be that he needs to be more active on the forum. LOL!!

 

[smokeymo]

I'm with hoosierpipeguy on this one. Beyond the 4 to 500 dollar range you're largely paying more for the maker's aesthetic sensibilities, market hype, autograph, but not for better performance. Myths abound around briar and far be it for me to puncture them. I'll just go with what I've learned from some well respected sources on the craft and materials, and will choose not to believe those myths.

That said, the pleasure that a person gets from owning and using a finely made pipe is where it's at, regardless of what motivates that pleasure.

This mythologizing about briar has been part of the scene since forever. 100 year old wood is the best, 200 year old wood is better than the best, this or that is grain better, etc. The best briar costs hundreds, or thousands of dollars a block, etc. Utter bullshit.

A "perfect" block? Nobody knows until they try to shape it. Once in a long while one does appear, and I'm watching the creation of an amazing pipe from such a block. Nope it's not for me, but the people involved thought I'd find it interesting.

In some ways, too much is made of the briar, and not nearly enough of the chamber geometry and the airway though to the slot, not to mention the shaping of that last inch of the stem. And none of that matters if you have really bad smoking habits.

If you know what you're doing you'll get great smokes from almost any pipe, and if you don't know what you're doing, no pedigree will help you.

We'll have to agree to disagree.

I believe anyone can drill good chamber geometry and airway. Tooling and machining are easy. I can CNC program a perfect geometry pipe (I cannot read grain patterns or shape a pipe). It's why factory pipes exist. The fact that you say "If you know what you're doing you'll get great smokes from almost any pipe" proves this point. Making a pipe function well for smoking is the EASIEST part. I can make you something that you can smoke out of an apple and tinfoil. And it will smoke great.

The only real difference in pipes is briar and hand-shaping. Anyone who tells you different is trying to sell something.

Hint #1: Why are Castellos and Ser Jacopo's worth so much more than Peterson's and Savinelli's? To some extent it is craftmanship, but mostly it's the fact that they are using higher end (and more expensive) materials. It's the briar they are purchasing.

Hint #2: Peterson uses the same shapes over and over. Some of their pipes are $100 and some are $900. It is the same EXACT craftmanship. Same bowl geometry. What is the difference between these pipes? It's the briar.

Hint #3: Natural finishes are always more expensive than dark stains. Smooth finishes are more expensive than rusticated/blasted finishes? Why? The briar.

"Myths" have surrounded briar "since forever" because they are accurate. The fact that you diminish the value of the material shows you know very little of craftmanship in general. Is a dresser made of driftwood the same value as that made of fine Mahogany? Do you think it will last as long? Work as well? Be as beautiful? In fact, more man-hours and skill will have to go into making the crappy material look good, so it should be more expensive right? Logically that would be correct, but the cost of the mahogany far outweighs the labor.

Modern crafters are selling this "briar isn't that important" swill because it is near impossible to find the quality of briar that existed 50 years ago. Plus, it is something they can't really control. And they are selling something.

I wonder what Lee Von Erck or Jess would have to say about how much briar matters in making a pipe.

 

[sablebrush52]

I can make you something that you can smoke out of an apple and tinfoil. And it will smoke great.

Please do that.

Hint #4: You're buying into the mythology of briar "quality".

"Myths" have surrounded briar "since forever" because they are accurate. The fact that you diminish the value of the material shows you know very little of craftmanship in general.

I'm sorry that you feel so personally attacked. Maybe a few sessions with a therapist will help you with that?

Myths don't survive because they're accurate, they survive because ignorant people believe them. When a "myth" is proven to be accurate it ceases to be a myth.

You're comment regarding my knowledge of craftsmanship is utterly ludicrous and has more to do with your emotional problems than anything else. If you knew anything about me you would know better than to have written that completely ignorant and utter horseshit. You're blocked from here on out.

 

[smokeymo]

Please do that.

Hint #4: You're buying into the mythology of briar "quality".


I'm sorry that you feel so personally attacked. Maybe a few sessions with a therapist will help you with that?

Myths don't survive because they're accurate, they survive because ignorant people believe them. When a "myth" is proven to be accurate it ceases to be a myth.

You're comment regarding my knowledge of craftsmanship is utterly ludicrous and has more to do with your emotional problems than anything else. If you knew anything about me you would know better than to have written that completely ignorant and utter horseshit. You're blocked from here on out.

I'm sorry you feel so personally attacked. Maybe a few sessions with a therapist will help you with that.

 

[cosmicfolklore]

you know very little of craftmanship in general.

What a brazen assumption about the man who has crafted most of the movies people enjoy. What on earth do you do for a living that would make you more knowledgeable about Craft than the best movie animator I know of.
Plus, it just shows a total lack of forum etiquette to attack the poster instead of the topic posted. I think we had a run in where you did this to me. Stronger arguments and communication skills will offset having to attack the speaker.

 

[cosmicfolklore]

I'm sorry you feel so personally attacked. Maybe a few sessions with a therapist will help you with that.

Because you did attack,. What an asinine thing to say.

 

[smokeymo]

What a brazen assumption about the man who has crafted most of the movies people enjoy. What on earth do you do for a living that would make you more knowledgeable about Craft than the best movie animator I know of.
Plus, it just shows a total lack of forum etiquette to attack the poster instead of the topic posted. I think we had a run in where you did this to me. Stronger arguments and communication skills will offset having to attack the speaker.

Movies are not a physical craft. I'm an aerospace and medical engineer. So, I'm around machinery that crafts lifesaving equipment and spacecraft parts.

And hold on, I'm the one attacking? Do a better job reading sir. I merely stated that he doesn't know about craftmanship. Which is sounding like an accurate statement since he is a filmmaker. Then I was attacked. I didn't call him ignorant, as he called me. I'm assuming you will also rebuke your friend, right?

 

[Sweet Home Alabama]

Movies are not a physical craft. I'm an aerospace and medical engineer. So, I'm around machinery that crafts lifesaving equipment and spacecraft parts.

And hold on, I'm the one attacking? Do a better job reading sir. I merely stated that he doesn't know about craftmanship. Which is sounding like an accurate statement since he is a filmmaker. Then I was attacked. I didn't call him ignorant, as he called me. I'm assuming you will also rebuke your friend, right?

I agree, you didn't do anything but rile the gods.

 

[smokeymo]

Because you did attack,. What an asinine thing to say.

My rebuttal to his claims were pointed and organized. And he did not offer a debate. Instead, he called observations myths and he called me ignorant for making these observations. When I stated that he must not have experience in crafting, he threw a tantrum and started making claims about mental health.

Your statement that he is a filmmaker explains a lot in terms of our viewpoints. Filmmaking is an art, not a craft. Engineering is a craft, not an art. He believes that the artistic side of a pipe is what determines value. I believe that the crafting and material is what determines a pipe's value. We are both allowed our opinions. But notice that I didn't call him ignorant for the points that he made.

 

[Chasing Embers]

The only real difference in pipes is briar and hand-shaping.

Seeing an awful lot of similarity there and not seeing a whole lot of hand tools.?

www.youtube.com/watch?v=QxkJWzQ5IQw&t=229s

 

[Sweet Home Alabama]

What was the Bauhaus philosphy, "form follows function"?

 

[Chasing Embers]

I wonder what Lee Von Erck or Jess would have to say about how much briar matters in making a pipe.

Lee would say that sometimes he gets lucky.