Expensive Pipes--To Each His Own

[JKoD]

Movies are not a physical craft. I'm an aerospace and medical engineer. So, I'm around machinery that crafts lifesaving equipment and spacecraft parts.

And hold on, I'm the one attacking? Do a better job reading sir. I merely stated that he doesn't know about craftmanship. Which is sounding like an accurate statement since he is a filmmaker. Then I was attacked. I didn't call him ignorant, as he called me. I'm assuming you will also rebuke your friend, right?

Not to stir the pot - but, I happened to notice something.

Engineer craftsmanship does not equal artistic craftsmanship. Craftsmanship doesn’t apply similarly across industries, but the definition is the same. How you apply craftsmanship does matter, especially because when you don’t recognize someone else’s craft or know anything about it, or them, you are insulting them.

Add the additional verbal hurling and you get attacks. I see one person, you, attacking. And one person, Sable, defending.

Just an outsider’s perspective on the conversation.

Regarding you’re engineering craftsmanship - I give you great credit for having to be right. It doesn’t translate well to all facets of you’re life it seems, but if you aren’t always exactly right with your craft - people will likely die.

With regard to artistic crafts and qualitative analysis on them…science and exacts no longer apply and trying to make it will only affect someone’s overall long-term mental health.

Perhaps an appreciation for the arts and the wide acceptance of interpretation applied would be of benefit. ?‍

 

[Sweet Home Alabama]

It would probably be near impossible to commission something similar to a Kaywoodie 13B.

 

[dctune]

The Myth of Brand and Maker in Pipesmoking
By Dr. Fred Hanna, Ph.D

https://47eb33e2-aa5c-4340-b7df-657...d/17b259_acdce5ca70354ca7a5f64775f95ae600.pdf

Meet Fred Hanna, Doctor of Pipes

Meet Fred Hanna, Doctor of Pipes | Smokingpipes.com

Read our interview with Fred Hanna, Doctor of Pipes and author of Pipe focused books such as <em>The Perfect Smoke</em>.

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Unbelievable. I just ran across this Meet Fed Hanna article yesterday. Posted a link to it last night. Then I’m perusing this thread and run across it again today.

 

[smokeymo]

There is no doubt that the blocks that are sold to make the most expensive, beautifully grained pipes are significantly more expensive than the ebauchon blocks used in many factory pipes. However, the difference in cost between the cheapest blocks and the most expensive are nowhere near the level you have suggested.

Let me share this excerpt from an email I received from the late Ken Barnes, who was well-known for his ability to pull straight grain from a block.

"Was it you Craig who was talking about the rarity of straight grain clean Canadians? If it was, here is an extract from a friend of mine who owns a briar saw mill and is a briar burl cutter.

Before I receive the top quality plateaux (i.e. super blocks) it is interesting to note how much briar needs to be cut to yield one super block of plateau.

This is a breakdown from a briar sawmill.

“we cut more or less from 90,000 to 120,000 kg a year of fresh briar and only 30% will be blocks for pipes (70% wood for fire); of these 30% of blocks yielded, 70% will be ebouchons for factory production (small blocks for making catalogue shapes – ‘series turning’) and 30% plateaux in 3 grading: the 30% plateaux yield is: TOP level I super 10%; II grade good 30%: III grade for sandblast 60%.

If I consider only the top level plateaux (10% of the total plateaux) 90% are for brandy (apple) and dublin shapes and free-style and perhaps only 10% for billiards and if the shank is long only a few blocks a year for a canadian. On the low grade you have more possibility to find a canadian and a billiard shape but the quality of the wood is not as nice as the first grade.”

So, that is how rare Super blocks are – costing me about $70 per piece landed in the UK – The seventy pieces that I have accumulated in the past year are gorgeous and I am due to receive another 10-20 blocks this week. (I ordered these in January!)

Ken"

So, $70 for the very rarest, finest, and necessarily largest blocks, due to the long shank of a Canadian. Even at double that $70 price, it's nowhere near $900-$1200 that you suggest. Looking at Manno Extra Extra grade plateau blocks from Rawkrafted, they are at most $65. Asking more for a "perfect" block is absurd. No one knows what flaws may lie within. That"perfect" block may end up a beautiful, but significantly less valuable sandblasted pipe.

Even if you have the very finest block, making the most of its potential is difficult. Cutting a block isn't like cutting a board. Unlike a tree trunk, which has largely predictable grain patterns which make maximizing its grain a relatively straightforward affair, briar grows in what is essentially a ball. The grain is not really straight. It's radial. A block may contain a beautiful straight grain pipe, but finding that pipe in that section of block takes time, experience, intuition, and skill.

It's what the pipemaker does with that block that creates the lion's share of the difference in value and price from a lesser pipe.

TOP level I super 10%; II grade good 30%: III grade for sandblast 60%.

That alone proves my point. According to some on here, all briar is the same. Yet there are different grades. It's almost like some briar is better. And most isn't even worthy of pipemaking lol.

Also, taking one cutter's example from what is seemingly years ago and extrapolating to an entire industry is silly. I can guarantee you that there is briar worth upwards of a thousand dollars. Very few and far between. But the briar in question was PERFECT. Not SUPER.

 

[Sweet Home Alabama]

I remember when Martin Guitar started using second growth wide grain red spruce circa 2005. People were going ga ga. I thought it was butt ugly and said Martin was using it because it was cheap and available, which was true.

Beauty is in the eye that's looking. If you like straight grain and can get it cheap, do it. Don't buy something someone else thinks looks good.

 

[smokeymo]

Not to stir the pot - but, I happened to notice something.

Engineer craftsmanship does not equal artistic craftsmanship. Craftsmanship doesn’t apply similarly across industries, but the definition is the same. How you apply craftsmanship does matter, especially because when you don’t recognize someone else’s craft or know anything about it, or them, you are insulting them.

Add the additional verbal hurling and you get attacks. I see one person, you, attacking. And one person, Sable, defending.

Just an outsider’s perspective on the conversation.

Regarding you’re engineering craftsmanship - I give you great credit for having to be right. It doesn’t translate well to all facets of you’re life it seems, but if you aren’t always exactly right with your craft - people will likely die.

With regard to artistic crafts and qualitative analysis on them…science and exacts no longer apply and trying to make it will only affect someone’s overall long-term mental health.

Perhaps an appreciation for the arts and the wide acceptance of interpretation applied would be of benefit. ?‍

You'll never convince me that animation is a craft. There is art and there is craft. Craft creates something with functional purpose. A crafted item can have artistic attributes (a motorcycle, a desk, a pipe) but a work of art has no functional use. And most certainly that applies in this pipe making case. Pipe making is far closer to engineering than it is to doodling or painting.

Edit: I don't mean to demean or diminish the importance of art. I have many, many artistic pieces around my house, commissioned by my favorite artists. My mother is an artist. It is something I don't have a particular knack for, and I admire. Just detailing differences here.

So, in this (clearly bias) "outsider's opinion":
- person detailing points about how the material used in crafting is the utmost importance. And pointing out how the person saying that all briar is the same, must not know about crafting. = attacking.
- person calling names, not addressing any points made in the conversation, dismissing common knowledge as myths, = defending.

The word for this is delusion.

 

[timt]

My wife enjoys leather designer handbags. They cost thousands. I ask what makes these so special? She says the leather. I roll my eyes.

Yes the leather is soft and there are no imperfections — better not be! But really?

It’s the same with most things. If someone is “into” a certain thing, they’ll “justify” the expense.

But as far as function, a starting priced $30,000 trap shotgun from Krieghoff will not break clays better than my $2000 Browning Citori. Engraving and Grade of the Walnut used in the stock? Craftsmanship? Whatever? It’s only a shotgun.

As for thousand dollar tobacco pipes? I roll my eyes.

Lighting my Cob now.

Reminds me of myself 25 years ago when I had a closet full of expensive cowboy boots. WTF? I'm no cowboy. It all began with the first pair. The soft leather uppers, the leather soles (because they're cooler), getting a perfect fit, the smell of the leather and a great salesman who convinced me that I needed a rotation because wearing them too often wouldn't be good for their longevity. Sound familiar? I had a great time with it.

Eventually the local Goodwill got an anonymous donation of some fine footwear and now I get around in the same old beater loafers day after day.

 

[Chasing Embers]

The word for this is delusion.

A trained architect, which is engineer and art, such as myself has a word for you. obtuse

 

[cosmicfolklore]

Art is how craft is used. All art involves an element of pure craft, or else there can be no art.

 

[smokeymo]

A trained architect, which is engineer and art, such as myself has a word for you. obtuse

Architects aren't engineers. Sorry bub. That's why you need structural PEs to stamp your plans.

Edit: In addition, YOU aren't crafting anything. You are creating the plans for someone else to do the crafting. But yes, building is a craft that can be artistic.

 

[Grangerous]

Art is Art and smoking tobacco is smokin tobacco!

The problem here gentlemen, is in the blending ( pun intended)

 

[Sweet Home Alabama]

Architects aren't engineers. Sorry bub. That's why you need structural PEs to stamp your plans.

Edit: In addition, YOU aren't crafting anything. You are creating the plans for someone else to do the crafting. But yes, building is a craft that can be artistic.

A friend used to say that architects designed things engineers can't build.

 

[Sweet Home Alabama]

Reminds me of myself 25 years ago when I had a closet full of expensive cowboy boots. WTF? I'm no cowboy. It all began with the first pair. The soft leather uppers, the leather soles (because they're cooler), getting a perfect fit, the smell of the leather and a great salesman who convinced me that I needed a rotation because wearing them too often wouldn't be good for their longevity. Sound familiar? I had a great time with it.

Eventually the local Goodwill got an anonymous donation of some fine footwear and now I get around in the same old beater loafers day after day.

Those things were made to slid in and out of stirrups easily, not for walking...LOL!!

 

[mso489]

I have a few pipes that are treasures that I greatly enjoy, but I have had some sublime smoking in forty dollar briars and $25 cobs. I don't think the price of the pipe is the essence of enjoying pipe smoking.

 

[smokeymo]

A friend used to say that architects designed things engineers can't build.

My buddy is a Civil Engineer (us MEs like to call them Simple Engineers) and he can confirm this. I've had similar issues with NASA physicists. The worst are the marketing people though, overpromise EVERY TIME.

 

[Sweet Home Alabama]

My buddy is a Civil Engineer (us MEs like to call them Simple Engineers) and he can confirm this. I've had similar issues with NASA physicists. The worst are the marketing people though, overpromise EVERY TIME.

True marketing is simply providing what the market says they want. Manufacturing and trying to generate want is an archaic practice.

When you see these crazy looking pipes just remind yourself that somebody wants them.

 

[PaulTheScandinavian]

Reminds me of myself 25 years ago when I had a closet full of expensive cowboy boots. WTF? I'm no cowboy. It all began with the first pair. The soft leather uppers, the leather soles (because they're cooler), getting a perfect fit, the smell of the leather and a great salesman who convinced me that I needed a rotation because wearing them too often wouldn't be good for their longevity. Sound familiar? I had a great time with it.

Eventually the local Goodwill got an anonymous donation of some fine footwear and now I get around in the same old beater loafers day after day.

During the past few years, retail prices for the top quality footwear in the EU and especially in the US have gone skyrocketing high,andnow again prices for pure gold jewelry is going through the roof, I'm happy i've gotten my few pairs of Lucchese classic boots some ten years ago, today I could not afford to buy them,

 

[cosmicfolklore]

During the past few years, retail prices for the top quality footwear in the EU and especially in the US have gone skyrocketing high

I remember the early 90's as the decade of $500 sneakers, with teenagers lined up down the whole mall waiting to buy them. THAT was the age of ridiculous footwear for me.

prices for pure gold jewelry is going through the roof

24K gold? who is making things with 24K? Too soft, I wouldn't even consider using it. But, the prices of gold products is in lock step with cost of gold. The market controls this.

 

[Sweet Home Alabama]

We never bought $500 shoes for our children and they didn’t ask for them.

 

[PipeIT]

@dctune Unbelievable, about what, surprised to see mention again?


I just saw this new Former pipe, mentioned in one of the latest SPC newsletters. While I think Former is one of the Danish greats, $3500 hmm ?

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