Barling 1656 - Can Anyone Narrow Down the Date/Era?

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osiris01

Starting to Get Obsessed
Dec 21, 2017
146
31
Hello all,
I have recently got this pipe in my last lot of estates I bought. I initially assumed it to be a modern pipe since it is in pretty good shape, but looking at it closer today, I'm wondering if it is an earlier one than I had first thought. My research suggests it is pre-transition - the stamps tallies with a pre-trans pipe and the number is a 4 digit 1*** number which I understand to be an early pipe for the British market. The stem which has a bite out the bit has the cross Barling stamp and no reg number.
I was hoping that someone here wouldn't mind sharing your thoughts on this. I don't have a great deal of knowledge of old pipes since I've never really been in a position to buy them, but occasionally I pick up a cracker from a auction lot. Just wondering if this is one such pipe.
Many thanks all. Geoff
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dmcmtk

Lifer
Aug 23, 2013
3,672
1,686
I would guess It's from the late 1930's, early 1940's. Is it marked MADE IN ENGLAND or perhaps, MADE IN LONDON ENGLAND?
:)

 

osiris01

Starting to Get Obsessed
Dec 21, 2017
146
31
Hi Dave,
Thanks for your reply. No, it has no other markings or stamps - very minimalist. It is in remarkable condition for a pipe dating back from then. Can I ask, what is it that puts it around that date? I'm not doubting you at all (in fact I'm blessing your cottons, right now), but I spent hours researching this pipe today, and the sum result was that it was potentially pre-transition (and I have cried wolf on here before :oops:).
Thanks,
Geoff

 

osiris01

Starting to Get Obsessed
Dec 21, 2017
146
31
Thanks chaps/chapesses. Very glad I asked - you saved it (and me) from an ignominious refinishing.

 

dmcmtk

Lifer
Aug 23, 2013
3,672
1,686
The first thing is the size of the BARLING'S MAKE stamping. It's the smaller stamping, this is most noticeable because of the relative positions of the B and A in BARLING'S to the M in MAKE. The L is interesting, and should be indicative of the size of the pipe. The lack of a COM would also make me think it's an older pipe. On the older pipes, some have the Reg. No., some don't, or it's been lost to time. :)

 

osiris01

Starting to Get Obsessed
Dec 21, 2017
146
31
Ah, thanks. I did notice when researching that the 'MAKE' was sometimes smaller in relation to the 'BARLING'S' with the 'M' almost directly under the 'R'. Had no idea of the significance of it though. I thought the 'L' odd. I would say that the pipe has, at most, a mid sized bowl. I think the chamber is 18mm or there abouts.

 

doctorbob

Part of the Furniture Now
Mar 18, 2014
772
1,158
Grand Ledge, Michigan
The Barling's size stamps reflect a different era in pipe smoking. Both of my pre trans Barling pipes are marked as extra large, and have bowls that I consider mid sized at best.
Doc

 

sablebrush52

The Bard Of Barlings
Jun 15, 2013
19,841
45,570
Southern Oregon
jrs457.wixsite.com
Late '30's to early 40's is a pretty good guess, but it could be considerably earlier. It would help to see the stem. This particular "Barling's Make" stamp, with the extreme angling at the edges of the arch, was used in the 1920's and possibly the early 1930's. I only own one example with this particular "Barling's Make" stamp and it is hallmarked for 1926.
The four digit model number, beginning with a "1" was reserved for Barling's domestic and European market and was in use until 1962. They used a different numbering system for their US exports. The decision to create two different numbering systems probably dates to around 1926, when Barling re-entered the US market after exiting it in 1914, or maybe a year or so later. But not all British market pipes have the four digit code. Barling kept a number of their model numbers unchanged from their earlier model number system.
There was a brief period in the mid to late 1920's when Barling stamped their pipes with model numbers. I have two of them, the 1926 hallmarked pipe that I just mentioned, which uses the old numbering system and places the model number on the opposite side of the shank from the logo, and a four digit model number pipe, with the first digit being a "1", from around the same period, with the model number place under the logo.
Since this pipe has no "Ye Olde Wood" stamp, it's a "standard" grade.
The "L" stamp designates the size, large, and there were 2 smaller, the SS and S-M sizes. Now most Barling collectors would say that the existence of a size stamp means that the pipe has to be 1930's or later. That isn't correct. A couple of years ago, a particularly rare Barling turned up, a "FREAK", which was a precursor to Barling's quaints, hallmarked to 1925 and bearing an "L" size stamp in the exact place where Barling stamped its size stamps.
The lack of a COM stamp is not uncommon in the pre-war period.
The lack of a Reg'd stamp on the stem is indicative of nothing. A Reg'd number would date the stem from 1936 to 1950. Based on the logo stamp, I think this range is too late.
I might be able to lock this down a little better if I could see the stem.
To recap, the style of the "Barling's Make" logo stamp, the lack of a COM stamp, but the inclusion of a model stamp, leads me to think late '20's to early '30's. In the late '30's Barling was mostly using a very distinctive small "Barling's Make" stamp. But the word here is mostly, not exclusively, so I'm weighing imagined percentages in my head when I try to date this pipe.

 

osiris01

Starting to Get Obsessed
Dec 21, 2017
146
31
Thanks Doc, it is interesting to chart the trends and shapes through time. I sold a G W Sims pot a few days ago that dated from 60s, possibly early 70s. It was huge; the bowl diameter was about 50mm and yet it had a very slim, dainty shank and a long slightly bent stem. It sounds completely out of proportion and yet it was extremely elegant. Though I suspect it may have been made to customer specifications.
Sablebrush: thank you very much for that detailed response - I did come across the 'Freak' on my virtual travels this afternoon. I have attached a few snaps of the stem - terrible photos I'm afraid. I can take proper shots tomorrow if needed. I'm not sure the stem is original, although I have no evidence to the contrary and I wouldn't know an original from a replacement. I tested the stamp for depth which is why it is white and sadly the indentations are no longer sufficient to hold whitener. Then again, you wouldn't really expect it to I guess. It has been very lightly smoked and must have spent a considerable time either in a draw or as a 'piece', so I thought it may hold paint. Anyway, the images of the stem. Thanks again.
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sablebrush52

The Bard Of Barlings
Jun 15, 2013
19,841
45,570
Southern Oregon
jrs457.wixsite.com
Well, this stem looks like a genuine Barling stem, and one from a later period than the '20's or early '30's
I could use a good shot of the slot. The chamfer at the base of the tenon where it meets the stem is consistent with a Barling made stem. So is the light counter clockwise angle on the Barling cross. One tip that a stem has been restamped is when the restorer lines up the cross perfectly. It's rare that a genuine Barling stem isn't slightly clocked counter clockwise.
The stem could be a replacement. Barling maintained a repair service for their customers. But it could also be original, which would place the pipe later. This particular shank logo stamp is really rare, mostly 1920's, but stamps have a way of being used occasionally at different times. So it's possible that it's a late 1920's pipe with a factory replacement stem, or a later pipe, possibly 1940's, or even 1950's. I have several 1950's Barlings that lack the COM stamp. Not likely late 1930's because that "small" Barling's Make stamp, which came in two font types, is pretty distinctive and not at all like this logo stamp.
Anyway, please send a picture of the slot and button. The patent era and later slot is a different shape from the earlier 1930's slot.

 

sablebrush52

The Bard Of Barlings
Jun 15, 2013
19,841
45,570
Southern Oregon
jrs457.wixsite.com
I had some free time, so I took a look through my Barling photo archive. Yes, I AM that obsessed. I collect images of Barlings from the various eBay auctions that I've followed over the past decade or so. Not all, just older pipes that have some info useful to trying to build a data base for dating. I found this same logo stamp on a half dozen pipes, all from the 1920's with orific bits. Hmmmmmmmm... That stem may not be original...

 

osiris01

Starting to Get Obsessed
Dec 21, 2017
146
31
Apologies for my absence - we sleep at weird times in the UK. :D Odd you should say that, as I also save auction details. I refurb and sell estates. I don't deal in collectors' pieces, mainly named pipes in the 25 - 70 GBP region. It very useful to keep track of pricing trends etc. Nothing wrong with a dash of obsessive behavior - it broadens the mind.
I have taken some pictures with a proper camera. Yesterday, I got the pipe from the box, gave it a quick once-over and put the stummel aside to epoxy the stem chip. It was too late to do much about it when I finally had a look at the stummel and realised I shouldn't be touching any of it. Thus the epoxy. I'm fairly decent at stem repairs and they are normally hard to detect, but I hope I haven't trashed it as a collectors item. But maybe that matters less if the stem is not an original component.
Anyway, what I did notice about the slot is that it is broader than most. The slot looks authentic, but may have been enlarged. I hope you can see that from the images. I'm not sure what a orific bit is, but I'm guess it is something to do with the slot? I hope the images tell you what you need to know.
Thanks for all your time - very much appreciated.
Geoff
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dmcmtk

Lifer
Aug 23, 2013
3,672
1,686
An Orific slot, as in an orifice.
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The wide slot, rounded at the end of the opening, is the way a Barling stem should look.

 

osiris01

Starting to Get Obsessed
Dec 21, 2017
146
31
Ah, it's not circular like that.
The epoxy didn't take - probably a bit of rogue Vaseline (which to be honest was a heck of a relief) and it is back to how it was. Think I'll wait. Here is how it looks.
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sablebrush52

The Bard Of Barlings
Jun 15, 2013
19,841
45,570
Southern Oregon
jrs457.wixsite.com
Hello all. So what the slot tells me is that this stem is the design that was patented in 1936. The slot is lozenge shaped with straight top and bottom sides and semi-circular east/west sides. Earlier semi-orific slots retain a very slight curve top and bottom. The guy that owned this pipe was a real chomper, wasn't he?
As for dating, there's no way to do so with complete assurance, but I'll share my thoughts.
The "Barling's Make" shank logo stem is of a type that is seen sporadically and which I can say with confidence dates as far back as the 1920's. What sets this logo apart from the others is the combination of a shallow curve to the arched "Barling's" combined with such extreme angling at the end, such that the "B" in Barling's is nearly horizontal, more so than the "S" that bookends it. The word "Make" is nestled under this somewhat clumsy looking arch. The other stamps of the period do not exhibit the same level of rotation of the letters.
The model stamp indicates that the pipe was made for the domestic or European market as it is a 4 digit number whose first digit is a "1". Barling almost never stamped model numbers on their pipes until after the second World War. But there were a couple of periods when they did, starting in the mid 1920's and for a few years thereafter, and sporadically in the late '30's and sporadically during the War. My guess is that this initial change in their stamping practice is related to Barling's decision to re-enter the US market in the mid 1920's, and their decision to revise their model number system. Like everything else Barling, there are no absolutes. So while they created two distinctly different number systems in the mid 1920's they also kept a lot of existing model numbers unchanged, while changing others. It's kind of a mess to figure out.
So this stummel could be as old as the late 1920s since it could have been struck with both this particular "Barling's Make" stamp and been stamped with a model number at that time.
But then there's that damned stem. The stem is much newer than the 1920's. This is the stem that was patented in the mid 1930's, which continued to be in use for the next 30+ years. Even with a patented design, Barling stems show a lot of variation, especially around the tenon, many of which are stepped, like tenons designed for holding a stinger. Brrrrr...I'm not opening up THAT kettle of worms. This particular stem looks like a genuine Barling stem. The chamfer at the base of the tenon, the slightly counter clocked crossed Barling's stem logo, and the shaping of the button and slot all point to that.
So there are two basic possibilities, and endless permutations.
The first is that this is a 1920's stummel with a replacement Barling made stem. That's a very possible scenario. Barling kept a department for the refurbishment, maintenance, and repair of their pipes. I would also expect that a great many of their clientele would have had their stems redone in the newer style. It's a no brainer to consider that a possibility. And given that at least one owner was a slob chomper, the "originalness" of the stem is questionable.
In point of fact, the "originalness" of any vintage estate pipe's stem is suspect.
The second possibility is that the stem is the original one, in which case the pipe dates from roughly 1935-1962. It's possible that this odd logo stamp from the 1920's was used at other times but I have nothing yet that can verify this. Barling used several logo stamps simultaneously, but generally these can be assigned to a period of time.
The lack of a COM or TVF stamp suggests an earlier dating. But remember that this was graded a standard, not a YOW or higher, so a TVF stamp wouldn't have been applied. And Barling was so indifferent about their stamping, with the exception of their shank logo stamp, that the COM stamp gets left off from time to time. Dating just on the basis of a paucity of stamps is a little iffy. If the pipe was covered in stampings it would be post WW2. Lots of stampings helps with dating. For example, the TVF stamp is used a lot after WW2.
My own inclination is to go with the late 1920's model stamp and size stamp and all, with a Barling made replacement stem. But it could be a later pipe with its much maligned and long suffering original stem. There's no knowing for sure.

 
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