Any EDC CCW'ers?

[Sig]

We did it in the UK after the shooting at a primary (elementary) school in Dunblane in 1996. The overwhelming majority of people supported it, and still do. I am proud of the UK's strict gun controls. We look upon the pond in utter dismay.
Gun crime has certainly not ended, and we have still had mass shooting since. These are incredibly rare, and we genrally feel safe enough without the need to defend ourselves and our family without a fire arm.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/hist...hool-massacre-spurred-tighter-gun-control-uk/

Again, im not getting into it here, but.
This is very tough.
99.9% of what you have heard is untrue, and I can prove it.
It would be interesting to do a bit of research to see which country has more violent crime, the US or the UK. I believe you will be shocked.
And please, do NOT use MSM for information.
The FBI and CDC are a good start.
There are several nonpartisan groups with good information.
One political party in the US will do ANYTHING to win on this topic.
Our countries Attorney General just used absolutely and verifiable false propaganda to issue an emergency health crisis over firearms. But it is an absolute no go from Congress and the SCOTUS. He knowingly lied to get what he wanted.

 

[Sig]

Lotta a supposition or, loose extrapolation from various sources going on I think. As a command officer, in what the Bureau considers a "large" police department, filing crime statistics to the Bureau monthly was one of my responsibilities. I'm sure much has changed in the years since I retired but, making up or imagining out-comes of incidents was certainly not part of the exercise. I'm only guessing here but, I suspect some organization(s) is/are "polling" or soliciting information and then doing a lot of manipulating, supposing, and just plain making up a lot of totals for support of their position. A cop can't write, I'm sure there are some, what he "thinks" might have happened in his report. But, I also know, the Bureau used a lot of definitions of incidents which didn't make sense to us "street" folk. They did this in order justify a lot of the moneys they were given annually. I really love to see the numbers which are "not easy to get."

How can they be included if not reported?

I all seems to be some sort of orchestrated effort by some pro-firearms group. I, as maybe a minority of one, find it all suspect.

The individual incidents cited above by Sig I'll buy into. American Rifleman and such post them monthly and they are, theoretically, reported from reputable sources, cited sources.

Ummmmm, these unreported incidents are NOT from police.
The citizen who brandished their firearm to a bad guy did NOT report it.
I did not report my incident.
This is why the numbers are so wide, 5,000,000-3,000,000.
This is how statistics are made.
The group who dis the study is very well respected, peer reviewed and often cited.
I personally know of a dozen or more people who have not reported the "use" of their firearm. And there are an approximate 100,000,000 gun owners in the USA. Simply telling a bad guy you have a gun is an "incident".
I've been in the firearms community for several decades, this is very well know information.
Please, please, please just go read the report, you will understand.
This isn't even hard to believe for gun owners.

 

[JOHN72]

European Governments, as in the case of my country, if a police officer uses his weapon to defend himself against a serious attack, he will be sanctioned and expelled from the force, as if he were a criminal. It is shameful. I know it from police friends, who tell me about the degradation they suffer from some high commanders, ass lickers of the Government. Squatting, here, is protected by the government, you go to buy bread one morning, and when you try to enter your house, you already have a mafia of parasites in it. It's science fiction. Barcelona, a mythical city of tourism, is now a criminal alley, a lawless city.

 

[woodsroad]

Lotta a supposition or, loose extrapolation from various sources going on I think. As a command officer, in what the Bureau considers a "large" police department, filing crime statistics to the Bureau monthly was one of my responsibilities. I'm sure much has changed in the years since I retired but, making up or imagining out-comes of incidents was certainly not part of the exercise. I'm only guessing here but, I suspect some organization(s) is/are "polling" or soliciting information and then doing a lot of manipulating, supposing, and just plain making up a lot of totals for support of their position. A cop can't write, I'm sure there are some, what he "thinks" might have happened in his report. But, I also know, the Bureau used a lot of definitions of incidents which didn't make sense to us "street" folk. They did this in order justify a lot of the moneys they were given annually. I really love to see the numbers which are "not easy to get."

How can they be included if not reported?

I all seems to be some sort of orchestrated effort by some pro-firearms group. I, as maybe a minority of one, find it all suspect.

The individual incidents cited above by Sig I'll buy into. American Rifleman and such post them monthly and they are, theoretically, reported from reputable sources, cited sources.

The lack of real citations in all the responses that you received is disturbing. It means that people have allowed themselves to be lulled into confirmation bias by anecdotes and shoddy reporting. I expect more from this demographic, but maybe I just think a bit too highly of my fellow leaf burners.

The NRA has been the lead cheerleader in this exercise of intellectual laziness. As a member, I read “American Rifleman” every month, and as a lapsed journalist, I am sickened by their amateurish reporting on crime. No names, dates or precise locations. No way to easily confirm the story. Just a feel-good confirmation for their readers.

I seldom join in threads like this one because of the deep polarization of underinformed readers, ready to contest even the best researched and reported reply with undocumented heresay. What makes it worse is that I’m a dedicated CCW, so all this rumor and exagerated anecdote really pisses me off when there are real statistics to support CCW and RTKBA from the DOJ and highly qualified researchers like John Lott to rely on.

 

[brian64]

European Governments, as in the case of my country, if a police officer uses his weapon to defend himself against a serious attack, he will be sanctioned and expelled from the force, as if he were a criminal. It is shameful. I know it from police friends, who tell me about the degradation they suffer from some high commanders, ass lickers of the Government. Squatting, here, is protected by the government, you go to buy bread one morning, and when you try to enter your house, you already have a mafia of parasites in it. It's science fiction. Barcelona, a mythical city of tourism, is now a criminal alley, a lawless city.

Very sad. I've seen many of these accounts in recent years. It's an agenda being pushed all across the western world...utter madness. We're on the same path in the U.S., just not as far along...although that varies from state to state...and cities vs rural.

 

[brian64]

The lack of real citations in all the responses that you received is disturbing. It means that people have allowed themselves to be lulled into confirmation bias by anecdotes and shoddy reporting. I expect more from this demographic, but maybe I just think a bit too highly of my fellow leaf burners.

The NRA has been the lead cheerleader in this exercise of intellectual laziness. As a member, I read “American Rifleman” every month, and as a lapsed journalist, I am sickened by their amateurish reporting on crime. No names, dates or precise locations. No way to easily confirm the story. Just a feel-good confirmation for their readers.

I seldom join in threads like this one because of the deep polarization of underinformed readers, ready to contest even the best researched and reported reply with undocumented heresay. What makes it worse is that I’m a dedicated CCW, so all this rumor and exagerated anecdote really pisses me off when there are real statistics to support CCW and RTKBA from the DOJ and highly qualified researchers like John Lott to rely on.

John Lott

x.com

x.com

https://crimeresearch.org/

 

[brian64]

The lack of real citations in all the responses that you received is disturbing. It means that people have allowed themselves to be lulled into confirmation bias by anecdotes and shoddy reporting. I expect more from this demographic, but maybe I just think a bit too highly of my fellow leaf burners.

The NRA has been the lead cheerleader in this exercise of intellectual laziness. As a member, I read “American Rifleman” every month, and as a lapsed journalist, I am sickened by their amateurish reporting on crime. No names, dates or precise locations. No way to easily confirm the story. Just a feel-good confirmation for their readers.

I seldom join in threads like this one because of the deep polarization of underinformed readers, ready to contest even the best researched and reported reply with undocumented heresay. What makes it worse is that I’m a dedicated CCW, so all this rumor and exagerated anecdote really pisses me off when there are real statistics to support CCW and RTKBA from the DOJ and highly qualified researchers like John Lott to rely on.

I didn't have time to reply earlier, but just posted the John Lott links to go with your comments since you say you consider his info to be credible.

Personally I'm not particularly interested in statistics or academic data on this topic...I just don't have time for it...too many other subjects I'm much more interested in. I don't think I'd ever even heard of John Lott, but I'm glad you provided the reference.

The very simple principles of self defense are what guide my views on this...it's not complicated at all imo. I don't have to think for 5 seconds to decide whether government should have the right to criminalize firearm ownership by peaceful private citizens, leaving them defenseless. It absolutely boggles my mind that anyone could advocate that, and yet millions do...but none of them would ever put a sign on their house saying "gun-free zone".

But if you don't mind, in the context of the discussion in this thread, I have two questions for you:

1. Since you essentially expressed scorn for the info @Sig presented here, how do your conclusions differ from his, based on the info that you deem credible?

2. How would you characterize the difference between the way this subject is normally presented and analyzed in the "MSM" vs John Lott's info?

 

[Model 29]

And here I thought I was on the large side when I carry my 629-4 Mtn Gun…

I have found,after over 50 years of carrying all types of handguns,that holster selection makes the biggest difference in the way the gun feels.a pancake style holster,drawn tightly to the hip,will make a 40 ounce 1911 disappear.A wide and thick leather belt is of course a must

 

[woodsroad]

…But if you don't mind, in the context of the discussion in this thread, I have two questions for you:

1. Since you essentially expressed scorn for the info @Sig presented here, how do your conclusions differ from his, based on the info that you deem credible?

I did not express scorn for what @Sig wrote. My concern and disdain is for people who argue about anything by spouting unsupported statistics.

2. How would you characterize the difference between the way this subject is normally presented and analyzed in the "MSM" vs John Lott's info?

Night and day. The MSM, including Fox, has a strong bias, very little 2A or firearm knowledge, and no desire to remedy either shortcoming. Lott’s work is based on primary sources, free from the usual emotion-driven drivel. But it’s when you confront the emotional anti(whatever)’s with actual, verifiable statistics that blow a hole through their underinformed opinions that they really become unhinged. Nobody likes to be shown that they are wrong, and I’m not in this to make people angry, especially when their motives are benign. But we are rapidly evolving into a low information society, overwhelmed by mis and disinformation, cut off at the knees by a crumbling education system. AI will turn all that up to 11 in short order.

There is no greater threat to freedom than ignorance.

 

[Sobrbiker]

I have found,after over 50 years of carrying all types of handguns,that holster selection makes the biggest difference in the way the gun feels.a pancake style holster,drawn tightly to the hip,will make a 40 ounce 1911 disappear.A wide and thick leather belt is of course a must

Preaching to the choir my friend!
I’m blessed with a narrow build, so with decent leather things disappear easily on me.
1911 is/was favorite full size carry, but the past five years have given way to CZ-style. My EAA 10mm poly gets the full size nod now-sixteen 200gr SWC (1200fps) or 180XTP(1300fps) with DA/SA in .1” wider and about same weight will take care of any North American task I’ll run into
Revo’s are a necessary skill set, but JMB’s creation holds two world war titles for a reason!

 

[Jacob74]

I'm tempted to gun nerd out with my high-speed, low-drag, big iron carrying pipe homies, but like Mr. Warren has mentioned, all the Gollum's out there just need to keep guessing "...what has it got in it's pocketses?"

However, if anyone is around Ft Cavazos and wants to go do a little shooting on or off post, hit me up.

 

[brian64]

However, if anyone is around Ft Cavazos and wants to go do a little shooting on or off post, hit me up.

In these discussions focusing on firearms for self defense, a point that is usually neglected to be made is just how much fun shooting is.

If you want to convert an "anti-gunner", you'll probably never do it with words or statistics or studies...but if you ever get them to go to the range they'll likely be hooked.

 

[gubbyduffer]

Ummmmm, these unreported incidents are NOT from police.
The citizen who brandished their firearm to a bad guy did NOT report it.
I did not report my incident.
This is why the numbers are so wide, 5,000,000-3,000,000.
This is how statistics are made.
The group who dis the study is very well respected, peer reviewed and often cited.
I personally know of a dozen or more people who have not reported the "use" of their firearm. And there are an approximate 100,000,000 gun owners in the USA. Simply telling a bad guy you have a gun is an "incident".
I've been in the firearms community for several decades, this is very well know information.
Please, please, please just go read the report, you will understand.
This isn't even hard to believe for gun owners.

For someone that claims to be through with a thread, I am not looking into any so called statistical analysis you purport to claim holds some truth.
You previously, and falsely claimed that a small study regarding the use (brandishing/showing) of fire arms in self defense, which was then extrapolated up to national size, has resulted in 2,500,000 saved lives every year. This is clearly nonsense, and not a single study will claim this number of saved lives. That's pure speculation. Either yourself or the right wing pro gun lobby is making this up, because even if only a fraction of these potential deaths are homide, that's a homicide rate way beyond any other country. Do you honestly believe America would be a lawless dystopia in the absence of guns, with the deaths equivalent to 20 Hiroshima bombs.
Comparing population size in the UK with USA, roughly 1to5, by not being a good guy with a gun, do you think I am contributing to 500,000 needless deaths in UK every year?
Violent crime IS lower in the UK. Homicide rate by both guns and knives is both lower in the UK for example.
Just look at threads here. In the Freedom loving US you all live in fear, and that any responsible citizen must carry to defend themselves from the bad guy that carrying.
I do think in fact in terms of serious gun control in US, the horse has bolted. No country has the deep held cultural and legal hard on for fire arms like America does.

On this of all days, I am glad you got your independence if that then gives you the freedom to send kids out donning kevlar school bags and teachers to educate with guns in their drawer, then good luck to you.

 

[beefeater33]

For someone that claims to be through with a thread, I am not looking into any so called statistical analysis you purport to claim holds some truth.
You previously, and falsely claimed that a small study regarding the use (brandishing/showing) of fire arms in self defense, which was then extrapolated up to national size, has resulted in 2,500,000 saved lives every year. This is clearly nonsense, and not a single study will claim this number of saved lives. That's pure speculation. Either yourself or the right wing pro gun lobby is making this up, because even if only a fraction of these potential deaths are homide, that's a homicide rate way beyond any other country. Do you honestly believe America would be a lawless dystopia in the absence of guns, with the deaths equivalent to 20 Hiroshima bombs.
Comparing population size in the UK with USA, roughly 1to5, by not being a good guy with a gun, do you think I am contributing to 500,000 needless deaths in UK every year?
Violent crime IS lower in the UK. Homicide rate by both guns and knives is both lower in the UK for example.
Just look at threads here. In the Freedom loving US you all live in fear, and that any responsible citizen must carry to defend themselves from the bad guy that carrying.
I do think in fact in terms of serious gun control in US, the horse has bolted. No country has the deep held cultural and legal hard on for fire arms like America does.

On this of all days, I am glad you got your independence if that then gives you the freedom to send kids out donning kevlar school bags and teachers to educate with guns in their drawer, then good luck to you.

We in the USA, Sir, don’t “all live in fear “…….. enough with the Bullshit

 

[Sobrbiker]

For someone that claims to be through with a thread, I am not looking into any so called statistical analysis you purport to claim holds some truth.
You previously, and falsely claimed that a small study regarding the use (brandishing/showing) of fire arms in self defense, which was then extrapolated up to national size, has resulted in 2,500,000 saved lives every year. This is clearly nonsense, and not a single study will claim this number of saved lives. That's pure speculation. Either yourself or the right wing pro gun lobby is making this up, because even if only a fraction of these potential deaths are homide, that's a homicide rate way beyond any other country. Do you honestly believe America would be a lawless dystopia in the absence of guns, with the deaths equivalent to 20 Hiroshima bombs.
Comparing population size in the UK with USA, roughly 1to5, by not being a good guy with a gun, do you think I am contributing to 500,000 needless deaths in UK every year?
Violent crime IS lower in the UK. Homicide rate by both guns and knives is both lower in the UK for example.
Just look at threads here. In the Freedom loving US you all live in fear, and that any responsible citizen must carry to defend themselves from the bad guy that carrying.
I do think in fact in terms of serious gun control in US, the horse has bolted. No country has the deep held cultural and legal hard on for fire arms like America does.

On this of all days, I am glad you got your independence if that then gives you the freedom to send kids out donning kevlar school bags and teachers to educate with guns in their drawer, then good luck to you.

It always amuses me to hear a subject of the UK talk about rights and freedoms…

 

[brian64]

It always amuses me to hear a subject of the UK talk about rights and freedoms…

Some genuine John Lott certified info:

Comparing the Global Rate of Mass Public Shootings to the U.S.’s Rate and Comparing their Changes Over time: 1998 to 2017

Abstract

The U.S. is well below the world average in terms of the number of mass public shootings, and the global increase over time has been much bigger than for the United States.

Over the 20 years from 1998 to 2017, our list contains 2,772 attacks and at least 5,764 shooters outside the United States and 62 attacks and 66 shooters within our country. By our count, the US makes up less than 1.13% of the mass public shooters, 1.77% of their murders, and 2.19% of their attacks. All these are much less than the US’s 4.6% share of the world population. Attacks in the US are not only less frequent than other countries, they are also much less deadly on average.

Out of the 101 countries where we have identified mass public shootings occurring, the United States ranks 66thin the per capita frequency of these attacks and 56thin the murder rate.

Not only have these attacks been much more common outside the US, the US’s share of these attacks has declined over time. There has been a much bigger increase over time in the number of mass shootings in the rest of the world compared to the US.

New Research: Comparing the Global Rate of Mass Public Shootings to the U.S.’s Rate and Comparing their Changes Over time: 1998 to 2017

You can download a copy of our new research on international comparison of mass public shootings is available here. Please download and read it. Abstract The U.S. is well below the world average in…

crimeresearch.org

 

[woodsroad]

Some genuine John Lott certified info:

Comparing the Global Rate of Mass Public Shootings to the U.S.’s Rate and Comparing their Changes Over time: 1998 to 2017

Abstract

The U.S. is well below the world average in terms of the number of mass public shootings, and the global increase over time has been much bigger than for the United States.

Over the 20 years from 1998 to 2017, our list contains 2,772 attacks and at least 5,764 shooters outside the United States and 62 attacks and 66 shooters within our country. By our count, the US makes up less than 1.13% of the mass public shooters, 1.77% of their murders, and 2.19% of their attacks. All these are much less than the US’s 4.6% share of the world population. Attacks in the US are not only less frequent than other countries, they are also much less deadly on average.

Out of the 101 countries where we have identified mass public shootings occurring, the United States ranks 66thin the per capita frequency of these attacks and 56thin the murder rate.

Not only have these attacks been much more common outside the US, the US’s share of these attacks has declined over time. There has been a much bigger increase over time in the number of mass shootings in the rest of the world compared to the US.

New Research: Comparing the Global Rate of Mass Public Shootings to the U.S.’s Rate and Comparing their Changes Over time: 1998 to 2017

You can download a copy of our new research on international comparison of mass public shootings is available here. Please download and read it. Abstract The U.S. is well below the world average in…

crimeresearch.org

But…but…but…

 

[Sobrbiker]

@brian64:
Funny how EVERY state that went to “shall issue” and reciprocity CCW laws have seen significant decreases in violent crime, yet every hotbed of restrictive gun control leads the list of US violent crime locales…..almost like criminals prefer unarmed victims

 

[JOHN72]

I always say that you cannot fight evil with flowers, teddy bears and a concert in the street, holding hands, crying like little lambs. As Europe does, when there is an Islamist terrorist attack, or terrorism in general. You never negotiate with the Devil, you fight him. Here we have normalized going straight to the slaughterhouse. I have never seen such a cowardly and submissive Europe.

 

[anantaandroscoggin]

I carry a "walking stick" when visiting Ireland or the UK. And, you are allowed to defend yourself in both places. Firearms are not prohibited. Closely regulated yes but, prohibited? No.

A proper walking stick (shillellagh), properly used, is a great, defensive weapon. Of course so is a ball point pen, a pocket knife with proper knowledge, pepper spray, and many other handy implements. Totally relying on a firearm can be very limiting in many situations.

Wasn't it in the 4th Doctor's episode The Stones of Blood where the elderly lady professor complains about her visit to the U.S. where she got in trouble for walking down the street carrying her truncheon?