A Look at STG Internal Documents Regarding the Mac Baren / Sutliff Buyout

[sablebrush52]

I am sad at the double standards though. Macneils were applauded for closing McClelland but STG is on the firing line for alleged plans of shutting down blends which they own and not making money

There's an equivalency here, but not the one one would infer from your comparison. The NcNeils were praised for not selling their baby to another company that would cheapen the product and trade on the name. Moreover, much of what made McClelland what it was, was the involvement of the McNeils at every point of the process, from Mike McNeil personally selecting the tobaccos that they used, including the tobaccos they bought from cigarette companies and farms, as well as the tobaccos that Sutliff supplied to them, to Mary as the blender, to Mike overseeing all of the processes in making their blends. They were all about the quality. When they couldn't guarantee that quality they shut down. They could have priced their blends higher and it still would have sold.

STG isn't about the quality. They're about efficiency, profit and control. There's no personality, just machinery.
McClelland was about passion for making great blends. STG is about market share. They may both be companies that turned out pipe tobaccos but they came to it from opposite directions, so praise for one and raspberries for the other.

The criticisms about the McNeils refusal to sell McClelland came almost entirely from people clueless about what they did and how blending is done. There were some who put more importance in the name on the label than in the quality of the blends. Any old shit as long as it said McClelland on the label was their sentiment. Really ignorant.

 

[woodsroad]

I'm also curious what would have happened with McB (and, therefore, Sutliff) if STG hadn't purchased them. Were they on the verge of collapse? Would McBaren/Sutliff have otherwise just closed up shop and disappeared? In this case, STG may be saving the core McB stuff while cutting their own worse sellers to accommodate this. As for Dunhill blends, I fully expect the best sellers--EMP, MM, Nightcap, maybe Elizabethan, etc--to stick around while the bulk of the Peterson stuff disappears.

How do you know what the best sellers are?

 

[telescopes]

How do you know what the best sellers are?

Wait… didn’t the Amazing Kreskin just pass away?

 

[LeafErikson]

That makes sense. Boycotting is only a boycotting if it means denying a service or good you actually want but are choosing to go without to make a point. If cares little for the brand already, and chooses not to purchase from them, it is really a preference, not a boycott.

I’ve thought about this a fair bit today. Considering the fragile state of pipe tobacco in 2024, especially in regards to consistent crops grown from farmers, I have mixed feelings on the situation. The failure of the only real ‘juggernaut’ in this pea-sized industry (STG) would likely be catastrophic. I just think they’re dicks for destroying all of that processing equipment.

When pipes were first introduced in Europe those medieval dudes used to refer to smoking as ‘drinking the smoke.’ Who knows, maybe I’ll still drinketh some more Orlik Golden Showers yet.

 

[sablebrush52]

I offer this: When Georgia Pacific bought the paper mill in Camas, WA, they went in there with a genius group of young corporate types to maximize profits.

The mill opened in the second half of the 19th century and some of their machinery was old. So corporate wunderkinds decide to clip several paper machines that were deemed too old.

Fast forward a year, the mill is hemorrhaging money. They need to fire up the old tissue deptbto get some profits back. Uh oh. Fucking morons had the machines cut in half when they pulled them so no one could use them... the only profitable machines in the whole mill.

The mill just petered out after that.

I say that to say this, it will be a miracle if any of that machinery slides out of there in recoverable condition. But we shall pray.

This is not uncommon. A company takes over another company without really knowing the nature of the other company's business, and "improves" it into a failure.
AT&T bought Warner Bros, thinking that having a company that creates content would benefit their cable business. To put it mildly, they made a mess of it, realized that they were out of their depth, and spun it off to Discovery. Of course, that "merger" resulted in Discovery taking on an enormous amount of debt which is also having consequences.

On a smaller scale, there was a small mini chain of omelette parlors in the Santa Barbara area, called the Eggception. It was extremely popular, with people waiting in line to get a table, with a large menu of omelettes, many unique to the business, fresh ground coffee, and extraordinary baked goods, probably the best cheddar cheese rolls I've ever eaten. Every time I visited Santa Barbara I had lunch at the Eggception, for years and years.
The owners decided to retire and sold it to an MBA who immediately went about "improving" profitability by cutting down the menu, dispensing with the fresh baked goods, and other "efficiencies". The business closed down within 6 months.

 

[filmguerilla]

How do you know what the best sellers are?

Just going by what I usually see in the best sellers list on SmokingPipes. Since the internal leak document said that STG plans to cut their own portfolio, including Dunhill/Peterson, I'd assume they'd be cutting the ones that sell least and keep the best sellers, whatever they are.

 

[Ahi Ka]

Just going by what I usually see in the best sellers list on SmokingPipes. Since the internal leak document said that STG plans to cut their own portfolio, including Dunhill/Peterson, I'd assume they'd be cutting the ones that sell least and keep the best sellers, whatever they are.

Is the SPC best sellers list determined by individual purchases from the website? Or does it also include wholesale purchases made by B&Ms etc?

If it is the former, I can definitely see how we might be in for some surprises, as that list is determined by pipe smokers in America who purchase online.

On another note, I’m curious to see how the Sutliff’s closure impacts the availability of tobacco in far flung places like New Zealand - the only seller of pipe tobacco here in NZ used a Sutliff’s rep associated with cupojoes as their supplier.

 

[Sobrbiker]

STG is primarily a manufacturer and distributor of cigars. Pipe tobacco is secondary to them.

Very secondary from looking at their prospectus, etc.

As a newcomer to this “hobby”, what keeps me here is the interesting aspects of the hardware and software (the pipes themselves and the variety of tobaccos).
What annoys me is the almost elitist, quirky aspect.
Pipe smoking seems to have thrived when it was just a contemporary, unabashed, one of many methods of enjoying nicotine-available and attractive to everyone from all classes, and in its heyday it was the “everyman” that smoked an affordable pipe with accessible and affordable blends that you would see all over the crowds in public spaces that drove the market.
Clinging to the illusion that pipe smokers are better than other nicotine addicts makes us a niche market which by definition will have less pull in the marketplace.

I’ll buy what I can, stock up on what I like, try new things and roll with the punches because I really like being able to get a tasty half hour (to an hour) enjoyable nicotine experience with roughly the same amount of product as a cigarette that lasts maybe five minutes.
When you choose to drive an exotic, rare, or old vehicle, don’t expect to be able to find parts at the local parts store.

MacBaren is the market equivalent of a family whose estranged children inherit a beautiful old country estate in a developing suburban area, but have no interest in preserving its historic (to the family or community) value. Such beauties disappear every day to condo and retail developers.
Many bemoan the loss of such gems, but it is rare when those that have the means or motivation to save such from “progress” are able to save them.
To save Sutliff and their facilities, one would have to present the board of STG an offer they can’t refuse, before it’s too late (which I’m pretty sure it already is).

To be honest, my angst with this news comes selfishly from being a guy late to the party, that finally found what has become my everyday “go to blend”, and it happens to be one that’s affected. I can appreciate the loss of blends, brands and history, but the responsibility for that ultimately lies with those that sold out to the evil conglomerate. The inheritors of MacBarne’s legacy made a conscious decision to shitcan history, quality, and most importantly the livelihoods of all their staff.

The only constant in this life is change.

 

[smudgersmissingleg]

For all our careful planning we were rewarded by being subjected to abuse, the ridicule of a multitude of armchair experts and all manner of grifters, charlatans and head cases. On the other hand we had incredible help from such wonderful people like @JimInks, Russ, Jesse and countless others who kindly donated samples of original blends for cloning. I doubt it could be done today. That being said it is the most thankless endeavor you will ever under take and I for one would rather get circumcised by a mohel with a blunt Target carving knife then ever undertake such a thankless task again.

Are you talking about members of this forum? You are, aren't you? Please tell me you are.

Hahahaha

 

[Chasing Embers]

Is the SPC best sellers list determined by individual purchases from the website?

Yes, updated daily.

 

[telescopes]

. The failure of the only real ‘juggernaut’ in this pea-sized industry (STG) would likely be catastrophic.

i am so glad you wrote this. I meant to add that thought myself earlier. It would become an example of one biting their nose off to spite their face. And yes, they are dicks.

 

[Speak Easy]

i am so glad you wrote this. I meant to add that thought myself earlier. It would become an example of one biting their nose off to spite their face. And yes, they are dicks.

I was thinking about this last night as well. Although they’re dicks, they’re dicks in our small niche hobby. The loss of any one at this point is not good news. Even the dicks like STD. I mean STG. Perhaps I’ll eat crow and still purchase from them on occasion. Ha! Maybe.

 

[mtwaller]

This one is my first big loss in terms of pipe tobacco getting snuffed out. I was barely involved with the hobby when McClelland closed, and I had a passing interest in some Solani stuff, but not enough to lose sleep over any of it.

This one, though… this one stings a bit. HH Latakia Flake and HH ODF are two of my absolute favorites. I know some of their best performing blends will survive, and I would have to believe ODF is certainly high up on the list, but I also have to believe that the ODF that STG will (presumably) produce in their facility will be so drastically different as to be the same blend in name only. Which fucking sucks.

After a couple days of stressed indecision, I decided to buy 12 lbs of bulk and a bunch of 7 mil Mylar. Hate to do it, but I think I made the right call. I don’t plan to flip any of it. I just want to be able to crack a fresh bag of HH Pure Virginia in 25 years and be like hot damn, I definitely made the right call.

Bittersweet times.

 

[Sigmund]

We just make the mistake of thinking that these companies care about tobacco. Tobacco is only the vehicle they have used to turn a profit. Its really that simple. If they can make a deal that turns a short term profit they will. They will take that profit and redirect it to the next attempt to turn a profit. It doesnt matter if its widgets. They are simply a profit making machine.

Im going to stock up mildly on a couple of blends. Peterson DNR for sure and a little HH Lat flake. Then let the chips fall where they may.

 

[Elric]

I can appreciate the loss of blends, brands and history, but the responsibility for that ultimately lies with those that sold out to the evil conglomerate. The inheritors of MacBarne’s legacy made a conscious decision to shitcan history, quality, and most importantly the livelihoods of all their staff.

The only constant in this life is change.

Well spoken!

 

[cosmicfolklore]

This is mostly a fun thread, but I urge everyone to take this thread with a pinch of salt.

Firstly, for folks that haven’t been here for very long, I am no tobacco industry expert, as no one is here. But, I have been coaching a debate team for over a decade and I have been involved with debate for a very long time, and here are a few pointers I have for everyone to better guide their dollars and senses as they tool through these threads.

Words are powerful, and someone can delicately word something to make a lie seem like the truth. Some, suck at this, and it’s obvious, but some are masters. Debate is a word game played with research, and I could give you a thousand examples of how this works.

What the company says, is the least valuable words to play with. Coca Cola for example will release multiple statements that conflict with themselves to play all sides of an argument. This is why when a tobacco company comes on here and tells us all something, I take it with a whole CAKE of salt. One, they can’t control any promises from the moment it comes out of their mouth, and like all humans they are just speculating the same as anyone else in the world and on the forum. And, they have an interest to protect, more so than anyone else in the conversation. So, I take anything a company releases skeptically. I can either use the bullshit or reject it as bullshit. The one thing a company could tell us that I would put stock in, is if they told us that they were closing.

There is truth within in all news reports. It just might not be the truth that the reporter is trying to make. I include people leaking bullshit, reporting on someone else’s reporting, or even baldfaced lies. All of this valuable and can be used to make either side of a resolution.

So, ultimately, STG has not told us anything (at least in what has been released to the forums). They probably won’t if they are smart.
We are relying on folks that call themselves insiders. We don’t really know what is going on, except that someone (or some people) wants us to know something. This all started as someone reporting from the perspective of a laid off worker.
We also know that something IS going to happen. We are just not sure what exactly.

On the negative, it looks like we will lose a lot of blends, and we hate that. Any reduction in choices makes us angry. Even if a blend like Mixture 79 that only the mentally deranged like, makes us all upset. :::cough cough:::
Most likely, according to the history of this company, many will have recipe changes and they will rely on the labels on the tins to continue selling these.

On the positive, maybe we will get a slew of new blends. Who knows, the FDA “event” brought us a whole new set of series of limited run blends. Yeah!!! :::cough cough:::

Things we do not know for certain… we aren’t exactly sure what is going to happen to the equipment. We also don’t know for sure the STG has the interest of pipe smoking in their interest at all. I can buy myself a seat at that board table. Anyone can. It could be loaded with anti-smoking do gooders. This is a small danger when turning into a public corporation. You can’t vet who is taking a seat at the table. And, the CEO is ONLY beholden to that table. No one else at all. (period)

BUT… it is fun to speculate. This is why we on this forum enjoy discussion of these topics, and we only enjoy when a rep from a company speaks on here if it adds to our discussions.

The only point I would want anyone to take away from my contributions to this thread is… there is no certainty of anything. If you would be heartbroken to lose a blend, buy the motherfucking hell out of it. I hate to see people get hurt, and emotions hurt. But, be proactive, not some whiny douche. :::cough cough:::

Also, don’t rely on tin labels. Don’t root for corporations. And, for heaven’s sake, don’t rely too much on what a company says.

But, please, continue if what you have to say is fun, or adds something new to the discussion.

 

[mtwaller]

I’m embarrassed by my ignorance as it relates to the business side of all this. Forgive me if I sound really stupid, but the blends that Sutliff manufactures for other companies aren’t necessarily going to be owned by STG, right?

I’m thinking of stuff like SPC. Like in theory, SPC could try to get another manufacturer to produce their stuff, assuming there isn’t some contractual language preventing them from doing so? It would be really cool if Mr. Pease or Mr. Reeves could keep the flame alive. Honestly, Plum Pudding changed in the wrong direction after Sutliff started making it (in my opinion), so there’s definitely room for improvement from someone else.

And speaking of Sirs Pease and Reeves, since they clearly have deep passion for pipe tobacco and do what they do for the right reasons, I see an opportunity for them and others like KBV to potentially release their own homage blends to help fill the void in our hearts.

Just a couple random thoughts from a guy who doesn’t know squat about any of this

 

[cosmicfolklore]

blends that Sutliff manufactures for other companies aren’t necessarily going to be owned by STG, right?

That depends on the contracts between those organization and Sutliff. And, we are not privy to that information. My suggestion would be, buy the hell out of them if they are favorites.

 

[mtwaller]

That depends on the contracts between those organization and Sutliff. And, we are not privy to that information. My suggestion would be, buy the hell out of them if they are favorites.

Most definitely. Luckily I already bought enough Plum Pudding to last me for decades when I was finding good prices on the 8 oz cans. I’m content with my modest hoard, more or less. Hopefully others can get to a place where they feel the same.

 

[Peterson314]

The takeaway:
A shrinking consumer base forces an industry-wide consolidation and contraction of product offerings.

The remedy:
Bring new customers into the world of pipesmoking. Don’t invest in old people, there’s no ROI there. Start with kids, little kids, like preshoolers. I always have a bag of cobs and pouches of Capt. Monochromatic in the car to hand out to children. I usually make it a package deal with a Red Ryder BB gun.

PREACH!!

I've added Cult and Molto Dolce to my stash of stickers and lollipops. I'm heading over to my local Elementary School when they get out today. I feel a bit silly for not thinking of this myself.