A Look at STG Internal Documents Regarding the Mac Baren / Sutliff Buyout

[Peterson314]

No way. There is a popular misconception that if you invent a better mouse trap the world will beat a path to your door. They won't. They will attempt to burn your house down. @woodsroad and yours truly carefully planned the resurrection of several iconic British blends. For all our careful planning we were rewarded by being subjected to abuse, the ridicule of a multitude of armchair experts and all manner of grifters, charlatans and head cases. On the other hand we had incredible help from such wonderful people like @JimInks, Russ, Jesse and countless others who kindly donated samples of original blends for cloning. I doubt it could be done today. That being said it is the most thankless endeavor you will ever under take and I for one would rather get circumcised by a mohel with a blunt Target carving knife then ever undertake such a thankless task again.

No good deed goes unpunished, especially with this crowd. Thank you for Bengal Slices. I never tried the original, but I've burned through more than a few tins of your and @woodsroad's remake. It's part of my rotation, and I think I have enough tins to make it through the apocalypse. THANK YOU!!!

 

[fishmansf]

If it all comes down I'd find some creative solution that involves finding tobacco that I could blend into an acceptable smoke.

Honestly American Spirits Black is a pretty tasty perique smoke. Sometimes I’ll buy a pack of AS Black and just puff on them like a cigar

 

[TriedPiper]

What the company says, is the least valuable words to play with. Coca Cola for example will release multiple statements that conflict with themselves to play all sides of an argument. This is why when a tobacco company comes on here and tells us all something, I take it with a whole CAKE of salt. One, they can’t control any promises from the moment it comes out of their mouth, and like all humans they are just speculating the same as anyone else in the world and on the forum. And, they have an interest to protect, more so than anyone else in the conversation. So, I take anything a company releases skeptically. I can either use the bullshit or reject it as bullshit. The one thing a company could tell us that I would put stock in, is if they told us that they were closing.

There is truth within in all news reports. It just might not be the truth that the reporter is trying to make. I include people leaking bullshit, reporting on someone else’s reporting, or even baldfaced lies. All of this valuable and can be used to make either side of a resolution.

Great advice. Speculating IS fun, but we must weigh the facts carefully.

I base my PT buying decisions 'mostly" on the fact that I live in a not-so-freedom-friendly state. You never know what tomorrow holds. The people in charge here are (freedom-wise) mentally challenged.

Throw in the aforementioned other factors here and well...

 

[OverMountain]

This reminds me of something that happened about 13-14 years ago. A big box store corporation got involved in buying an election in a small town so that they could get clearance to put one of their stores in place.
I did a lot of business at their stores but this pissed me off no end and I decided to boycott them. Instead of going to one place to buy things my parents needed I went to 6 to 10 places almost every weekend.
Turns out a lot of people felt the same way and also boycotted them. They lost a billion dollars in sales that year, as was reported in several financial news reports.
This seems to have been understood by other companies as a disincentive to pull the same bullshit.
Sometimes boycotts work.

Walmart tried this crap too. Came to town with straw buyers who looked like young couples buying starter homes or lots. Next thing you know, Walmart put a lot of mom and pops out of business.

Don’t forget, we are still in a golden age of pipe tobacco. Enjoy, and cellar, and support the businesses you like.

 

[cosmicfolklore]

Publicly traded companies where the owner is not a majority stock holder are subject to the whims of the spread sheet and not the other way around. You love your children - you do everything you can for them. Other people's children in your care are watched over, but when push comes to shove, their interests will never exceed your own interests. So it is with publicly traded companies.

I'm not arguing, just rewording and clarifying...
Technically a corporation doesn't have an owner. It is a system. Much harder to hold a corporation accountable for anything. You are merely dealing with legal departments, and the CEO only cares when it reflects badly on them to the board.
When someone starts a business as an LLC and then incorporates to a publicly helped corporation, they've essentially sold their company to the stock market... to put it simply. Some LLC owners do "attempt" to have some control over the corporation, but that never works out as expected.
If an LLC owner actually thinks of their products as their children, then they would never incorporate.

 

[cosmicfolklore]

Also, something to consider, after a merger or takeover, the managing teams are often changed several times before settling. This is why a lot of what we are hearing may not happen, and we won't know, till the dust settles.

The buying team does the dirty work, firing people, screwing people over, destroying the commerce in cities. Then fired. New team starts selling off assets for the quick buck, then fired. New team comes in and starts establishing what and how to sell product.

I have a friend who does this for various different corporations. They come in balls forward and bust up things, destroy lives, and get fired, and rehired by another corporation to do it all over again. There is no emotions within a corporation.
People dying only matters if it affects which way that lines goes, up or down.

Corporations survive wars, dictators, apocalypses... just look at Volkswagen.

 

[TriedPiper]

I'm not arguing, just rewording and clarifying...
Technically a corporation doesn't have an owner. It is a system. Much harder to hold a corporation accountable for anything. You are merely dealing with legal departments, and the CEO only cares when it reflects badly on them to the board.
When someone starts a business as an LLC and then incorporates to a publicly helped corporation, they've essentially sold their company to the stock market... to put it simply. Some LLC owners do "attempt" to have some control over the corporation, but that never works out as expected.
If an LLC owner actually thinks of their products as their children, then they would never incorporate.

Also, something to consider, after a merger or takeover, the managing teams are often changed several times before settling. This is why a lot of what we are hearing may not happen, and we won't know, till the dust settles.

The buying team does the dirty work, firing people, screwing people over, destroying the commerce in cities. Then fired. New team starts selling off assets for the quick buck, then fired. New team comes in and starts establishing what and how to sell product.

I have a friend who does this for various different corporations. They come in balls forward and bust up things, destroy lives, and get fired, and rehired by another corporation to do it all over again. There is no emotions within a corporation.
People dying only matters if it affects which way that lines goes, up or down.

Corporations survive wars, dictators, apocalypses... just look at Volkswagen.

You are so SPOT ON - It is a SYSTEM. Thank you.

 

[sablebrush52]

Are you talking about members of this forum? You are, aren't you? Please tell me you are.

Hahahaha

He most assuredly is referring to some former members of this august forum.
Some people have issues…

 

[cosmicfolklore]

He most assuredly is referring to some former members of this august forum.
Some people have issues…

I still miss mr. lowercase

 

[sablebrush52]

Technically a corporation doesn't have an owner. It is a system

A corporation has a lot of owners, known as shareholders. And the CEO can get kicked out if major shareholders want him gone.

 

[smudgersmissingleg]

I still miss mr. lowercase

Name doesn't ring a bell. Might've been before my time. I do recall Tuff Tony. Remember him? Dude was always going on about washing pipe cleaners so you could reuse them.

 

[sablebrush52]

I still miss mr. lowercase

He’s still around on other forums, though not as often.

 

[sablebrush52]

Name doesn't ring a bell. Might've been before my time. I do recall Tuff Tony. Remember him? Dude was always going on about washing pipe cleaners so you could reuse them.

Me lowercase was a brilliant writer who contributed many fascinating posts on the history of tobaccos, amongst other curious topics. His posts were a forum highlight for me.
Unfortunately he also had issues which finally consumed the best of him.

 

[cosmicfolklore]

A corporation has a lot of owners, known as shareholders. And the CEO can get kicked out if major shareholders want him gone.

I meant an owner in the traditional sense. I was just rewording what Scopes had said for clarity. And, there are different types of shareholders, to reword what you said... controlling shareholders or more specifically a Board.

His point involved someone starting a company and then incorporating publicly.

I'm not disagreeing.

 

[cosmicfolklore]

Me Lower Case was a brilliant writer who contributed many fascinating posts on the history of tobaccos, amongst other curious topics. His posts were a forum highlight for me.
Unfortunately he also had issues which finally consumed the best of him.

Warhorse was released while I was out trying my hand at farming, and I missed it in live action, but a phone call brought me back to see him exploding. I know that it must have been a nightmare on Jim's end. But, it was... something.
misterlowercase also had access to a ton of vintage photographs of tobacco memorabilia and advertisements. He sent me a ton after he was banned, but I have since lost several laptops and do not have them any more. I hate that.

 

[cosmicfolklore]

MacBaren also handled a lot of European regional blends. Like OTC blends started in France or Italy that were bought by McB and only sold in those countries.

 

[Servant King]

I swear to God if C&D sell out, I’m going to jump off a bridge

In order that you may be in full alignment with this activity, you may wish to stock up on this:

 

[HeavyLeadBelly]

Some people have issues…

Hey I resemble that comment!

 

[Homer]

We should just buy STG shares and be happy.

 

[HeavyLeadBelly]

And, there are different types of shareholders,

Yup. In my first career I was working at a Fortune 500 company that wasn’t publicly traded but did have private shares you might be able to recieve if you lasted long enough and made it to the top. I think there were like ten or so total shares and I only knew one person who had one and he was the head of the entire division I worked under. Guy is still there but I think he’s been in that companies leadership for many decades.