Why Only Simple & Absurd "Counterfeit" Pipes Exist --- An Explanation

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Briar Lee

Lifer
Sep 4, 2021
4,837
13,913
Humansville Missouri
I’m not only learning more from my new friends here, I’m teaching myself more about pipes, since I joined this forum.

Somewhere between Frankfurt, Germany and Bug Tussle (greater Humansville metro area) is a White Spot NOT FOR SALE pipe I’m hoping will be a Dunhill “lunch box special”.

If that pipe had left Dunhill as an authorized, regular item of merchandise it would not bear NOT FOR SALE stamp.

There are two things, that the German who sold me this pipe said I trust-

It’s a high quality pipe

It snaps the stem and briar together like a Dunhill

So I dug around in box of old pipes and found my Parker pipe with a broken button that’s been badly filed so I can smoke it. I’ve owned this Parker maybe 30 years, and for years I just thought it was a cool old English pipe with a feel of extremely high quality about it.

Tonight I looked up Parker pipes on Pipepedia. I have a 1925 Parker with a bad stem but otherwise in very high condition.
——

Prior to Word War II, the possessive PARKER'S stamp was used. However, at least some pipes were stamped with the non-possessive as early as 1936.

Like Dunhill, Parker pipes are date stamped, but differently than Dunhill. The Parker date code always followed the MADE IN LONDONover ENGLAND stamping. The first year's pipes (1923) had no date code; from 1924 on it ran consecutively from 1 to 19.

There is no indication of a date code for the war years. Parker was not a government approved pipe manufacturer, while Dunhill and Hardcastle were. During the war years Parker manufactured the "Wunup" pipe made of bakelite and clay.

Thanks to Jason Lynn, we now have photos of the following Parker pipe with a 19 date code, indicating there was perhaps some production of briar pipes during the war years. This pipe appears to have a replacement stem, or perhaps the unusual stem had to do with the war.

  • Parker with a 19 date code (1942), with what appears to be a replacement stem, courtesy Jason Lynn

  • B1918703-BB09-467C-B583-4FCD6DF72342.jpeg144592E2-C17F-4712-ACAB-998F3A752FFD.jpeg6E765B49-3CA5-4C5D-8ED1-3B7D2C02C8A9.jpeg
That’s a known Parker

Here’s my 2 stamped (1925) Parker

B07E5061-9712-49DD-A74D-15D4924B0FFA.jpeg9985A673-BF29-4568-B6B8-046847C4FBF0.jpeg248947E5-0825-4F8D-8516-158FA315D063.jpegF8461FA6-ADD2-41D5-9448-E240C8DE66C0.jpeg4D72873A-B5AF-4FE8-8349-EF3A015C1B87.jpeg653B4798-3404-4AB5-8CE7-9A3900948366.jpegB9468738-8B69-4F95-B3C2-4328BA7ACABA.jpegCB21220F-5B48-4EB1-9A2D-892B2D22E327.jpeg6D4D7CCA-1188-41AA-912A-EDC59FF756C0.jpegI can safely say that my Parker was constructed in 1925 in London and later on the button was altered.

It’s a genuine Parker.

What makes a Dunhill special, is that White Spot. But the quality of construction, even if details are not right, will tell us if artisan faked a White Spot or some counterfeiter, without much skill.

Otherwise it just as easily could have been a Dr. Grabow without the Spade and stamped Royalton, with a lucite stem.

501512B7-CE72-4BA3-9544-0893A25EED78.jpegEE972AD9-9806-490C-985A-0940C655CB2D.jpeg62238611-D616-44DA-B0DA-02693465AFBF.jpeg

Another thing I learned this evening, is that Peter Stokkebye Luxury Twist Flake has about a dozen square coins per ounce, and a medium pipe takes two coins.

Six pipe fulls of pure luxury, for about three dollars.

Unless they raise taxes, we can smoke all we want of the best tobaccos a day, for less than some guy pays for a pack of Marlboro’s.

And if we only care about having a good briar, and not some name or trademark stamped on it, then less than $30 buys a smoking pipe to equal any pipe ever made.

We’re living in a golden age of pipe smoking, is what I think.
 
Last edited:

warren

Lifer
Sep 13, 2013
11,739
16,341
Foothills of the Chugach Range, AK
There are those of us who only buy quality briar but, pass on used pipes. I won't buy other's castoffs be it cars, guitars, or such unless, they are antique tied to historical figures with bullet proof provenance. So a pipe owned by Mr. Clemens is about the only used pipe I would spend on, dearly I suspect. Not that I would denigrate those who collect used pipes. There are a myriad of great reasons people collect such, I'm just not one. puffy
 

didimauw

Moderator
Staff member
Jul 28, 2013
9,972
31,921
34
Burlington WI
There are those of us who only buy quality briar but, pass on used pipes. I won't buy other's castoffs be it cars, guitars, or such unless, they are antique tied to historical figures with bullet proof provenance. So a pipe owned by Mr. Clemens is about the only used pipe I would spend on, dearly I suspect. Not that I would denigrate those who collect used pipes. There are a myriad of great reasons people collect such, I'm just not one. puffy
I buy used pipes, clean them up, and then never smoke them. Usually end up in the trash lol I prefer to buy new, and make all the cake, scars, and memories myself.
 
You know, I am just guessing here, so take this with a grain of salt... But, I bet the reason no one has ever made a fake Briar Lee is because that would be the most stupid thing ever done. Even a bucket pipe is worth more than a Lee. You might as well forge your grandama Edith's signature on a Bob Ross painting. But, as I said, what do I know? puffy
 

Briar Lee

Lifer
Sep 4, 2021
4,837
13,913
Humansville Missouri
Failing into the wind is what this is. Those that believe there are REALLY good fakes out there aren't going to change their minds.

Whoever made my soon arriving White Spot NOT FOR SALE, might have faked a White Spot, but he ruined any chance of selling his production as a regular Dunhill, when he stamped it NOT FOR SALE.

The pipe quality will be apparent, even to me.

It might be a basket pipe with a White Spot restem.

And the basket pipe could have been that same artisan’s second for some reason.

This Royalton, if bought new, costs as much as I paid for the mystery.

6D3D09C8-840E-4B39-A296-537697DCCCBC.jpeg

About the only buyers the maker of a counterfeit White Spot NOT FOR SALE pipe could hope to deceive, would be people so knowledgeable about a Dunhill, they knew about NOT FOR SALE gift pipes which are overstamps.

They’d think it was a fake.

The unsophisticated buyer would expect it to not have NOT FOR SALE and instead have regular Dunhill stamps.

It will be fun to try and get this pipe to tell us a pipe story.:)
 
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anotherbob

Lifer
Mar 30, 2019
15,850
29,708
45
In the semi-rural NorthEastern USA
Stray thought this gave me is that if someone could make a faithful replication of a famous pipe brand to the point where even the experts could not tell, it would be more sensible and beneficial financially for that carver to be one hundred percent straight up. To call attention to the fact they're able to do the near impossible. I imagine a scenario where Gregg Smegeggy pipes has different series that are copies with playful names like Dunkhill, Petersdad, and Ashpound.
 

telescopes

Pipe Dreamer and Star Gazer
Whoever made my soon arriving White Spot NOT FOR SALE, might have faked a White Spot, but he ruined any chance of selling his production as a regular Dunhill, when he stamped it NOT FOR SALE.

The pipe quality will be apparent, even to me.

It might be a basket pipe with a White Spot restem.

And the basket pipe could have been that same artisan’s second for some reason.

This Royalton, if bought new, costs as much as I paid for the mystery.

View attachment 102205

About the only buyers the maker of a counterfeit White Spot NOT FOR SALE pipe could hope to deceive, would be people so knowledgeable about a Dunhill, they knew about NOT FOR SALE gift pipes which are overstamps.

They’d think it was a fake.

The unsophisticated buyer would expect it to not have NOT FOR SALE and instead have regular Dunhill stamps.

It will be fun to try and get this pipe to tell us a pipe story.:)
Seriously... try buying that Dr. Grabow Royalton Bulldog new. Good luck finding one.
 

telescopes

Pipe Dreamer and Star Gazer
I’m sure there are many art forgets that have better technique than say Rembrandt, but that doesn’t make them Rembrandt.
fake dunhill go for pocket change when they scream, "Hey, I look like a fake."

My "story" for @Briar Lee would be that some German had a stem with a white dot and plucked it on a pipe that said Not for Sale.

Regardless, I have a Not for Sale Dunhill and it clearly is marked.... Dunhill, as is all the other Not for Sale Dunhill's I've seen.

So....

If that is the process used by Dunhill, then the pipe in question is NOT a Dunhill.

Consider:

If everything @Briar Lee says about the pipe in question is true.... It is still not a Dunhill for this one reason... Dunhill would NEVER recognize it as a Dunhill. They WILL recognize my NOT for Sale Dunhill as a Dunhill.

What @Briar Lee has is.......a......


BASTARD.

And a bastard can NOT inherit the thrown.

And what do we call someone who longs to own a BASTARD?


FOUR LETTERS - BEGINS WITH S AND ENDS WITH T
 
Mar 1, 2014
3,647
4,917
The pipemaking industry is a really interesting one, almost anything you can find in a high end pipe you can probably find in 50 year old New Old Stock, there are still countless pipe stummels of all shapes and sized sitting unused.
And even among new pipes you can almost always find a flawed version of a high end pipe selling for a fraction of the price.

Maybe in 100 years pipes will be worth more, but for the time being we're sitting on a treasure trove of classic briar from the end of the public pipesmoking era.
 
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tobefrank

Lifer
Jun 22, 2015
1,367
5,005
Australia
This is not the same as selling an actual fake pipe, but a few years ago a Chinese pipe brand came out with what looked like carbon copies of pipes designed and sold by Tom Eltang and other Danish pipe makers. They were quickly called out and I haven’t seen any since. You would think that a pipe like Tom Eltang’s bamboo poker is popular enough and valuable enough to produce fakes off.

There seems to be a bit more calling out for blatantly copying of well known knife makers designs in the knife industry.
 
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Briar Lee

Lifer
Sep 4, 2021
4,837
13,913
Humansville Missouri
Stray thought this gave me is that if someone could make a faithful replication of a famous pipe brand to the point where even the experts could not tell, it would be more sensible and beneficial financially for that carver to be one hundred percent straight up.

As the roosters crow this morning, I’m sitting here smoking my magnificent, too good to be true, it must be a fake or modern reproduction SON brandy snifter I bought from a former communist block seller for $35 shipped on eBay.

I’m on my fourth bowl, and this is an excellent smoker, with beautiful grain, and it makes me want to think there really might be a pipe fairy that sells $35 genuine SON pipes on eBay from Serbia.

This pipe will outlive me, and a hundred or two years will pass, and who knows, where it will end up?


One thing I know, if the next owners take care of my SON Sailor 08 they’ll have a wonderful smoking pipe to smoke.

If it wasn’t so completely symmetrical and perfectly made, I’d think it was bench made by Eric Nording 55 years ago.

But they sure did use nice briar, for a $35 pipe.

C6F49FDD-9E3B-4FAA-A0F5-5680A6B87F77.jpeg1FDE02BC-1DDA-41F0-8217-B5A4FD440978.jpeg7E6EEBDD-6806-4C87-9D3C-49BB1780B146.jpeg

It’s not a crude and simple copy, by any means.
 

pappymac

Lifer
Feb 26, 2015
3,318
4,386
Though I have seen some newer pipes (even cobs) beaten up and abused and then marketed locally as turn of the century antiques. Maybe this is technically a fake refurb? Lol
I would call it a Fraudulent refurb.
A couple of years ago, I found a CAO Sherlock Holmes & Dr. Watson set of pipes in an antique mall in Hattiesburg, Ms. The guy at the mall claimed they were made by Bekler. They were in a box with the CAO label on the inside and both had the appropriate CAO logo on the stems. What made them fraudulent,

in my opinion, is the very large "Bekler" inscribed into the shank. The lettering was about 1/2-inch in height and instead of being on the shank, the lettering was on the side of the bowl. The lettering also looked liked it was done with an engraving or rotary tool.

Now, I don't own a CAO Bekler meerschaum, but I have seen more than a few of them. "Bekler" on the pipes I've seen has been on the shank and in small letters. They certainly didn't deface the bowl.

The guy wanted $500 for the set. I told him he might want to do some research on CAO Bekler pipes because the ones he had might not be authentic.
 

Briar Lee

Lifer
Sep 4, 2021
4,837
13,913
Humansville Missouri
I would call it a Fraudulent refurb.
A couple of years ago, I found a CAO Sherlock Holmes & Dr. Watson set of pipes in an antique mall in Hattiesburg, Ms. The guy at the mall claimed they were made by Bekler. They were in a box with the CAO label on the inside and both had the appropriate CAO logo on the stems. What made them fraudulent,

in my opinion, is the very large "Bekler" inscribed into the shank. The lettering was about 1/2-inch in height and instead of being on the shank, the lettering was on the side of the bowl. The lettering also looked liked it was done with an engraving or rotary tool.

Now, I don't own a CAO Bekler meerschaum, but I have seen more than a few of them. "Bekler" on the pipes I've seen has been on the shank and in small letters. They certainly didn't deface the bowl.

The guy wanted $500 for the set. I told him he might want to do some research on CAO Bekler pipes because the ones he had might not be authentic.

It would be virtually impossible to fake a set of high quality meerschaum pipes, out of high grade meerschaum

But if unsigned, anybody could take a rotary pen and forge Bekler.

I once owned a very scarce 28 gauge Remington 11-48 shotgun somebody had rotary pen engraved his initials on, depreciating it severely.

I know an engraver, that could take that area and redo it to read:

Presented to Elvis Presley by Col. Thomas Parker



It would still have been the same gun.

It’s best to not alter nice toys, you know?
 
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