Why Only Simple & Absurd "Counterfeit" Pipes Exist --- An Explanation

[sablebrush52]

About the only buyers the maker of a counterfeit White Spot NOT FOR SALE pipe could hope to deceive, would be people so knowledgeable about a Dunhill, they knew about NOT FOR SALE gift pipes which are overstamps.

They’d think it was a fake.

The unsophisticated buyer would expect it to not have NOT FOR SALE and instead have regular Dunhill stamps.

Sort of partially, maybe, reasonable. People love having something that's very limited, and the Dunhill rejects would certainly fall under that category. And there are people who knowingly buy fakes because they find it oddly amusing.

Really knowledgeable Dunhill folks would know it's a fake in a New York minute.

So, this fake is for the "a little knowledge can be a dangerous thing" group of folks. Because, IF they were REALLY knowledgeable, they would know that the lack of normal nomenclature, which is added earlier in the manufacturing process, would be proof of fakery.

But this also raises a question about the forger. Was he knowledgeable enough about Dunhills to know that they gave away a certain number of "NOT FOR SALE" pipes, but not knowledgeable enough to know that all of the Genuine "NOT FOR SALE" pipes had the "NOT FOR SALE" stamp struck over the normal nomenclature?

Or was he limited to this expediency because he could not duplicate the Actual Dunhill stamps, whereas the much less familiar "NOT FOR SALE" stamp would be accepted without so much as a second glance. And why even bother to put a "NOT FOR SALE" stamp on a pipe with no nomenclature, a "no-name" pipe? The purpose of the "NOT FOR SALE" stamp was in no small measure to obliterate the approved nomenclature.

Such mysteries abound and we may never know for sure whether this was a genuine fake or a fake fake. Maybe the stem was stolen off of a genuine Dunhill, left momentarily unattended in some biergarten while its owner left to relieve himself. Maybe the stem's a Dunhill stem removed from that very pipe. Would that make the pipe a genuine fake or a fake fake. Or is there another term that would better apply in this instance, like genuine fake fake?

 

[warren]

Jesse, when he feels like doing so, delves way past the superficial thinking of many. The above lays out the logical.

 

[Ahi Ka]

I have a spare group 2 F/T Dunhill stem which fits perfectly to a small billiard marked “bruyere”. I’ve been tempted to swap it out for the pipe’s original stem, but even I can’t justify pulling the wool over my own eyes. You see this small bruyere, is ironically a black sandblast.

but @Briar Lee if you want “genuine fake fake” Dunhill PM me with an offer

 

[kcghost]

There is no substitute for knowledge. It why I would never sign off on buying a Dunhill unless the purchase was approved by someone who knew what he was talking about instead of just banging their gums together. I always kind of wanted birth year Dunhill (1947) with a bend to it. Price and the lack of an expert when I really need one has always stopped me from doing it. And, of course, at 74 its a little bit ridiculous.

 

[Briar Lee]

Sort of partially, maybe, reasonable. People love having something that's very limited, and the Dunhill rejects would certainly fall under that category. And there are people who knowingly buy fakes because they find it oddly amusing.

Really knowledgeable Dunhill folks would know it's a fake in a New York minute.

So, this fake is for the "a little knowledge can be a dangerous thing" group of folks. Because, IF they were REALLY knowledgeable, they would know that the lack of normal nomenclature, which is added earlier in the manufacturing process, would be proof of fakery.

But this also raises a question about the forger. Was he knowledgeable enough about Dunhills to know that they gave away a certain number of "NOT FOR SALE" pipes, but not knowledgeable enough to know that all of the Genuine "NOT FOR SALE" pipes had the "NOT FOR SALE" stamp struck over the normal nomenclature?

Or was he limited to this expediency because he could not duplicate the Actual Dunhill stamps, whereas the much less familiar "NOT FOR SALE" stamp would be accepted without so much as a second glance. And why even bother to put a "NOT FOR SALE" stamp on a pipe with no nomenclature, a "no-name" pipe? The purpose of the "NOT FOR SALE" stamp was in no small measure to obliterate the approved nomenclature.

Such mysteries abound and we may never know for sure whether this was a genuine fake or a fake fake. Maybe the stem was stolen off of a genuine Dunhill, left momentarily unattended in some biergarten while its owner left to relieve himself. Maybe the stem's a Dunhill stem removed from that very pipe. Would that make the pipe a genuine fake or a fake fake. Or is there another term that would better apply in this instance, like genuine fake fake?

Today, I can’t stop studying my latest Serbian seller $35 Pre Nording SON pipe.

A Serbian seller sold this for $35 saying the bowl had a crack. There’s no crack, but one tiny fill.

This is a perfect, beautiful, gorgeously made and well grained pipe. It’s an $80 pipe.

I’ve never seen a SON.

I can’t believe such a new looking, symmetrical, shiny thing like this could be a 55 year old pipe.

But I’ve got my money’s worth, for sure.

 

[telescopes]

Today, I can’t stop studying my latest Serbian seller $35 Pre Nording SON pipe.

A Serbian seller sold this for $35 saying the bowl had a crack. There’s no crack, but one tiny fill.

This is a perfect, beautiful, gorgeously made and well grained pipe. It’s an $80 pipe.

I’ve never seen a SON.

I can’t believe such a new looking, symmetrical, shiny thing like this could be a 55 year old pipe.

But I’ve got my money’s worth, for sure.

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I am positive that I have bought two pipes previously from the same buyer. Both pipes had slight flaws and each seemed... odd. However, in the end, they were not fakes - although I often had doubts. They seemed to be some sort of rejects that had found their way to Serbia.

It seems Serbia is a place of rejected pipes.

 

[Briar Lee]

I am positive that I have bought two pipes previously from the same buyer. Both pipes had slight flaws and each seemed... odd. However, in the end, they were not fakes - although I often had doubts. They seemed to be some sort of rejects that had found their way to Serbia.

It seems Serbia is a place of rejected pipes.

The seller has hundreds, of fine pipes for sale plus expensive curiosities, sometimes fine pens.

The more I look at this SON, if this is counterfeit somebody used some mighty fine briar.


I own some extremely high quality Solingen made reproductions of Simmons Hardware pocketknives.

One of the ways you know they weren’t sold by Simmons Hardware, is Simmons didn’t deal in that high end Solingen goods.

I’m wondering if SON is a name in the public domain?

 

[cosmicfolklore]

The seller has hundreds, of fine pipes for sale plus expensive curiosities, sometimes fine pens.

The more I look at this SON, if this is counterfeit somebody used some mighty fine briar.

View attachment 102396View attachment 102397View attachment 102398View attachment 102399
I own some extremely high quality Solingen made reproductions of Simmons Hardware pocketknives.

One of the ways you know they weren’t sold by Simmons Hardware, is Simmons didn’t deal in that high end Solingen goods.

I’m wondering if SON is a name in the public domain?

Wait, you are suggesting that someone is making high end fakes of a low dollar hardware store pocketknife? I don’t understand what the endgame would be for that.

I’m also not sure why you think the Son pipe is a fake. There were lots of pipes made under second brandings, and also companies that came and went quickly. I have a Dannish Colding stacker, and a Dublin stamped Penhale (I think, its very distorted). I picked them up early on, and havent found anything about either…. But, the thought would have never crossed my mind that someone was trying to pull a fast one. Just two pipes from unknown sources. It’s not like they cost me more than $40.

I’m also guessing that you aren’t a prosecutor.

 

[alaskanpiper]

Wait, you are suggesting that someone is making high end fakes of a low dollar hardware store pocketknife? I don’t understand what the endgame would be for that.

I’m also not sure why you think the Son pipe is a fake. There were lots of pipes made under second brandings, and also companies that came and went quickly. I have a Dannish Colding stacker, and a Dublin stamped Penhale (I think, its very distorted). I picked them up early on, and havent found anything about either…. But, the thought would have never crossed my mind that someone was trying to pull a fast one. Just two pipes from unknown sources. It’s not like they cost me more than $40.

I’m also guessing that you aren’t a prosecutor.

Yeah, I'd' be surprised if someone were out there counterfeiting early Nording brands. If you're going to counterfeit that doesn't seem like the most efficient way to do it, I'm sure your SON is legit.

Looks like a nice pipe, btw. Nice pick up.

 

[anotherbob]

The seller has hundreds, of fine pipes for sale plus expensive curiosities, sometimes fine pens.

The more I look at this SON, if this is counterfeit somebody used some mighty fine briar.

View attachment 102396View attachment 102397View attachment 102398View attachment 102399
I own some extremely high quality Solingen made reproductions of Simmons Hardware pocketknives.

One of the ways you know they weren’t sold by Simmons Hardware, is Simmons didn’t deal in that high end Solingen goods.

I’m wondering if SON is a name in the public domain?

That's not briar it's Serbian Sucatash bush root. Sorry I just had to make something up to entertain myself.

 

[Briar Lee]

Wait, you are suggesting that someone is making high end fakes of a low dollar hardware store pocketknife? I don’t understand what the endgame would be for that.

I’m also not sure why you think the Son pipe is a fake. There were lots of pipes made under second brandings, and also companies that came and went quickly. I have a Dannish Colding stacker, and a Dublin stamped Penhale (I think, its very distorted). I picked them up early on, and havent found anything about either…. But, the thought would have never crossed my mind that someone was trying to pull a fast one. Just two pipes from unknown sources. It’s not like they cost me more than $40.

I’m also guessing that you aren’t a prosecutor.

The knives were sold as reproductions almost forty years ago, and not with intent to decieve.

Today they are actually worth less than similar Solingen knives.

I hope my SON is 55 years old, but a paper towel dipped in Everclear came out red when I swabbed the chamber.

After Nording left SON, I’ll bet the trade name lapsed.

This is a very high quality factory pipe, but I think it’s a very modern one.

Somebody has to be on the side of crime and evil, and it might be somebody who’s enjoy it less than me.

 

[telescopes]

Below, you will see two pipes that I purchased from the Serb. The first is a Peterson Cara. As you can see, the lettering on the stamping seems to be double stamped or definitely messed up. Also, the Initials JO are under the word Cara. I have no idea what this means. The pipe does have a flaw where one of the rings around the bowl seems a little chipped. However, this pipe smokes utterly fantastic and I won't be giving it up. I thought for the longest time it could be a fakes, but why, thought I, would someone fake a Peterson Cara?









The second pipe is a Stanwell Zebrano 203. The bottom part of the stem had a slight crack in the finish but it was easily touched up with a marker.


So, as you can see, the Serb seems to have been honest with his sales. I do note that he has many nice pipes for sale, but it seems in my case, and in yours, @Briar Lee that they have funky little things about them.

 

[tfdickson]

Below, you will see two pipes that I purchased from the Serb. The first is a Peterson Cara. As you can see, the lettering on the stamping seems to be double stamped or definitely messed up. Also, the Initials JO are under the word Cara. I have no idea what this means. The pipe does have a flaw where one of the rings around the bowl seems a little chipped. However, this pipe smokes utterly fantastic and I won't be giving it up. I thought for the longest time it could be a fakes, but why, thought I, would someone fake a Peterson Cara?




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The second pipe is a Stanwell Zebrano 203. The bottom part of the stem had a slight crack in the finish but it was easily touched up with a marker.View attachment 102479View attachment 102480View attachment 102481


So, as you can see, the Serb seems to have been honest with his sales. I do note that he has many nice pipes for sale, but it seems in my case, and in yours, @Briar Lee that they have funky little things about them.

The JO stamp on the Cara could be In reference to the Josef Ostermann pipe shop in Vienna. I know all the Castello pipes that went through them were stamped that way. Sadly, after over 200 years in business, they closed down 5 years ago.

 

[Briar Lee]

To add to the mystery of my Serbian sold SON, I don’t claim much expertise about pipes except one thing:

This SON didn’t need break in, the same as a Lee. It just has to have been oil cured.

Whereas every new Danish pipe I’ve ever smoked has been more or less torture to break in. All were Nording, Bari, and Stanwell and Knute freehand pipes made using a large chunk of greenish briar. They become good smokers, but they don’t start out that way.

This SON just looks to perfect, too factory made, to be an ancient pipe made when Eric Nording was starting out.

But, it smokes like a fine old pipe.

 

[didimauw]

To add to the mystery of my Serbian sold SON, I don’t claim much expertise about pipes except one thing:

This SON didn’t need break in, the same as a Lee. It just has to have been oil cured.

Whereas every new Danish pipe I’ve ever smoked has been more or less torture to break in. All were Nording, Bari, and Stanwell and Knute freehand pipes made using a large chunk of greenish briar. They become good smokers, but they don’t start out that way.

This SON just looks to perfect, too factory made, to be an ancient pipe made when Eric Nording was starting out.

But, it smokes like a fine old pipe.

The SON was unsmoked bare briar when you bought it?

 

[Briar Lee]

The SON was unsmoked bare briar when you bought it?

First, the entire pipe was brand new, to my eyes. Not restored, but new.

I’ve opened up 70 year old Lee pipes, and they were not smoked, but they looked old, somehow.

The bowl of my new SON pipe was carefully carbon coated. That sort of thing, sort of works a little.

But in this case it worked as well as a Lee, which is to say, perfectly.

Then when I cleaned the bowl with a twisted paper towel, it came out reddish from the stain.

And a pipe cleaner ran through the shank came out reddish.

This was a new, very nicely straight grained, beautiful brandy snifter bent pipe.

He had another just like it selling for close to $200.

But what he said was a crack, was a fill so small I can’t really photograph it.

Thirty Five Bucks

Postpaid from Serbia.

And, my wife, office assistants, the ladies at the local feed store, the ladies at the court house, all said oooo wow oh my that’s a beautiful pipe!

The guys loading my feed said why don’t you loan us some of your money, smoking that fancy pipe!

They see me smoke straight Lees all the time, and don’t say nothin’ except how good it smells.

I’ll have to smoke it at home, or else my clients will think I’m charging too much.

It looks like it cost a fortune.

 

[didimauw]

First, the entire pipe was brand new, to my eyes. Not restored, but new.

I’ve opened up 70 year old Lee pipes, and they were not smoked, but they looked old, somehow.

The bowl of my new SON pipe was carefully carbon coated. That sort of thing, sort of works a little.

But in this case it worked as well as a Lee, which is to say, perfectly.

Then when I cleaned the bowl with a twisted paper towel, it came out reddish from the stain.

And a pipe cleaner ran through the shank came out reddish.

This was a new, very nicely straight grained, beautiful brandy snifter bent pipe.

He had another just like it selling for close to $200.

But what he said was a crack, was a fill so small I can’t really photograph it.

Thirty Five Bucks

Postpaid from Serbia.

And, my wife, office assistants, the ladies at the local feed store, the ladies at the court house, all said oooo wow oh my that’s a beautiful pipe!

The guys loading my feed said why don’t you loan us some of your money, smoking that fancy pipe!

They see me smoke straight Lees all the time, and don’t say nothin’ except how good it smells.

I’ll have to smoke it at home, or else my clients will think I’m charging too much.

It looks like it cost a fortune.

This is why I like my Grabows. Pre smoked. Carbon coatings help by making it seem like they are already broken in. Some coatings really work, like the Grabows. Others I've had, have just been bad.

 

[craig61a]

Good luck with that.

For some people, strength of belief in whatever makes them feel good constitutes the only reality. Facts are incidental. (They're either something conveniently supportive; or something to be denied, ignored, suppressed, or otherwise removed from their world.)

Why Facts Don’t Change Our Minds

New discoveries about the human mind show the limitations of reason.

www.newyorker.com

 

[Briar Lee]

This is why I like my Grabows. Pre smoked. Carbon coatings help by making it seem like they are already broken in. Some coatings really work, like the Grabows. Others I've had, have just been bad.

I keep three Dr Grabow pipes in my best shooting bag, along with several pouches of tobacco. The pipes are smaller in size, and one has a cracked shank.

All three are just dynamite good smokers.

The old timers talked about “sweet briar”. I’ve heard much discussion of that back over fifty years ago, around my father’s milk barn.

There is hardly any good way to estimate all the millions of briar pipes made at Grabow at Sparta since 1943.

They have perfected the American factory smoker, many years ago, in my opinion.

 

[craig61a]

Erik Nording wasn't much of a pipe maker when SON was formed...

More than likely the pipe was made by Skovbo. To me it looks like his work.

They most certainly weren't oil curing bowls either.

Erik Nording didn't leave SON. They had a legal agreement that if one or the other decided to dissolve the business, the other had the option to buy the business interest of the other. That's what Erik did. And promptly changed the name to Nording.

SON pipes have never been highly sought after. I'm sure there are a few people interested in them, but they don't have the mass appeal that some of the other carvers have.

That pipe may have been re-stained, reamed and the bowl coated. It would not have had the bowl coated during manufacture.