Why Only Simple & Absurd "Counterfeit" Pipes Exist --- An Explanation

[georged]

1 --- If the pipe to be conterfeited was made in a production line, the machinery and tools used left "fingerprint"-type indications/evidence that is more difficult to replicate manually than the pipe is worth, money-wise.

Here is an example. Consider a common wooden clothespin. It's worth 25 cents. It consists only of two pieces of shaped wood and a length of coiled wire.

Give the most skilled hand-tool worker who ever lived a block of the proper wood, a length of the proper wire, and a handful of legit sample clothespins to use as a pattern, and tell him to fabricate a exact copy. One that cannot be spotted AS a copy.

Doing it completely by hand would be impossible, of course. The only way would be to find or make tools with exact cutting radii, make jigs to space the cuts and angles exactly right, build forms for coiling and shaping wire, discover the the correct annealing and heat treating temps to created a spring of the proper tension from that wire, and on and on. Thousandths of an inch would matter, and the proper tell-tale tooling marks---or the lack of them---in the finished piece would also be critical.

In other words, he'd have to, essentially, make a small scale clothespin FACTORY first.

And the payoff once that was done? Zero. A perfect copy would be worth no more than a legitimate one. 25 cents.

2 --- If the pipe to be counterfeited was made by a single person, the style and form becomes a "fingerprint" of its own. Give the forger a block of the proper wood and a length of hard rubber rod and repeat the exercise. Make a pipe that captures the ARTISTIC ESSENCE of famous carver X, so that collectors of his work can't tell the difference.

Well, that describes what many thousands of aspiring pipe makers have been trying to do for decades. And the very few who ever became good enough that their pipes sold for four figures didn't need to copy someone. Didn't WANT to copy someone. Why be anonymous and risk being exposed as a forger when legitimate fame and fortune (the PipeWorld version, anyway) is the other---and simpler---option?

The net result:

There have been, and will always be, Nigerian Scam-type low effort "fakes" that prey upon low information buyers. Cheap existing pipes that are marked with a famous-maker name. The equivalent of those Lincoln Town Car stretch limousines with a Bentley hood emblem that rappers are famous for.

Higher effort "require a close examination to identify" fakes simply don't exist for the reasons given.

The only exceptions known is a matter of semantics. Fake by strict definition because they were unauthorized, but legitimate in every other way. Authentic materials, techniques, tools, workers, and so forth. They were simply made after hours, smuggled out of the shop, and sold privately.

 

[mso489]

By the time a counterfeiter created a pipe that resembled an established brand, they'd have the skills to create their own line of pipes that they could sell for approximately the same price. Probably easier to put white spots on basket pipes and find gullible customers.

 

[telescopes]

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1 --- If the pipe to be conterfeited was made in a production line, the machinery and tools used left "fingerprint"-type indications/evidence that is more difficult to replicate manually than the pipe is worth, money-wise.

Here is an example. Consider a common wooden clothespin. It's worth 25 cents. It consists only of two pieces of shaped wood and a length of coiled wire.

Give the most skilled hand-tool worker who ever lived a block of the proper wood, a length of the proper wire, and a handful of legit sample clothespins to use as a pattern, and tell him to fabricate a exact copy. One that cannot be spotted AS a copy.

Doing it completely by hand would be impossible, of course. The only way would be to find or make tools with exact cutting radii, make jigs to space the cuts and angles exactly right, build forms for coiling and shaping wire, discover the the correct annealing and heat treating temps to created a spring of the proper tension from that wire, and on and on. Thousandths of an inch would matter, and the proper tell-tale tooling marks---or the lack of them---in the finished piece would also be critical.

In other words, he'd have to, essentially, make a small scale clothespin FACTORY first.

And the payoff once that was done? Zero. A perfect copy would be worth no more than a legitimate one. 25 cents.

2 --- If the pipe to be counterfeited was made by a single person, the style and form becomes a "fingerprint" of its own. Give the forger a block of the proper wood and a length of hard rubber rod and repeat the exercise. Make a pipe that captures the ARTISTIC ESSENCE of famous carver X, so that collectors of his work can't tell the difference.

Well, that describes what many thousands of aspiring pipe makers have been trying to do for decades. And the very few who ever became good enough that their pipes sold for four figures didn't need to copy someone. Didn't WANT to copy someone. Why be anonymous and risk being exposed as a forger when legitimate fame and fortune (the PipeWorld version, anyway) is the other---and simpler---option?

The net result:

There have been, and will always be, Nigerian Scam-type low effort "fakes" that prey upon low information buyers. Cheap existing pipes that are marked with a famous-maker name. The equivalent of those Lincoln Town Car stretch limousines with a Bentley hood emblem that rappers are famous for.

Higher effort "require a close examination to identify" fakes simply don't exist for the reasons given.

The only exceptions known is a matter of semantics. Fake by strict definition because they were unauthorized, but legitimate in every other way. Authentic materials, techniques, tools, workers, and so forth. They were simply made after hours, smuggled out of the shop, and sold privately.

I agree completely- except any employee of Dunhill who went to the trouble to manufacture an authorized pipe has not, in my definition, manufactured a Dunhill. What they have managed to do in my estimation is make their own pipe using materials stolen from the Dunhill factory. Let’s say Mr. Joe Bean was responsible for doing this. Then I would suggest that what a fellow has from him if he purchased the pipe in question is a Beaner and not a Dunhill. If it smokes great so be it. But if someone had never bought, owned, or procured an authorized authentic Dunhill but always wanted a Dunhill, why on earth would they trade their cash cow for a handful of beans?it’s not like you can plant the pipe in the ground and grow a bean stalk.

 

[Briar Lee]

Faced with a much similar problem of the distinct possibility, even near certainty, of unauthorized scoundrels, discontented former employees, and perhaps spurned former lovers duplicating a Pipe by Lee, The World’s Finest Pipe, Mr. Lee cleverly and with a great deal of effort avoided such easily faked trademarks as plastic spots and decided to inlet a certain seven pointed star in the stems of Lee Star Grade pipes.

Mr. Lee’s anti counterfeiting plan was so effective his early 7 point Three Star grade pipes, which sold for ten dollars in 1946, now fetch twice that on eBay and up to three times the original investment if unsmoked, and still new in the appropriate Three Star box with matching Three Star velvet sleeve. A buyer may have to pay postage, and a seller pay seller’s fees, but genuine Lee pipes from 1946 have seen increases of over 100% of their original purchase price, even if enjoyed a lifetime.

Other brands imported after the war from other places used such easily faked trademarks the trademark of those pipes alone, gives suspicion it was not authorized production.

Lee retired from making the World’s Finest Pipes, but there’s no record he invented a better clothespin or mousetrap.

But if Lee made it, look for the gold stars, symbol of the best, there is.

I can verify that clothespin was NOT, made by Lee as a Star Grade.

It might be some unadvertised sub brand, though.

 

[didimauw]

@georged

Do you come across a lot of fake pipes when your working?

 

[sasquatch]

The poorly faked Dunhill I posted in another thread is about the only one I have ever seen. I saw a "fake" Paronelli on facebook but it was a 3 dollar painted Chinese gimmick pipe with Paronelli painted in. The Nigerian scammer of pipes. George is bang on here, pipes aren't worth faking, not even 30 dollar Lees.

 

[georged]

@georged

Do you come across a lot of fake pipes when your working?

Never have.

The guys I work with tend to know their stuff, and Lincolns with Bentley hood ornaments never get bought in the first place.

 

[Duck]

Lots of fakes in the 'sanitised and ready to smoke' end of the market though.

 

[jpberg]

Lots of fakes in the 'sanitised and ready to smoke' end of the market though.

Do tell.

 

[Duck]

@jpberg in my eBay forays I see lots advertised as such, but clearly to be avoided. So far I've not been caught out, I do buy pipes to refurbish, but I know what I'm getting.

 

[sasquatch]

@jpberg in my eBay forays I see lots advertised as such, but clearly to be avoided. So far I've not been caught out, I do buy pipes to refurbish, but I know what I'm getting.

A pipe misrepresented by an unscrupulous or ignorant seller is not the same as a fake pipe. Again, show us a fake pipe. (This is the kind of communal myth-making I try to fight against).

 

[Duck]

A pipe misrepresented by an unscrupulous or ignorant seller is not the same as a fake pipe. Again, show us a fake pipe. (This is the kind of communal myth-making I try to fight against).

Who's myth making? I never claimed the two were they were making fake pipes, just that the claimed refurbishment is fake. I don't have to prove an argument that I haven't made.

 

[Ahi Ka]

@Briar Lee you should buy an old Wilmer pipe.

 

[Briar Lee]

@Briar Lee you should buy an old Wilmer pipe.

I have at least one Wilmer, down at the farm, or in a truck or car, or someplace.

It’s probably beside my Hessian Guard and a Smokemaster.

 

[Ahi Ka]

I have at least one Wilmer, down at the farm, or in a truck or car, or someplace.

It’s probably beside my Hessian Guard and a Smokemaster.

Cool so depending on the pipe you might actually own a charatan sold out the back of the factory by the foreman

 

[sasquatch]

Who's myth making? I never claimed the two were they were making fake pipes, just that the claimed refurbishment is fake. I don't have to prove an argument that I haven't made.

You. You wrote this: "Lots of fakes in the 'sanitised and ready to smoke' end of the market though." We're talking about fake pipes, that's what the conversation is about. So. Show us some of these fakes. That's the claim you made. Now you're backing off and saying that what you meant is that some refurbs aren't done so well. That's an entirely different thing. I'm keeping the language clear so that we don't send anyone home wondering if their pipe is fake.

 

[Duck]

You. You wrote this: "Lots of fakes in the 'sanitised and ready to smoke' end of the market though." We're talking about fake pipes, that's what the conversation is about. So. Show us some of these fakes. That's the claim you made. Now you're backing off and saying that what you meant is that some refurbs aren't done so well. That's an entirely different thing. I'm keeping the language clear so that we don't send anyone home wondering if their pipe is fake.

No I didn't say some refurbs aren't done so well. I said that the refurbishment was fake. My language was clear enough, in my first post to comprehend. I was adding to the conversation, not contradicting nor refuting you. Your tone is unwarranted.

 

[jpberg]

No I didn't say some refurbs aren't done so well. I said that the refurbishment was fake. My language was clear enough, in my first post to comprehend. I was adding to the conversation, not contradicting nor refuting you. Your tone is unwarranted.

Explain to me “fake refurbishment “.

 

[Ahi Ka]

Explain to me “fake refurbishment “.

I’m assuming he meant that the pipes are not what we could call cleaned and sanitised, despite being advertised as such. that’s how I interpreted the post anyways. I always expect to clean up estates upon arrival, which makes the welcomed but unexpected unsmoked pipe a nice surprise

 

[sasquatch]

L'enfer, c'est les autres