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The "New" Irish Flake?

(52 posts)
  1. torque

    torque

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    Is anyone but me noticing a difference in Irish Flake. I just received some tins to replenish my stock and noticed an immediate difference in taste with these new tins. On the first bowl from a new tin I noticed a harsh edge that had never been there before, the taste is different (somewhat bland), and the nic kick, while certainly there, isn't quite as stout. The flakes seem a little more brittle and dryer than I'm used to as well (which doesn't really bother me). I did a little forum searching and found this;

    http://pipesmagazine.com/forums/topic/macbaren-is-going-to-produce-the-peterson-tobaccos

    Well, my heart sank to my knees when I read this. I haven't really been following the forums lately so I missed this little development and it may have already been discussed to death already. If so then I apologize.

    Now I'm not sure if it's just in my head, but I did notice a marked difference before I found the above post. I'm hoping this is just an off tin and we are still going through the K&K stock and that the other tins will be OK. If I am into the MB blended IF, and this is what I can expect going forward, then I am indeed a sad panda as this is not what made me fall in love with IF. Funny thing is, this stuff looks and smells EXACTLY the same, just doesn't taste as good to my palate.

    IF is my second favorite blend and runs a VERY close second behind SG St. James Flake. I just end up smoking a lot more of it because it's been a lot easier to get. I know from the above post that K&K is putting their original formula out under the Rattray's banner, but I don't think that it's available here in the states yet. So now, of my two favorite blends, one is hard to get and the other I can't get at all through US retailers. If what I have is the new MacBaren formulation, I think I shall go somewhere and cry now. Hopefully US retailers will start stocking the Rattray's Stirling Flake soon.

    Posted 5 years ago #
  2. rcstan

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    Perhaps you got some slightly aged tins? IF does mellow and dry out some, but I never found it "bland" ....

    Posted 5 years ago #
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    peter70

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    I am sad to say, that the original IF is gone for good. The MacBaren offering is of course different, and not to my liking, but this is personal taste, but even the K&K Stirling Flake is maybe based on the IF recipe, but obviously some changes were done, IMO to reduce costs. Stock up, if you have access to the original IF, because neither successor can really substitute it.
    A direct comparison can be found here: http://jogi-wan.blogspot.de/2014/03/peterson-irish-flake-mac-baren-kohlhase.html
    (in German, but Google can translate it, so it can be understood)

    Kind regards,
    Peter
    Posted 5 years ago #
  4. torque

    torque

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    Peter, thank you for the link. That pretty much confirms for me that I have some of the "new" stuff from Mac Baren. Don't get me wrong, this isn't a bad tobacco, it's still a quality blend and once I get over the disappointment of the change in formulation I'm sure I'll continue to enjoy it as an occasional smoke. It's just that, once you really get to know a blend you come to expect certain things from it and this new formulation definitely lacks that certain "magic" that made IF my main go-to blend. I guess I'll celler the rest of the tins and hope that some aging will mellow that slight harsh/bitter undercurrent the new formula has. Again, I don't "hate" the MB stuff, it's pretty good, it just doesn't meet my expectations for Irish Flake.

    Too bad about the Sterling Flake being different from the original as well. I guess I had assumed from the posts that it would be the same, just under a different branding. I would still like to try some as it sounds like, despite the changes, it still might be closer to the original. I wonder if, once pipelines are filled in EU, we will start having access to it here in the states?

    Posted 5 years ago #
  5. layinpipe

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    Torque, this also makes me a saaaaddddd panda, as IF is my #1 favorite tobacco. I freakin' love the stuff. So far, i have not encountered this issue with the quality of the tobacco, but if true i am going to freak out. It's terrible when companies try to fix something that clearly isn't broke, simply to cut costs and save money.

    I was really hoping this thread was going to go in a different direction, like a blend that was similarily satisfying and delicious in case IF happened to be out of stock everywhere. I hope i don't get one of these shitty new excuses for a Peterson's classic anytime soon, as i have not experienced this new atrocity as of yet.

    Sincerely,
    The Saddest Panda.

    Posted 5 years ago #
  6. sailorjeremy

    sailorjeremy

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    I have a tin that I haven't cracked open yet. I think I'll pop that baby open tomorrow and see what all the hype is about.

    ~ Jeremy "Doc"

    "This is not recreation, this is therapy. This is essential... I consider the tobacco I put in my pipe all the grief and suffering. And I will burn it.”- US Navy Chaplain (RET) A.P. Sholtes
    Posted 5 years ago #
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    Anonymous

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    Gee...I guess I will have to cherish and very sparsely smoke the last tins of PUF, PIF and 3P I have in my cellar that are not produced by Mac Baren or are now under new names under Rattray's brand.

    Posted 5 years ago #
  8. torque

    torque

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    @layinpipe

    If Irish Flake is your go-to then you will certainly know it when you hit the MB stuff

    Posted 5 years ago #
  9. peckinpahhombre

    peckinpahhombre

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    So how can you tell which stuff you have? I have 51 tins in the cellar and the youngest was put in the cellar March of 2013. That is pretty recent so I take it I probably have the Mcb stuff, but wondering if there is any easy way to tell.

    How is the Mcb uni flake?

    Posted 5 years ago #
  10. torque

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    From what I have been able to ascertain from various posts, you laid your cellar in about a year before the change over. You, my friend, are in good shape. This is a very recent development, like, earlier this year.

    Posted 5 years ago #
  11. layinpipe

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    Torque, I'm smoking some right now while breaking in my new arley curtz quaint poker and it tastes normal to me. I get most of my IF from my b&m so I'm not sure if they have stock in the back that is older or if they order it fresh every time they run out. I'm going to ask next time I'm there. I am curious about how to tell the difference from the tins, if possible, like peck said.

    Posted 5 years ago #
  12. peckinpahhombre

    peckinpahhombre

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    I did a google translate of that German link and this came out in the translation:

    Since the control number on the box is not always a reliable sign for the manufacturer, just for a change, when old stocks still be with sold off, the manufacturer changes can best be using the barcode on the snuffbox, the Global Trade Item Number documented. The first three digits always indicate the country of manufacture. For Germany, the number range 400-440 is used for Denmark 570-579.

    My IF is way in the back of a shelf, but layinpipe, do you have a code that starts with a 400 or a 500?

    Posted 5 years ago #
  13. layinpipe

    layinpipe

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    Give me a little bit and I'll check, I'm outside puffing away right now.

    Posted 5 years ago #
  14. peckinpahhombre

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    I just checked mine and don't see any fricken code - I mean not a thing - at least on the outside of the tin

    Posted 5 years ago #
  15. mso489

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    Peter Stokkebye Luxury Navy Flake is awfully good right now. Smells like the chef is in the kitchen,
    if you know what I mean. A little something to cheer you up.

    Posted 5 years ago #
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    perjensen

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    Gentlemen. Just to clearify matters. Mac Baren does not prodoce either Irish Flake or University flake. We have our own HH Old Dark Fired, and is quite happy about it.
    Happy smoke
    Per Georg Jensen
    Mac Baren Tobacco

    Posted 5 years ago #
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    Anonymous

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    Per talks..... I listen.

    Thank you Per and Mac Baren for Old Dark Fired and Latakia Flake.

    Posted 5 years ago #
  18. pipesinperu

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    I just recently got some Irish Flake in an order from SPC, and the paper inside the tin is the same style, with the same tobacco leaf drawing, as I've seen in other K&K-produced products (R. McConnell). This is my first tin of Irish Flake, so I can't compare it to older production, but I love it and will be ordering more!

    Posted 5 years ago #
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    james80

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    Very good. So who does produce them?

    Posted 5 years ago #
  20. torque

    torque

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    Well, don't I look silly, lol. Guess that's what I get for buying into the internet rumor mill.

    I must just be dealing with an off tin.

    Posted 5 years ago #
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    james80

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    According to Peterson some of their blends moved to McB - so which ones?

    Posted 5 years ago #
  22. cortezattic

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    Torque, don't feel embarrassed. We are all susceptible to the power of suggestion,
    and our perceptions are constantly being modified by new, albeit false, information.
    This reminds me of what Troels Mikkelsen said when Orlik took over production of
    Capstan Flake. Orlik utilized the tins and labels leftover from the Liverpool factory
    and never received a single complaint; but when they started using their own labels,
    complaints about the Orlik version started coming in.

    Right now POM is suing Coca Cola over product identification because their pomegranate
    blueberry juice has only about .5% of those ingredients; so millions are being duped.

    I find myself sitting idly on the line dividing past and future,
    as if I could kill time without injuring eternity. -- Thoreau
    Posted 5 years ago #
  23. torque

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    LOL, yeah I'm not too embarrassed. I noticed something a little different about this particular tin of IF before I did the forum search and found that old post. Had I read the post first and then started going chicken little about it then, yeah, I'd probably be a bit more chagrin than I am. As it was, it seemed reasonable considering the difference in taste that I was experiencing with this tin. Good lesson for me though.

    Posted 5 years ago #
  24. peckinpahhombre

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    I am so confused. What were the guys in the German link you posted going on about then?

    Posted 5 years ago #
  25. misterlowercase

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    Any updates on this?

    The email from Peterson seemed to confirm a change,
    perhaps they confused MB with STG?

    I've noticed how closely PPP comes to the STG-made plugs and wouldn't be surprised if they made it.

    Is this a German market only thing?

    The K&K website used to contain info for the Peterson stuff, didn't they?
    If I remember correctly?
    http://kohlhase-kopp.com/ceemes/tabak/pfeifentabake/
    ...why else would they remove it?

    Weird.

    Posted 5 years ago #
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    james80

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    The most frustrating thing about this site is that when users pose questions they remain unanswered. Yet the users of the forum are the reason the advertisers are here generating the revenue.

    Posted 5 years ago #
  27. torque

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    I'm seriously considering ordering some tins of the new Rattray's Stirling Flake from Europe and doing a sort of "Pepsi Challenge" with the IF that I can currently get. Not sure how many questions that will answer since I smoked all my older IF but should be a fun experiment.

    Posted 5 years ago #
  28. peckinpahhombre

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    I still have no idea what the conclusion is from this thread.

    Posted 5 years ago #
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    james80

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    I think the conclusion is that if you ask how to pack a pipe, 50 people will be willing to help. However, ask for some industry knowledge and the industry insiders are nowhere to be seen. They will make an appearance should you fail to capitalise a thread or put an apostrophe in the wrong place.

    This question has been asked for months. As usual nobody answers and the speculation continues.

    Posted 5 years ago #
  30. torque

    torque

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    I don't know, I think we can conclude that some bad information was passed around. I mean, we have Per Jensen from Mac Baren stating, in absolutely unambiguous terms, that they aren't producing Irish Flake. That's pretty conclusive isn't it? As the OP for this thread I'm pretty happy with that development.

    Posted 5 years ago #
  31. misterlowercase

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    Yeah, I ain't gonna bitch until if I notice an unwelcome change, I'm still on older tins of IF, but I have smoked recent production PPP and all was well.

    The confusion still remains though.

    The email from Peterson said:

    The Peterson blends previously made by Kohlhase & Kopp are now being manufactured by Mac Baren.

    We would like to assure you there will be absolutely no difference in the quality or the selection of tobaccos available to the pipe smoker.

    ...and Per Jensen himself has told us that's not the case,
    thank you Per.

    So it would seem whoever wrote that Peterson response was in error.

    I'm too lazy to email Pete, but a follow-up email requesting more specific info might provide an answer,
    or create more confusion, who knows?

    I wonder if there was a public outcry when the change from Murray's to K&K happened?

    I know the tins looked better when Murray's made 'em,
    but they never made IF or PPP I don't think.

    ........
    torque
    ........if you do order some Stirling Flake, you may also would like to add Ilsted Dark Fired Plug, it's said by many to be uncut IF --- I've been meaning to order some, not all the German shops carry it, the shipping prices put me off...the blend descrip is pretty much the same that K&K used to have on their site about IF...

    Posted 5 years ago #
  32. torque

    torque

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    Ahhh, now that IIsteds looks very interesting. Any links to shops that might ship to the states? I know I can get Stirling Flake from HU Tobacco but not sure if they carry this one.

    Posted 5 years ago #
  33. misterlowercase

    misterlowercase

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    I was unlucky a couple of months ago when I was trying to score some, I kind of gave up due to the hassle, as I said, I'm too lazy...

    The 2 spots I found willing to ship over here both showed it in stock, but it wasn't really.
    They both communicated very well with me, and changed the stock status after my attempted order,
    momentan nicht verfügbar
    http://www.zigarrendirekt.de/Ilsted-Dark-Fired-Plug-Pfeifentabak-50g

    http://www.ebay.de/itm/Pfeifentabak-Ilsted-50-u-100-g-Dose-Nachfullpackungen-Sampler-Holzkiste-/261181325998?pt=Zigarren_Tabakwaren&var=&hash=item3ccf9ec2ae

    The plug was intro'd in 2007,
    if you do a search in quotes of "dark fired plug" alotta specific results pop up.

    K&K also makes Ilsted's Va. Plug, which many say is unsliced University Flake,
    http://www.tobaccoreviews.com/blend/3811/ilsted-virginia-plug
    ...the 2014 review from the_german talks about how he wanted the DFP but couldn't find it,
    it may be out of production?

    The plugs are still listed on the K&K website,
    http://kohlhase-kopp.com/ceemes/?article/search/0/category=20/__boolop__=AND/destination=228:results/__layout__=533/ex_creferenz_marke=676/__export__=712/ref_pfeifentabak

    If you do order some tabak from Hans, maybe he could give more info or know something, especially since he's distributing the new Rattray's by K&K he might just know, and I've heard he's a really great guy.

    I wish more plugs were easily available to us in the States.

    An Irish Flake plug would be totally awesome.

    I wish Peterson would do a "heritage series" type of thing and have a whole line of plugs besides just PPP,
    look at all these old Irish plugs, they hadda big selection back in the day!
    http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1948/en/si/0078.html

    Posted 5 years ago #
  34. carcosa

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    I'm deeply disappointed to hear that Macbarren is doing Petersons tobaccos now! I love Irish Oak and am currently smoking my first Irish Flake as we speak, having had the tin stored away for the past few months.

    I had ordered some St. James Flake bulk that was extremely wet, and dried it out again and again. By the time I got to the last ounce it was like cardboard, completely flavorless so I dumped it (lol here come the haters). Never could get it to burn well or get it lit.

    Irish flake seemed a littl moist but it lights easily and I dont mind relighting... nice sweetness to it... came in the square tin. (not rectangular

    Posted 5 years ago #
  35. misterlowercase

    misterlowercase

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    I'm deeply disappointed to hear that Macbarren is doing Petersons tobaccos now!

    Mr. Per Jensen says that they are not,
    and that is definitive...

    Gentlemen. Just to clearify matters. Mac Baren does not prodoce either Irish Flake or University flake. We have our own HH Old Dark Fired, and is quite happy about it.
    Happy smoke
    Per Georg Jensen
    Mac Baren Tobacco

    The question is who then?
    If K&K is no longer making them?

    It's said that Hyde Park is made by Gawith Hoggarth, and I've suspected that STG makes PPP - it looks like an STG plug to me and smokes very similar...

    ...so it would seem that Peterson relies on multiple makers.

    They seem to be very open with information, and if anyone is concerned they should email them to try and clarify the situation...

    ...the recent production PPP I've smoked seemed its normal good self,
    so I won't worry until something sour turns my way.

    Everything else outside of actual experience (or an answer from Pete) is speculation.

    Posted 5 years ago #
  36. mrenglish

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    Hmmm, I am going to track down some of this new PPP, I am still working on my original stash. When it first came out I stocked up on like fifty tins or so. 3P's is what brought me back into the VA's and what not.

    Michael
    Posted 5 years ago #
  37. peckinpahhombre

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    Actually Per did not say that MacBaren did not produce any Peterson tobaccos, only that they did not produce IF or UF. I have heard rumours elsewhere that they are producing some of the blends, but not all.

    Posted 5 years ago #
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    + 1 Peck

    Posted 5 years ago #
  39. misterlowercase

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    +2 Peck

    Good point sir,
    you are paying attention!

    Posted 5 years ago #
  40. mrenglish

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    Orlik always made the Peterson Flakes, K&K just distributed them. So it looks like the other Peterson blends went to Mac Baren with maybe the exception of Hyde Park, which I learned today (Thanks Huub) is made by Gawith and Hoggarth.

    Fortunately, University Flake, though cut differently, is still excellent.

    Posted 4 years ago #
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    timpiper

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    Smoking pipes is now selling Peterson blends in 16oz bags.
    These look very much like the macbaren 16oz bags.

    -Tim

    Posted 4 years ago #
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    lestrout

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    The new Rattray's including Stirling Flake, are listed at P&C, but 'backordered'. Sounds like that are clearing the shelves to be able to stock the new stuff when it arrives.

    hp
    les

    Posted 4 years ago #
  43. misterlowercase

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    new manufacturer for Peterson tobaccos
    For more than 15 years, the renowned tobacco manufacturer Kohlhase & Kopp had produced the tobaccos for Peterson.
    This triumphant cooperation now was canceled by Peterson. In the future, Peterson tobaccos are blended from the no less renowned manufacturer Arnold Andre . However, the project does have a drawback..
    The recipes developed in the many years remained with Kohlhase & Kopp. It will therefore be inevitable that will come it to a change of the composition and in the taste..
    However. the numerous friends of the exquisite Peterson tobaccos don't need to give not up her accustomed and loved tobacco pleasure, .
    On the one hand we have our stock richly filled with original Peterson tobaccos, on the other hand the most popular Peterson tobaccos are still produced by using the original recipe by Kohlhase + Kopp and are sold under the brand name Rattray 's.

    http://www.annonces.de/Shop/cgi-bin/his-webshop.cgi?c=Peterson&dif=6&f=HERSTELLER&start=1&f1=GRUPPEa&c1=pipe_tobacco&t=temsearch_artikel_en&sort=NAME

    Confusing?
    Yes.

    I believe that Arnold André is not the blender, but only the new distro in Germany since K&K no longer is.

    I did read elsewhere that Mac Baren bought the rights to the Peterson tobacco brand though,
    weird.

    My PPP tastes the same so far,
    so no complaints from me.

    Orlik always made the Peterson Flakes, K&K just distributed them.

    Very true.

    Posted 4 years ago #
  44. pitchfork

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    Just opened a new tin of Irish Flake. I wasn't aware of this issue until I opened the tin and fired up a bowl. It definitely smells and tastes different from what I've smoked in the last 3 years or so. To me, it just isn't as dark and plummy and the dark fired seems to be scaled way back. It's still good and stout, but milder by half in my opinion.

    EDIT: I'm halfway down the bowl or so and I love this stuff. So smooth and mild, but full flavored with good nic. It's not the Irish Flake I used to know, but it's good stuff. If the intensely dark smokey Irish Flake of old is gone, I'll miss it. Anyone else opened a new tin of IF lately?

    Posted 4 years ago #
  45. dottiewarden

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    Anyone else opened a new tin of IF lately?

    I'm about half way through a tin I picked up in Phoenix in July. It's the squarish shaped tin rather than the elongated one. As I haven't smoked any ather versión of IF, all I can say is it's one of the best tasting tobaccos I've ever tried. The Nic's a bit much for me, but the flavor is just to good to resist.

    I've also found it burns very evenly and right down to a fine grayish ash with zero dottle or hot bitter taste; delicious from light to finish!

    I always rub it out, let it air. then smoke it in my Peterson Sterling Silver 80s Bent Bulldog.

    Dot
    Posted 4 years ago #
  46. pitchfork

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    Same here, Dot. Burned cool and mellow to the end. Looking forward to the next bowl of this stuff.

    Posted 4 years ago #
  47. misterlowercase

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    Just opened a new tin of Irish Flake. I wasn't aware of this issue until I opened the tin and fired up a bowl. It definitely smells and tastes different from what I've smoked in the last 3 years or so. To me, it just isn't as dark and plummy and the dark fired seems to be scaled way back. It's still good and stout, but milder by half in my opinion.

    Thanks for the update.

    I still ain't opened up a new tin, I need to check one out,
    but all-in-all, your review makes it sound good, even if it is a bit different.

    Posted 4 years ago #
  48. docspipe

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    I enjoy all of the great forum posts here and am chiming in with my first post. There has been much in the way of speculation in various pipe smokers forums as to who now is the blender of Peterson's Irish Flake. Apparently, it is no longer being produced by K&H (the flakes having been pressed by Orlik). Many have stated that Mac Barens produces it now. According to Mac, they are only producing Peterson's non-flake baccys (Hyde Park still by G&H, however). I would say that even though the appearance and tin note is what I remember from my first tins of IrF (2009/2010), I do notice a difference. That difference being in what back of the throat harshness I noticed with the earlier tins is now gone; which is a good thing. I still find IrF to be one fine tobacco. It is still my number one favorite; my desert island smoke, my all day, every day smoke. Although I smoke my other favs on a regular basis, it is a rare day that I don't smoke IrF. I'm up at 6:30am most days and am smoking a bowl by 7am. I wouldn't say that the "newer" incarnatnation has been "dumbed down" or cheapened in any way. I look at it as having been refined. Still great tasting and with a fantastic room note, it is still a big winner in my book. Anxious to try K&H's Stirling Flake which has been said to be the same as IrF. Once I do, I will review that one.

    Posted 4 years ago #
  49. dottiewarden

    dottiewarden

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    Welcome aboard docspipe,

    and thanks for the post. Do come back and visit us some time soon!

    Posted 4 years ago #
  50. docspipe

    docspipe

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    Thank you dottiewarden, I shall!

    Posted 4 years ago #
  51. deathmetal

    deathmetal

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    Here's hoping that they iron out the kinks over time. It seems to me the "new" Dunhills improved a lot in the first couple years they were out.

    "My own experience has been that the tools I need for my trade are paper, tobacco, food, and a little whiskey." -- William Faulkner

    The Metal Mixtures
    Posted 3 years ago #
  52. rcstan

    rcstan

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    Well. I have since smoked a few more tins that were actually dated ( by me ) when I actually purchased them. It seems the newer ( 2013 acquired ) has less of a topping than the stuff I smoked before ( a bad thing in my book ) . I've now to get a "fresh" tin ( recent shipment ) and do some more comparing. Back in June I cracked open an older, 2006-dated, "sardine can" of IF and the topping had NOT subsided at all. The flakes were skinnier than the new stuff.
    I've yet to try the Rattray's equivalent. Will try to keep you guys posted.

    Posted 3 years ago #

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