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Preferred Whiskey/Whisky Proof?
- Thread starter Buckeyestime
- Start date
About thirty years ago the head taster of the McCormick distillery at Weston, Missouri took us on a splendid tour.
There was an old copper still they had out to show the tourist how whiskey used to be made at the distillery.
But at that time, he said McCormick contracted all their distilling from industrial alcohol plants in Illinois.
He said there was no magic in taking a certain mash bill and distilling it.
The flavor and quality of bourbon comes entirely from aging in new, charred white oak barrels and the tasting of it to know when it’s ready to bottle.
Generally more aging is better, but each barrel will have subtle differences depending on the char, the variation of the barrels, and even where on the rick the barrel is placed to age, the attic aged generally is preferred.
The very best bourbon was tasted and bottled at it’s prime, whatever that prime was.
The barrels originally were charred to mask the flavors of whatever the barrel had been used for, but for over a century only brand new charred white oak barrels were used, by law.
There were four char levels:
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When wood is heated, the hemicellulose and cellulose present in it separate into sugars. These sugars carry rich flavors such as toffee, caramel, maple, brown sugar, and nut. The oak's lignin fibers also separate, providing distinct flavor profiles. The oak may contain particles such as vanillin, which provides a vanilla taste, or eugenol, which tastes of cloves. The more a barrel is charred, the spicier the lignin's flavor contribution becomes.
Oak lactones contribute a mild coconut flavor. This taste is more pronounced in lightly charred barrels. A deeper char will damage the lactones, nullifying their effect.
The wood's tannins are released in the charring process as well. After the barrel is charred, it's left to dry out. This removes the harsher tannins that you don't want in your drink. The remaining tannins are more desirable. These will mellow the interaction between the spirit and tannin throughout the maturation process.
The oak variety and place of origin contribute to the wood's unique makeup. Every type of oak is different, with a distinctive profile of lignin, lipid, cellulose, and hemicellulose.
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There was an old copper still they had out to show the tourist how whiskey used to be made at the distillery.
But at that time, he said McCormick contracted all their distilling from industrial alcohol plants in Illinois.
He said there was no magic in taking a certain mash bill and distilling it.
The flavor and quality of bourbon comes entirely from aging in new, charred white oak barrels and the tasting of it to know when it’s ready to bottle.
Generally more aging is better, but each barrel will have subtle differences depending on the char, the variation of the barrels, and even where on the rick the barrel is placed to age, the attic aged generally is preferred.
The very best bourbon was tasted and bottled at it’s prime, whatever that prime was.
The barrels originally were charred to mask the flavors of whatever the barrel had been used for, but for over a century only brand new charred white oak barrels were used, by law.
There were four char levels:
Xxxx
When wood is heated, the hemicellulose and cellulose present in it separate into sugars. These sugars carry rich flavors such as toffee, caramel, maple, brown sugar, and nut. The oak's lignin fibers also separate, providing distinct flavor profiles. The oak may contain particles such as vanillin, which provides a vanilla taste, or eugenol, which tastes of cloves. The more a barrel is charred, the spicier the lignin's flavor contribution becomes.
Oak lactones contribute a mild coconut flavor. This taste is more pronounced in lightly charred barrels. A deeper char will damage the lactones, nullifying their effect.
The wood's tannins are released in the charring process as well. After the barrel is charred, it's left to dry out. This removes the harsher tannins that you don't want in your drink. The remaining tannins are more desirable. These will mellow the interaction between the spirit and tannin throughout the maturation process.
The oak variety and place of origin contribute to the wood's unique makeup. Every type of oak is different, with a distinctive profile of lignin, lipid, cellulose, and hemicellulose.
What Are the Char Levels?
There are four different char levels that most distilleries ascribe to.- Level 1 char: This 15-second char is the lightest option, making the bourbon slightly sweeter with some slight campfire notes.
- Level 2 char: The 30-second Level 2 char delivers notes of coffee and vanilla. It also adds a bit of spice to the finished bourbon.
- Level 3 char: After this 35-second char, you'll notice a hint of caramelization with notes of vanilla and a spicy flavor.
- Level 4 char: Lasting 55 seconds, this intense char offers the deepest flavor highlighted with a few sweeter notes.
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Half the reason cask strength is desirable for me is just because it's rare, but heck I don't know why Whiskey is ever sold at anything less than cask strength when 90% of people are just going to add EVEN MORE water.
Objectively speaking, all alcohol would also be cheaper if they sold it with the absolute minimum volume of water because it's just wasteful bottling and shipping water around the world.
Objectively speaking, all alcohol would also be cheaper if they sold it with the absolute minimum volume of water because it's just wasteful bottling and shipping water around the world.
Only if the bottles were smaller by the amount of water they were leaving out. Otherwise, water is much cheaper and easier to procure than aged spirits, so it’s a no-brainer for them to water it down.
Buying larger quantities is always less expensive, otherwise you'd just be getting the $5 sample from the shelf at checkout.
I’ll bet the tour was fun but in my opinion their product/s are to be avoided - nasty stuff.
Well, that’s just bulk pricing at work.
Meanwhile, when I go to the booze section, and compare 750-ml bottles of the same stuff in 80-proof versus 86- or 100- or whatever, the price increases with proof, even though those bottles all cost the same to ship. By your logic, it should be the other way around. So while I don’t like the idea of shipping excess water around either, that factor is being trumped by larger ones.
Yeh, but in my explorations, and my tastes, the more expensive higher proofs lend themself to being less drinkable... for me. I just don't enjoy that ethyl burn. This can be offset by longer in the cask, blending, or adding water. I tend to go less for adding something than letting the alcohol dissipate to sugars in the cask over time. I'll pay for more taste, but not more water.
Yeah, if I’m going to drink high-test booze outside of cocktails, I’ll either add a minimum of water, or take very tiny sips so that it’ll dilute as I’m passing it through my mouth. I can’t chug it as carelessly as a glass of wine.
Perhaps a good analogy might be plug/flake/rope tobaccos. They're definitely not to everyone’s taste, but they give you more options/flexibility for enjoyment.
I have found that 42 proof is my magic number. Anything below that is easy sipping for me. But, I have to be diligent. I am not one who enjoys overdoing alcohol as much as I do tobacco. To me, it feels like I am getting a flu or stomach bug. Not very enjoyable.Yeah, if I’m going to drink high-test booze outside of cocktails, I’ll either add a minimum of water, or take very tiny sips so that it’ll dilute as I’m passing it through my mouth. I can’t chug it as carelessly as a glass of wine.
Perhaps a good analogy might be plug/flake/rope tobaccos. They're definitely not to everyone’s taste, but they give you more options/flexibility for enjoyment.
I do find the higher proof whiskeys tend to have more body and flavor to me. Nut you do have to get past the ethanol
The guide was frank about how McCormick specialized at the time selling bar whiskey.
The minimum time for straight bourbon was 24 months, and there was a jar full of 2 year old bar whiskey in a display case.
In a row beside that jar were 3 year, 4 year, and 8 year old whiskey from the same mash bill, and they got progressively darker the older they were.
As he told us, 80 proof is 80 proof, but older whiskey burns less going down because of a longer time in the barrel.
Whisky, Scotch, bourbon, Irish, Canadian whisky, Japanese whisky... these terms were very confusing for me at first. For decades I never even paid any attention to these. But, I was surprised that bourbon and scotch were the only two with restrictions and regulations. Anything can be a whisky, and anything can be added. Hell there are cinnamon and honey whiskies.
I don't recommend Japanese whisky. I tried four of them. They were trying to recreate a scotch, but developed a throat napalm. I guess they like their burn in Japan.
I like Irish whiskies, or the few I've tried. But, like the term whisky here in the US, any old shit can be added to it before bottling.
I don't recommend Japanese whisky. I tried four of them. They were trying to recreate a scotch, but developed a throat napalm. I guess they like their burn in Japan.
I like Irish whiskies, or the few I've tried. But, like the term whisky here in the US, any old shit can be added to it before bottling.
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When I visited they’d just discontinued their top shelf bourbon and now it’s back.
It was the same stuff, just longer in the Rick house.
When it comes to whisky (scotch) I look for 46%abv or above as that's normally a sign that the whisky hasn't been chill filtered.
Haven't really got a sweet spot, but in Scotland it's fairly normal to add a few drops of water to whisky. My local pub has shelves high up with old water jugs like these.
Haven't really got a sweet spot, but in Scotland it's fairly normal to add a few drops of water to whisky. My local pub has shelves high up with old water jugs like these.
It's the same thing as buying juice concentrate vs. buying bottled juice, the more concentrated it is the cheaper it is to distribute the product.
Whiskey "marketing" doesn't follow the laws of economy of scale, but if everything were shipped cask strength (e.g. it could be written into law to make it mandatory), then everyone would just be saving money.
