Is It Taboo For New Members To Post Critically Of Local Merchant experiences?

[warren]

The stems are not damaged, the are oxidized, a normal reaction which requires cleaning and buffing. It's a natural reaction, not a defect or a problem. Oxidation is simply what it is.
A bit more education, many of us who keep the pipe in the mouth, not in the hand while smoking, prefer the softer bits as opposed to Lucite, easier on the teeth and jaw.
See, ignorance isn't bad, it can be corrected. Now I feel smug for furthering your education as a pipe smoker.

 

[puffndave]

Warren:

Now I feel smug for furthering your education as a pipe smoker.

That's ok, I did ask for it. Some others have resorted to ad-hoc mischaracterizations on account of philosophical differences which they have no better means of attempting to justify, and that will get my goat every time.
What do you polish with (compound and buffing material)? If you can clean up an oxidized stem and make it doesn't corrupt again until an equal timeframe under equal lighting conditions to what made it appear in the first place, then there's a whole sales crew in that store which needs a lesson from you.

 

[seacaptain]

One more thing, SeaCaptain - ......... Fuck you for trying to paint me up as that!

That type of attitude pretty much sums up why you seem to have so much trouble being a "satisfied" customer.

By the way, I'm not picking on you personally OP. I'm just comparing similar issues in dealing with ebay people. I'm new here too, I hope you take the replies constructively and stick around.

LOL. I guess not then.

 

[ssjones]

I handled pipes from the massive wall shelves, inside the drawers and over by the window. I saw no pipes damaged by the sun. There were several BBB pipes by the window in the narrow glass displays that I'll probably buy on my next visit. Those were all vulcanite stemmed pipes, but I don't recall any that I would describe as damaged in any way. The estate Sasieni and Barlings pipes I bought both had unrestored Vulcanite stems.
http://pipesmagazine.com/forums/topic/1st-barlings-make-special-225
http://rebornpipes.com/tag/sasieni-moorgate-rustic/
Both stems restored beautifully and I was very pleased some at the shop did not attempt to clean them. I'd rather do the work correctly. I'm only interested in pipes with vulcanite stems, so those were the only ones I handled.
The shop does have some what I would call "Basket" pipes on the wall near the window. I'd stay clear of those no-name pipes. I left a number of nicely priced Dunhills in those cases - spend your pipe money on one of those.

 

[warren]

I doubt many members use tooth paste, I do for the first stage. Then it's on to the wheel, usually only white compound. A bit of oil, Obsidian or some such and you are good to go. Repeat as necessary over the years.
A bit of research with the search option will show many styles and equipment for restoring bits. I'm not as concerned as others about appearance and take the quick and easy way.
A bit of unsolicited advice based on ssjones' (he's got the knowledge and the reputation as a knowledgeable pipe aficionado) observations. If I was you, and I'm not, I'd go back to that store and assay to start your relationship again. I do believe it worthwhile. Sounds as though it's a good place and and worth the effort if you are going to do the "estate" thing.
Chalk this entire matter up as a learning experience.

 

[puffndave]

ssjones, the pipe in question (and I did notice they were surrounded by other pipes with stems which had the same odd discoloration), was taken from an open "Estate" shelf - not right by the window, but I did notice when I went back in there later that it gets sunbeam exposure. So if you were in that store since March, and you didn't see any pipes on that shelf with discolored stems, then it's good to know that my angry consumer antics in there weren't altogether pointless. Needless to say they wouldn't have this problem if they didn't leave their pipes exposed, or moved all their displays away from the window.
By the way, how do you realistically restore a vulcanite stem? While what I read in this thread implies that oxidized vulcanite can be rejuvinated, believe me that nothing the boys did or said in Edleez made that the least bit apparent, which is why I actually considered it "damaged". But what I still find hard to wrap my head around is the idea of restoring one with bite marks, which most of them have to some degree. Sorry, but even if you really can kill all the germs which penetrate that stuff with a guy's teeth, the idea of putting a stem with another dude's bite marks in my mouth is too gnarly for me to consider.

 

[beastkhk]

It would appear the answer is yes; yes it is taboo to post critically of a merchant.
Membership status can have an effect to an extent, but I think being critical regarding anything is going to have some level of polarizing effect one way or the other so will a majority of the time come across as taboo.
I appreciate that the intent was to look out for forum members and would not want to deter other newer members from providing similar feedback in the future.(I appreciate any insight that helps me to be a more informed consumer) That said, based on the information provided, I am also in the camp that felt the retailer was accommodating when they offered the full refund. And now, back to my pipe.

 

[puffndave]

Anyway, on the upside of the Edleez enterprise, whoever now produces their house blends is still on the top of the game. They have fewer such blends than Russ's store on Route 5, and unlike his store there isn't a wide array for English/Balkan blends or at least not as many with lots of Latakia, although their 965 match is ok. However, I've noticed the milling (shredding) of their tobacco is more consistent, and they actually have some cavendish/burley blends which are not weak. Ed's Best has been my goto, it's a combination of different burleys with another house blend which is just an unflavored black cavendish. One who thinks no cavendish or burley has flavor hasn't tried this stuff - it actually tastes as full as it smells, I could smoke it all day, and friends who I've had over love the aroma as much as I have enjoyed smoking it. Pilgrim is another of their house blends, which is another black cav with a light topping (cognac, so I think). I have been moving toward Latakia blends, and right now the Early Morning rooster is my best friend. I'm progressing into the English/Balkan blends, and enjoying more of those produced by Russ such as Mt. Marcy, but it would be nice to have a couple of good burley/black cav blends on hand, and was wondering if anyone could recommend some which are good (notgoopy and all aroma without taste) which are available online.

 

[jackswilling]

"...the idea of putting a stem with another dude's bite marks in my mouth is too gnarly for me to consider."
Bite marks or not, any used estate pipe has been in another dude's mouth. Easy enough to sanitize. I don't want something all chewed-up either. Most stems seem to clean-up real good.

 

[puffndave]

Nola Cajun:

Dave you are just wrong...

How articulately you state that, Forum Mod!
What is it that I'm really just wrong on? Is it wrong to go pipe shopping before one has become a seasoned expert on all of the problems which one may encounter with common pipe materials? Is it wrong not be prepared as a handyman who knows how to restore oxidized stems with compound and buffing wheels without causing irreparable damage before one aquires any pipes at all? Am I wrong because I was told that it was a fully-restored estate pipe, and from that I expected not to see repair or restoration hassles appear immediately after the first use? This is why my position has been that I was not dealt with altogether honestly by the staff who I spoke with before I bought that pipe.

 

[sablebrush52]

To those who think I should have taken the refund offer, I beg to differ because they had sold me a raw deal, and not so much of a discount as I had estimated based on looks and workmanship (maybe so because it's heavier than more expensive briars). I won't argue that those who can take the refund and walk away with nothing other than a lot of wasted time and unresolved resentment are bigger men than myself, and probably better-liked, and if you can do this and not be angry then you are probably more healthy than I. But I was sure that they had played foul by selling damaged merchandise, and the degree of incompetence which the sales staff displayed was inexusable.

So having wasted some time on a bad buy, your solution is to waste more? And, your guts are still churning over it? Is there perhaps a flaw in your logic?
Shit happens and life is short. They offered you a refund. You could have accepted it and gotten something better, rather than trying to force the square peg into that round hole.
All this righteous anger over such a relatively small thing. It's not like they wrote "Dunhill" in Crayola on the side of a basket pipe and tried to convince you that it was a rare stamping. They put NOS in the estate section and sold it for less than their normal price.

For example, the most senior boy out of the 4 or 5 on the floor (may have been around the age of 25) knew nothing about polishing compounds such as Obsidian.

Probably because Obsidian Oil isn't a polishing compound. It fills microscopic pits in the surface to give a more polished appearance while also protecting the vulcanite from oxidation.
Well, this has been entertaining. Now back to life.

 

[puffndave]

Ok, beastkhk, can't argue that it's a good policy to offer a full refund, but unfortunately they could not compensate me on all my time which they had taken up to that point - this is why I really felt that it was too easy for them to just give me my money back. They had to bleed time for this quid pro-quo, and the apparent result as I'm getting from ssjones is that they no longer try and sell oxidized-stem pipes, or they are finally learning to restore them so that more newbie buyers don't get socked with having to learn that onerous task before they get to enjoy their purchases.

 

[torque]

A bit of unsolicited advice based on ssjones' (he's got the knowledge and the reputation as a knowledgeable pipe aficionado) observations. If I was you, and I'm not, I'd go back to that store and assay to start your relationship again. I do believe it worthwhile. Sounds as though it's a good place and and worth the effort if you are going to do the "estate" thing.

I would echo this advice. Sounds like a very nice shop that you have access to locally. A lot of us just don't have the luxury of a good shop close to us and would kill for a shop with even a limited selection of decent estates. Try not to get too locked into the stance that they "cheated" you and see if you can salvage a working relationship with those folks.

By the way, how do you realistically restore a vulcanite stem? While what I read in this thread implies that oxidized vulcanite can be rejuvinated, believe me that nothing the boys did or said in Edleez made that the least bit apparent, which is why I actually considered it "damaged".

It's actually very do-able and can be very fun and fulfilling. I've shared a photo in the past of an extremely oxidized stem. I have since taken the time to restore that stem. Below is a before and after of the resto. I not only cleaned and polished the stem to it's original color but also repaired a chip in the bit, which is much more difficult than a little bit of chatter.
Do hang around and don't let this one experience color your perception of the hobby. You might even catch the restoration bug which adds a whole new dimension to the hobby.

 

[puffndave]

Me: For example, the most senior boy out of the 4 or 5 on the floor (may have been around the age of 25) knew nothing about polishing compounds such as Obsidian.
Sablebrush52:

Probably because Obsidian Oil isn't a polishing compound. It fills microscopic pits in the surface to give a more polished appearance while also protecting the vulcanite from oxidation.

So I don't know what Obsidian is then, and then I have no idea what it is that some have called "white compound" (seriously?) either. The point is that there is a lot of stuff which may matter which a lot of people don't know when they first begin their pipe collections, and those who respond as you have are jaded with the expert's perspective of forgetting what it's like to not be an expert when you were just beginning. To expect a beginning collector to have an expert's understanding and be prepared to do the work which few beginners would have the skills for - now that's just wrong. I do sincerely hope you are more reasonable than that.
Anyway, if the guy who sells pipes which sometimes oxidize in his store knows nothing on how to restore them, and attempts to polish it with WATER (with the results which you can expect), then why should the new pipe buyer consider it acceptable that the unexpected chore is imminent, and for him to do immediately after purchase?

 

[warren]

"White" is a grade of buffing compound. Rouge is also called "jeweler's" polish. There are a few others. The white is a fine compound used on a rag or, for pipes, a low speed buffer.
You have lots to learn. If you really want to be a collector of pipes you have a ton of things to learn. It's akin to collecting antiques or dealing in art. There are many arcane facts to learn and many mistakes to make. Accept it! With a decent attitude many of the members here will go out of their way to assist you in learning. Being argumentative is not a plus. Sarcasm is not a plus. Pleasant is a plus. Acknowledging one's lack of knowledge is a plus. A thirst for knowledge is a plus.
I do not collect and have a certain respect for those that do. There are more than a few here who just "amass" pipes. A dedicated few are knowledgeable and most of them quite willing to share information and offer insight.
You got off on the wrong foot here but, your latest posts reflect less hostility. So, good luck!

 

[puffndave]

Thanks, Warren, and the rest of you as well, and to those with whom I got a bit hot under the collar with I apologize.
However - Warren:

You have lots to learn. If you really want to be a collector of pipes you have a ton of things to learn. It's akin to collecting antiques or dealing in art.

But that is exactly what I don't want to do. I just want to collect a comfortable number, say a dozen or so (not including my cob workhorses), which I'm nearly at, not that they are all stellar. Once I have a few good, smokable, and reasonably aesthetic pipes, a nice and practical mix of styles I like, including just a couple which are better than Grabow and Kaywoodie just to know what they are like, then I should be set for life other than tobacco and living expenses. If I spend so much on tobacco that I can't afford food, well my doctor wouldn't fret me losing a few pounds, but at least I can always use good tobacco. If I decide to start a new hobby, it will more likely be with mixing my own tobacco than collecting pipes which I'll never use and haven't the real estate to store. Which is why I find it a little ridiculous this attitude which I get from the collectors that I shouldn't go buying a new pipe without being prepared for every chore which they do for fun.

 

[warren]

I misread understood "collecting."
If you like the look of a shiny, black bit you will have to clean it now and then. Nothing serious. I polish the bit with tooth paste to remove the oxidation, shine it up with a bit of buffing paste and then a coat of Obsidian. I doubt I do this more than once a year with any one pipe. It can be done quickly and easily when you clean your pipes if you see that it is necessary. It's really not a chore, just something that needs to be done now and then.
I suggest your pipe rack or storage device not be in a place where it gets a lot of direct sunshine.
The beauty of pipe maintenance is that you can leisurely enjoy a bowl as you do the weekly cleaning chore. At least that is how I do it.
I do not buy used (estates?) pipes as a matter of personal preference. I do not buy a pipe I have not physically inspected so, I do not purchase on line. I no longer have a shop in my area (I envy those that do) and only purchase when in Ireland, England or Chicago. I have a couple of dozen pipes and do not feel the need to buy a new pipe, all of mine smoke well and 24 is a reasonable number to own. Again, my personal preference. This rotation took me 40 some years to gather. The majority of them have been with me for at least 20 years.
I think purchasing from any of the site sponsors is reasonably safe with regard to quality and support. Other members can vouch for the retailers through their dealings with them. If I was new to the diversion of the pipe I would use the search function on the site and enter a few of the retailer names. Most of the threads will reflect satisfaction.
You will, in your experiences, at some time come across a pipe with a shape, grain or finish that you really "must" own which will have a defect (fill, dent, etc.) or issue of some sort. With a bit of experience you will be able to "suck it up," make a reasonable offer and either live with the imperfection, have it repaired or learn to do it yourself.
My favorite Peterson suffered a small dent when a customer or clerk dropped it on the floor. Not a glaring imperfection to be sure but, still it was there. The shape, size, fit of the sterling lid and collar, etc. were impeccable. I made an offer and walked away with fairly expensive pipe for which I paid much less than retail. The wee dent adds an appealing bit of imperfection to an otherwise, in my eye, a perfect pipe.
Remember, there is a learning curve. Just getting the bowl filled correctly requires experiment and experience. Do not get frustrated and keep your eye on the goal. Embrace the failures and learn from them.

 

[puffndave]

Warren:

"White" is a grade of buffing compound. Rouge is also called "jeweler's" polish. There are a few others. The white is a fine compound used on a rag or, for pipes, a low speed buffer.

I know a little (just barely enough) of compounds for metal blades. I have another, more practical hobby with straight razors for shaving, which like my pipe collection will not expand beyond reasonable and practical limits, and I did enter this one with informed anticipation that it would not be maintenance-free. I actually enjoy most of the work which keeps those blades sharp, and would like to learn more about sharpening and restoring blades in general, but I don't really feel the same on adding a lot of chores beyond the necessary cleaning associated with items which exist purely for pleasure. But if I were to order the compounds which I would need to avoid paying professionals to do this, then I would be concerned with names by which to find them - for example, green paste is CrOz (Chromium Oxide). It's a fine abrasive which you add to a strop to fine-tune the edge easily, and make it sharper than what most common hones can do alone. However, you cannot order it as "green paste", it's CrO2, Chromium Oxide, or sometimes just Crox. So, what do you call the white compound when you are looking to buy some?
The fact that rubber can also oxidize is a new concept to me. I never saw any rust on my tires..do yours ever get rusty?

 

[warren]

Past is probably an ill selected term. Buffing compound is the better term. You purchase by color. I get it a Walmart, Loewes, etc. I use white and red. The red is also known as jewelers rouge.
I have no technical knowledge as to what goes into the manufacture of ebonite. I presume something in the compound or manufacturing process causes the oxidation. More knowledgeable members will be able to answer. There was a recent thread in the past couple of months. I do know tires deteriorate over time, cracking, discoloring, etc. from ultraviolet.
This thread is getting way off base and you might want to consider starting another after you do a search. I suspect the opening salvo severely reduced member interest.
I'm off to bed. Luck to you.

 

[ssjones]

Let me be clear, I've visited the shop on numerous occasions, during different seasons and angles of the sun. I did not see any pipes that would have had "sun damaged" stems. I don't pick up low grade pipes, they don't interest me. So it's possible some of those may have had some oxidation.
There were (and I bet still are) many estates there on the wall mount shelves that have oxidized vulcanite stems. These are used and have not been restored and are completely acceptable (and in my case, desired).
Here is the Sasieni stem I picked off the wall. This has only light oxidation and was an easy restoration.

As I requested, please post a picture of the pipe in question and the stem.
Without a picture, further comment is like asking if your hair cut looks nice. It's impossible to say.