Is It Taboo For New Members To Post Critically Of Local Merchant experiences?

[kola]

I would have taken the refund. IMO your decision for a "fix" escalated the issue. In all due respect this probably ain't the answer you wanted to hear but hey....you asked, I told.

 

[cosmicfolklore]

I had a similar experience with a banjo about ten years ago. It was a local luthier who made it, but because of my heavy handedness and they're horrible instruction, I cracked the bridge. I tried to explain that I wasn't totally blaming them, I was willing to pay whatever. I just wanted the thing to work. But, it was hemming and hawing over the whole thing. I would just have preferred them to say that will be such and such dollars to fix. I would have payed, they would have fixed. I could then proceed to Dueling Banjos. But, they made it right. He did it for free despite my saying that I would gladly pay, but it was his whole attitude, the roll of an eye, a tone in his voice.
I had considered not ever setting foot in their again, but I needed strings for guitars, ukuleles, banjos, and fiddles occasionally, and it was just down the road. But they never carried the exact strings that I wanted, so I always had to special request them. I mean, when I come in every month, couldn't they just keep them in stock? Anyways, every time I came back, I got a feeling that they were just being snide, mainly because they had to fix the bridge that I offered to pay, but he chose to be an ass about it. I would have rather paid and been greeted with a smile, but I got it for free and was from then on out greeted with a snarl.
Then, when I asked for my not so unusual request for strings one day, he told me to go order them online, pointing me to the door. Thus, ensuring I have no reason to return to that store again. I can't figure out human nature sometimes. Some people just shoot themselves in the foot. But, like with the strings, you can more easily find cheaper tobaccos online and a better selection. If going in there causes you stress, then by all means, do what is less stressful. Human beings are so damn weird.

 

[cortezattic]

8O Wow! You dun e-jack-ulated a mouthful! :lol:

Warren, I have done that, dealt with the owner, and although I walked away with what I wanted, my business relationship with that store was destroyed in the process. This is what happens when you believe his business practices were foul in the deal he gave you, and you have to either walk away from it unhappy, or confront him on it. For what I had at stake and the importance to me of honest business practices, I had to do the latter, and I watched him and his boss graduate from questionable to outright dishonest. Or maybe you may see it differently, depending on your own perspective.
The situation was with Edleez Tobacco in Guilderland (Albany), NY. I'm aware that some people on this forum have had experiences there, most of them positive, as has been the case with me up until recently. I discovered pipe tobacco at that store about 15 years ago, but never got very serious about smoking pipes until recently, when it became a habit to displace those which are more eminently dangerous to me at this point in my life. The store isn't nearly so big as Russ Oulette's store in the same city (Pipes and Cigars / Habana Premium), but the service has been friendly, and the few blends which they offer (including a few great house blends) are very good. Also on the upside, they really make it easier to browse and price pipes than the local competition.
The problem may have something to do with the fact that the founding proprieter, Edward Zyniecki and his wife died just over a year ago before the incident which I experienced in March of this year. My condolences to the surviving family.
THE BUY

When I walked in, I was in the mood for a new pipe, and had been reading up a bit on brands, prices, much about bowl shapes and stems, and while I was aware enough of the disadvantages of vulcanite stems that I already had a preference for acrylic stems, I found them to be in many makes the exception more than the rule with most quality pipes on my budget. I knew also that I wanted a straight, with much texture relief for cooling and rustic appeal, and the Butz-Chopin Montmartre, with it's very nicely-finished sandblasted bowl and beautiful crosscut grain on the rim really jumped out at me. I had heard of and seen some photos of vulcanite corruption, but the stem on this one didn't speak of corruption as I could imagine it, and I wondered what the material actually was. It wasn't shiny black, but the surface wasn't the least bit blotchy either, and it really appeared to my inexperienced eye that it was made purposefully with a smooth matte finish. I thought it may be a type of acrylic, not that I've ever seen any acrylic stems which are solid-colored and opaque, but the sales assistant said it was "probably" vulcanite. It also happened to be on the estate shelf, and after asking several questions about the restoration of estate pipes (none for which he could give much of an answer for), I decided that it didn't look problematic, and that it looked like a beautiful and probably good smoker for $60. I later found out that the same pipe sells now for little more than that, and on some sites the same price (new) on sale, on the online market, although some are still demanding close to $100 for it.
THE PROBLEM

When I smoked it later that same day, I learned there was something wrong with that pipe stem. After just one bowl, the stem tip had turned a disgusting, blotchy, greenish brown just from being in my mouth! I already had vulcanite stems which were decades old, with no such problems (maybe because they were kept in the dark, but I didn't know yet how that works). Questions posted to this forum revealed the truth about a vulcanite stem which isn't jet black and shiny: it's bad! But how did it first turn to a dull, dark shade of brown without turning blotchy under prior use? It was supposedly an estate pipe, right?
THE TRUTH

Two days later I had made time to make the call to straighten this out with the store management. Having four guys present in a store that size may show a committment to service, but there should also be at least one there who can answer better questions than the most mature guy who happened to be there then, and since Edleez failed me on that point, I insisted on speaking directly to management. I spoke with Jill (not sure whether she is Ed's daughter-in-law, Jill Ziedecki), who assured me that her store policy is satisfaction-based, and that a store tech would help me resolve the problem without so much as a receipt. While I didn't actually have to show a receipt, I still didn't get much help. I had read a little (without really knowing anything) about stem polishing compounds at that point, including Obsidian, but the most senior sales associate there couldn't offer better than to attempt to polish the blotches out with water (which didn't help at all) or a full refund (which I didn't want, because I still thought I had a good deal of a smoker for the price, and anticipated that my best alternative for such satisfaction was to pay a bit more for a new one where I could find it). I was also getting a bit angry over the time which this had already cost me, so I pressed on for some other sort of recourse, not understanding how difficult it can be to match a new stem with a pipe which has been smoked, even once. Chalk this up to my ignorance, but I was also confused by what the owner had told me about this "estate" pipe on the phone - that it wasn't really an estate pipe! What the hell did she mean by that, she did not elaborate, and I figured she didn't really know what her boys were doing with all of her merchandise. Anyway, I made no progress with Visit Number 2, and walked out of there smoldering more than any of my pipes had recently.
TWO WEEKS LATER:

Got a message from "Mike", who said he had a pipe in with which he hopes to "resolve my issue". This was a complete surprise to me, as I had not expected this, although it remains my opinion that this is exactly what should have been done in the first place. The next day, I put the pipe in my car, but I left it there when I walked in. Mike, who is apparently the junior member of the sales staff (looks like he's barely old enough to buy tobacco legally) looked at this middle-aged guy and said in a really terse voice "here's how it works - I need to see your pipe first"! By this time, I understood very clearly what was wrong with the pipe and what was wrong with the store personnel regarding it - it had been left under sunlight or flourescent lighting for too long, causing a non-blotchy decay because it hadn't been used or handled much, it was a nasty surprise just waiting to happen to an unsuspecting buyer - this store had taken advantage of my inexperience and played me for a chump, and boy was I ever pissed! Maybe I didn't really think I should expect a brand-new, completely uncorrupted pipe while keeping the other one which was fine but for a crappy stem (bad enough that you wouldn't want to pay close to or on par with new market value for), but hey, I had to try. I steamed out of there and came back with the crappy-stemmed pipe, and then Mike produced the new one, with a proper uncorrupted vulcanite stem. But then he proceeded insult me further! He removed the new stem from the new pipe, removed the crappy stem from the pipe which they had sold me, and then tried to fit the new stem into that pipe. "Aha - it doesn't fit! You've been smoking it!" Which I had gone over with in detail with his boss, Jill, the store owner! Of course I smoked it, once, which is the only way I would have found out how problematic it really was! Jill, you really shouldn't encourage some asswipe kid behind the counter to further insult your customers when they have gone out of their way, as a matter of principal to not just get satisfaction for the sales expectations of their purchase, but as a favor to you so that you won't have more customers complaining over such a sale, which never should have taken place under the existing conditions. Not saying that you can't sell an otherwise fine pipe with a little UV-rot on the stem, but you really should be forthcoming with such problems instead of preying on unsuspecting buyers. Anyway, I didn't back down. Mike attempted to contact his senior associate, who wasn't working that day, trying to weasel his way out of doing the right thing. I believe he contacted Jill as well. At some point while I was refusing to give in, I learned what Jill meant by "not an estate pipe", which I was sure I had pulled off the "Estate Pipes" shelf, which is that it was new, unsmoked (as I knew when I smoked it) but sold with the estate pipes for being made less-than on account of light exposure over time. Mike had also had the sense of butthurt to try and reason me away over the devaluation caused by my smoking it (as if it hadn't been damaged by the store and then sold to me that way. It was then that I served up to Boy Mike with my sincere disappointment that such a long-established and reputable store would be so dishonest and unforthcoming regarding the condition of the merchandise sold there, at which point he had to let me walk out with the all-new pipe.
I got the matter resolved, and while I don't regret what I did to have the sales staff make good for the nasty little trick they pulled, and have since learned the benefit of buying pipes online (they're warehoused in their boxes), it is unfortunate that it was at the cost of no longer being able to visit that store for the few tobacco blends which I like. Perhaps some of you, as part of the pipe-buying culture initiated, may think there is nothing unusual or particularly unforthcoming about the way that pipe was sold, but it sure is a hell of a gotcha for those who get all of their information online, where there the filters for the most situation-relevant information may fail, when you don't associate directly with other pipe smokers. Whatever your opinion may be concerning what the store personnel did and what I did, it is appreciated.

 

[cosmicfolklore]

To be fair, he did ask if he could ejaculate beforehand, and they waved him on through. Ha ha!

 

[peckinpahhombre]

I had a similar experience with a banjo about ten years ago.

I hope this story doesn't involve you squealing like a piggy. Please advise, so we can make an informed decision as to whether we should read the rest of your tale.

 

[davet]

It was a difficult read but what I came away with was, they offered a full refund from the start, that would have been the end of the problem for me.Anything after that is on you to negotiate a mutually agreeable solution.

 

[cosmicfolklore]

I hope this story doesn't involve you squealing like a piggy. Please advise, so we can make an informed decision as to whether we should read the rest of your tale.

Why, I'm insulted. I am no squealer. But, if you have a pretty mouth, I suggest picking up the pace of your paddling. Ha ha!!

 

[seacaptain]

I hope this story doesn't involve you squealing like a piggy. Please advise, so we can make an informed decision as to whether we should read the rest of your tale.

:lol: I'm sure someone will be along any minute with a bow story - "so, I was out with my friends on a camping trip and after killing a man with my longbow, I noticed the lower stabilizer rod had a small crack, so I took it back to the store and.........."

 

[pipestud]

Warren, I have done that, dealt with the owner, and although I walked away with what I wanted, my business relationship with that store was destroyed in the process. This is what happens when you believe his business practices were foul in the deal he gave you, and you have to either walk away from it unhappy, or confront him on it. For what I had at stake and the importance to me of honest business practices, I had to do the latter, and I watched him and his boss graduate from questionable to outright dishonest. Or maybe you may see it differently, depending on your own perspective.
The situation was with Edleez Tobacco in Guilderland (Albany), NY. I'm aware that some people on this forum have had experiences there, most of them positive, as has been the case with me up until recently. I discovered pipe tobacco at that store about 15 years ago, but never got very serious about smoking pipes until recently, when it became a habit to displace those which are more eminently dangerous to me at this point in my life. The store isn't nearly so big as Russ Oulette's store in the same city (Pipes and Cigars / Habana Premium), but the service has been friendly, and the few blends which they offer (including a few great house blends) are very good. Also on the upside, they really make it easier to browse and price pipes than the local competition.
The problem may have something to do with the fact that the founding proprieter, Edward Zyniecki and his wife died just over a year ago before the incident which I experienced in March of this year. My condolences to the surviving family.
THE BUY

When I walked in, I was in the mood for a new pipe, and had been reading up a bit on brands, prices, much about bowl shapes and stems, and while I was aware enough of the disadvantages of vulcanite stems that I already had a preference for acrylic stems, I found them to be in many makes the exception more than the rule with most quality pipes on my budget. I knew also that I wanted a straight, with much texture relief for cooling and rustic appeal, and the Butz-Chopin Montmartre, with it's very nicely-finished sandblasted bowl and beautiful crosscut grain on the rim really jumped out at me. I had heard of and seen some photos of vulcanite corruption, but the stem on this one didn't speak of corruption as I could imagine it, and I wondered what the material actually was. It wasn't shiny black, but the surface wasn't the least bit blotchy either, and it really appeared to my inexperienced eye that it was made purposefully with a smooth matte finish. I thought it may be a type of acrylic, not that I've ever seen any acrylic stems which are solid-colored and opaque, but the sales assistant said it was "probably" vulcanite. It also happened to be on the estate shelf, and after asking several questions about the restoration of estate pipes (none for which he could give much of an answer for), I decided that it didn't look problematic, and that it looked like a beautiful and probably good smoker for $60. I later found out that the same pipe sells now for little more than that, and on some sites the same price (new) on sale, on the online market, although some are still demanding close to $100 for it.
THE PROBLEM

When I smoked it later that same day, I learned there was something wrong with that pipe stem. After just one bowl, the stem tip had turned a disgusting, blotchy, greenish brown just from being in my mouth! I already had vulcanite stems which were decades old, with no such problems (maybe because they were kept in the dark, but I didn't know yet how that works). Questions posted to this forum revealed the truth about a vulcanite stem which isn't jet black and shiny: it's bad! But how did it first turn to a dull, dark shade of brown without turning blotchy under prior use? It was supposedly an estate pipe, right?
THE TRUTH

Two days later I had made time to make the call to straighten this out with the store management. Having four guys present in a store that size may show a committment to service, but there should also be at least one there who can answer better questions than the most mature guy who happened to be there then, and since Edleez failed me on that point, I insisted on speaking directly to management. I spoke with Jill (not sure whether she is Ed's daughter-in-law, Jill Ziedecki), who assured me that her store policy is satisfaction-based, and that a store tech would help me resolve the problem without so much as a receipt. While I didn't actually have to show a receipt, I still didn't get much help. I had read a little (without really knowing anything) about stem polishing compounds at that point, including Obsidian, but the most senior sales associate there couldn't offer better than to attempt to polish the blotches out with water (which didn't help at all) or a full refund (which I didn't want, because I still thought I had a good deal of a smoker for the price, and anticipated that my best alternative for such satisfaction was to pay a bit more for a new one where I could find it). I was also getting a bit angry over the time which this had already cost me, so I pressed on for some other sort of recourse, not understanding how difficult it can be to match a new stem with a pipe which has been smoked, even once. Chalk this up to my ignorance, but I was also confused by what the owner had told me about this "estate" pipe on the phone - that it wasn't really an estate pipe! What the hell did she mean by that, she did not elaborate, and I figured she didn't really know what her boys were doing with all of her merchandise. Anyway, I made no progress with Visit Number 2, and walked out of there smoldering more than any of my pipes had recently.
TWO WEEKS LATER:

Got a message from "Mike", who said he had a pipe in with which he hopes to "resolve my issue". This was a complete surprise to me, as I had not expected this, although it remains my opinion that this is exactly what should have been done in the first place. The next day, I put the pipe in my car, but I left it there when I walked in. Mike, who is apparently the junior member of the sales staff (looks like he's barely old enough to buy tobacco legally) looked at this middle-aged guy and said in a really terse voice "here's how it works - I need to see your pipe first"! By this time, I understood very clearly what was wrong with the pipe and what was wrong with the store personnel regarding it - it had been left under sunlight or flourescent lighting for too long, causing a non-blotchy decay because it hadn't been used or handled much, it was a nasty surprise just waiting to happen to an unsuspecting buyer - this store had taken advantage of my inexperience and played me for a chump, and boy was I ever pissed! Maybe I didn't really think I should expect a brand-new, completely uncorrupted pipe while keeping the other one which was fine but for a crappy stem (bad enough that you wouldn't want to pay close to or on par with new market value for), but hey, I had to try. I steamed out of there and came back with the crappy-stemmed pipe, and then Mike produced the new one, with a proper uncorrupted vulcanite stem. But then he proceeded insult me further! He removed the new stem from the new pipe, removed the crappy stem from the pipe which they had sold me, and then tried to fit the new stem into that pipe. "Aha - it doesn't fit! You've been smoking it!" Which I had gone over with in detail with his boss, Jill, the store owner! Of course I smoked it, once, which is the only way I would have found out how problematic it really was! Jill, you really shouldn't encourage some asswipe kid behind the counter to further insult your customers when they have gone out of their way, as a matter of principal to not just get satisfaction for the sales expectations of their purchase, but as a favor to you so that you won't have more customers complaining over such a sale, which never should have taken place under the existing conditions. Not saying that you can't sell an otherwise fine pipe with a little UV-rot on the stem, but you really should be forthcoming with such problems instead of preying on unsuspecting buyers. Anyway, I didn't back down. Mike attempted to contact his senior associate, who wasn't working that day, trying to weasel his way out of doing the right thing. I believe he contacted Jill as well. At some point while I was refusing to give in, I learned what Jill meant by "not an estate pipe", which I was sure I had pulled off the "Estate Pipes" shelf, which is that it was new, unsmoked (as I knew when I smoked it) but sold with the estate pipes for being made less-than on account of light exposure over time. Mike had also had the sense of butthurt to try and reason me away over the devaluation caused by my smoking it (as if it hadn't been damaged by the store and then sold to me that way. It was then that I served up to Boy Mike with my sincere disappointment that such a long-established and reputable store would be so dishonest and unforthcoming regarding the condition of the merchandise sold there, at which point he had to let me walk out with the all-new pipe.
I got the matter resolved, and while I don't regret what I did to have the sales staff make good for the nasty little trick they pulled, and have since learned the benefit of buying pipes online (they're warehoused in their boxes), it is unfortunate that it was at the cost of no longer being able to visit that store for the few tobacco blends which I like. Perhaps some of you, as part of the pipe-buying culture initiated, may think there is nothing unusual or particularly unforthcoming about the way that pipe was sold, but it sure is a hell of a gotcha for those who get all of their information online, where there the filters for the most situation-relevant information may fail, when you don't associate directly with other pipe smokers. Whatever your opinion may be concerning what the store personnel did and what I did, it is appreciated.

ZZZzzz...

 

[michiganlover]

The store offered a full refund, they thus satisfied what would be expected for customer service. They actually went above and beyond by tracking down a new pipe that was exactly what you wanted. I'm not sure what they were trying to accomplish by giving you just the new stem off the new pipe. Assuming that would have worked, they would've had a new pipe and the old stem, a combo they can't sell. The same end result as them giving you the new pipe and keeping the old one. They were still out whatever it cost them to get the replacement pipe.
Your anger when they requested the original pipe to be swapped was unjustified. The fact that you thought you might get away with keeping both pipes doesn't sit well with me; it feels like you were trying to scam the store.
I feel you should've taken the refund and been done with the situation.

 

[andrew]

Lol @ pipestud, I have to say though it's quite a well written essay

 

[seacaptain]

I don't think this is going quite like the OP expected.
If anyone does ebay much, you'll know that you run into these types of "customers". They buy something, then when they get it say "I noticed a problem.......what can you do for me? Maybe a partial refund, or send me something extra." My response is always "You can send it back for a full refund if you're not satisfied".
I don't even engage in "negotiations" with people like that. Most of them are just looking for a partial refund or a freebie. It's not worth my time. A full refund offer is a legitimate and appropriate response to any problem in a retail situation.
Even if the problem is real, it doesn't mean the seller is dishonest or is trying to "scam" anyone. Sometimes mistakes are made, and sometimes people just aren't satisfied. Again, regardless of whether the problem is real or not, a full refund offer is a legitimate and reasonable response to a dissatisfied customer. If the customer expects anything else, the customer is being unreasonable in my opinion.

 

[pipestud]

Lol @ pipestud, I have to say though it's quite a well written essay -

I'll just take your word for it, Andy. I fell asleep way too early in that post to render judgement. :wink:
Pipestud

 

[seacaptain]

By the way, I'm not picking on you personally OP. I'm just comparing similar issues in dealing with ebay people. I'm new here too, I hope you take the replies constructively and stick around.

 

[newbroom]

I'll just take your word for it, Andy. I fell asleep way too early in that post to render judgement.

It's why I've never read Tolstoy. I'm intimidated by the sheer volume of War and Peace.

 

[seacaptain]

It's why I've never read Tolstoy. I'm intimidated by the sheer volume of War and Peace.

You should try these instead then.

 

[cigrmaster]

They offered you a full refund and that is where this story should have ended. Everything that came after that was of your own making. Pretty simple I think.

 

[warren]

War and Peace might hold your attention.
I just read enough of the above to establish "no harm-no foul." The vendor satisfied the customer in a clumsy manner and the customer won't darken their door again. Sounded like a win-win for the retailer. Sometimes customers can be very needy. Get them satisfied and out the door. Some customers do indeed cost more than they bring in with regards to moneys paid and aggravation caused.

 

[newbroom]

I've been reading up on Tolstoy since I made that comment and wonder why I haven't yet read his stuff.

He sounds like an admirable character.

 

[andrew]

Srsly, considering the pipe was smoked and they still gave you a refund that's pretty top notch customer service in my opinion. In my neck of the woods if you bought a new pipe, smoked it, then decided after you'd inspected it and bought it at the store that pipe would be yours after you decided to smoke it, and there wouldn't be any offer of a refund unless there was some really obvious manufacturers defect that you'd missed. Stems oxidize,

I'm not busting your balls either, I just don't see the problem.