Who Are The Real Tobacco Snobs?

[anotherbob]

At the end of the day you're going to pay what it's worth to you maybe a bit more or less. This thread reminds me of people who think I am mad for paying 20 or even 40 dollars for a bottle of booze. The thing is I get so much more out of something I can savor then something that just goes down easy enough. And yeah if I was getting drunk all the time that would be too much to spend but a couple drinks to unwind where as much of the reward comes from really paying attention and savoring it as it does from the fact that it's got alcohol in it. I guess my point is it's all relative and depends on what you want out of it. Also love seeing peoples eyes bulge out when I tell them most of my pipes cost around 100 dollars and that no it's not going to certainly smoke better then a 40 dollar pipe. I think where I roll my eyes are the people who think they're going to get something magical because it's old. As long as they know what they're buying relatively and know why they're willing to drop that kind of cash on something that in many ways is the same thing you can get for 15 but in others is that unique then it's fine. All collectors and such look mad to people that don't have the same bug.

 

[bullet08]

Real snobs are easy to find. Ones who say "I'm a bit of (put your item of desire) snob. Just a wee bit. But I don't mind drinking (smoking) out of glass (cob) on occasions, my good fella."

 

[Peterson314]

This debate is why I love the pipe community so much. This is one of the few places where anyone can fall anywhere on the spectrum of an issue and still enjoy the conversation. Or at least stay relatively civil.

I can see both sides. It is a bit insane that a $40 bag of tobacco can be flipped for 5x its price. However, tobacco is a collectible, and every collectible market has a hierarchy. Arguing about the value of collectibles is part of the hobby, but there's no reason to be upset that the hierarchy exists.

I like plenty of $20 tins. I'm happy with the few $50 tins I have in my cellar. But I find the most enjoyment when I discover a world-class, in-production blend that I can stock up on for just a couple bucks.

We each have our own journey. There's no one correct way to enjoy this hobby.

 

[HawkeyeLinus]

I don't agree that the "relaxed nature of the hobby" has disappeared. It's been joined by a competitive market in discontinued blends that gets partially warped by irrational mythologizing about a few specific "star" blends and resulting frenzy of the curious, besotted, competitive, or status seeking to obtain them. These are the "Cabbage Patch Kids" of the tobacco smoking world:

The strange story of the Cabbage Patch Kid Riots of 1983

In November 1983, America went bonkers for Cabbage Patch Kids.

abc7ny.com

Cabbage Patch riots - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

People get fixated on something they decide they must have for no healthy rational reason. Other people see this as a business opportunity, amassing hoards of a desired item and reselling for a huge mark up. Happened with Playstation 5

Video Exposes Walmart Warehouse Hoarding PlayStation Consoles Amid Supply Chain Issues | Entrepreneur

One worker's TikTok showing a storage facility at Walmart is going viral amid the pre-holiday shopping surge.

www.entrepreneur.com

Consumers warned of bots hoarding PS5s and other must-have items

Calls for UK ban on software that secures stocks of goods such as Xbox Series X and PlayStation 5

www.theguardian.com

People will find ingenious ways to fuck each other around and to justify it. It's just a part of who we are.

Like all frenzies, this one will peak and burst. It will get ugly first to do that, and there are signs that that energy is gathering, B&M's charging way more than retail, requiring other purchases to "qualify" for the "star" blend, flippers becoming more of the norm, all classic "late stage" signs.

So while that circus goes on, the rest of the pipe smoking firmament sails on serenely unchanged. It's just that some new wrinkles have been added to it.

Time out!!

I’m being labeled a Cabbage Patch Kid for being curious about Christmas Cheer? That’s worse than “snob”! No labels!

If I had any feelings, I’d be emotionally wounded!

 

[anotherbob]

Happy to see Steve pop in and I think it's a fair response to a pretty disappointing, stir the pot with expletives thread starter that pointed a finger unfairly in one direction for sure, and questioned motives to provoke "debate" - not really in the spirit of having a discussion.

It wasn't a thread started in the spirit of what I see @sablebrush52 identifying as a distinction and I'm not sure his well spoken point is really all that much in conflict with the post that started this thread, based on Steve's definition of the term and the context provided, but I understand his point as well and forums are for opinions, maybe it's not so much don't be a "Tobacco Snob" as just kind of not being a dumbass on purpose --- I've wished for a much longer window for editing on a couple of occasions.

Thanks to Steve for what he provides as a service and he does it the right way, IMO. Anything supporting outlets for obtaining tobacco and pipes and whatever goes with them should be celebrated --- folks should pick or choose whatever gets them what they want or need and not really care what or how others pick or choose. Sort out the ones you want to deal with, learn from your experiences and the shared experiences of others, which this place helps to do, usually in pretty constructive and often simultaneously entertaining ways.

Pretty much just like anything else.

neat I some how missed that. I keep forgetting my new years resolution. To have as little of a life as possible and spend more time online.

 

[warren]

Hobby smokers are breed apart. Pipe smokers endure the vicissitudes of the vice. Laughing in the face of danger. Hobbyists? They simply dabble in manly man's vice.

 

[telescopes]

I believe the issue comes down to how some of the secondary market is artificially created. When Esoterica is swiped up at what are basically reasonably cheap prices by individuals whose only goal it to keep it off the market so they can create a secondary market at sky high prices later, it does create some issues worthy of discussion. If Esoterica was to offer their tins for $120.00 a tin, the tins would stay on the shelf for years. Esoterica would go out of business because demand would not meet the price point. Esoterica sets a price it knows that most people can afford and at which they are sure to sell out their product. What happens is scalpers decrease the supply available so that demand exceeds supply. This creates resentment from users. Is it legal? Maybe. Is it moral or ethical. That is what is debatable. The issue isn't with the people who pay the marked up prices nor is it with Steve, who is merely a broker for the secondary market and whose services provide a necessary function.

One remedy would be to limit the number of purchases a buyer could make each day for highly sought after tobaccos. The limits could be set for a week after the shipment has arrived at the internet sellers and then removed at a set time later. But this would have to come from Esoterica as a part of their contract. This would respect the market as well as the buyers giving all who are interested an opportunity to succeed in a purchase or greater.

 

[craig61a]

vicissitudes of the vice.

Whoa Daddy, stand back…

 

[cosmicfolklore]

Maybe. Is it moral or ethical.

The reason I believe it is not immoral or unethical is because tobacco is not a necessity. The outrage comes mostly from those who have never even tried it, so it is FOMO that is causing the outrage. Also, I guarantee you that someone who has tried it is not spending $350 to keep stocked up, unless they are crazy. I can be pretty loose with my wallet. I don;t hesitate to drop +$1000 on a pipe I want, but Fugk no am I spending that kind of money on an aromatic... or even any tobacco.

If this were baby food, insulin, or gas... it would be different. But, it is something that no one actually needs... like Beanie Babies.

So, the flippers don't make me happy, but the whining from the FOMO crowd is just as annoying, which is why I avoided the whole debate thread to begin with.

I can honestly say, in all sincerity that I believe that Esotericas are not worth that kid of money. But, if one wishes to spend that kind of money to find out, you are more than welcome to... and Pipestud's website would be an excellent place to find it.

 

[sablebrush52]

Is it moral or ethical. That is what is debatable. The issue isn't with the people who pay the marked up prices nor is it with Steve, who is merely a broker for the secondary market and whose services provide a necessary function.

Judging from many of the comments in this thread, the question of morality stands outside the scope of context. This is about the business of selling tobacco, not about the pleasures of smoking it. Flippers aren't flipping rare tobaccos because they love them. it's just money in the bank. When this well runs dry they will look to flip something else and not look back. Concern about others doesn't enter into the equation. In this context I'm defining flippers as people who buy with the intent to immediately sell for a profit, not people who may be selling parts of their holding because situations have changed financially, or they realize that they bought more than they will ever use, or just don't like what they bought. On Tinbids I'm seeing a lot of 2022 product. It used to be much older product that was getting sold off.

Also, there's the perception that desirable tobaccos are not a necessity, like shelter, food, clothing, or medication. Comments would be quite different if it involved gouging on some life saving medication. Fairness seems to matter less to people when it comes to frills than with necessities. We are situationally moral.

 

[sablebrush52]

Time out!!

I’m being labeled a Cabbage Patch Kid for being curious about Christmas Cheer? That’s worse than “snob”! No labels!

If I had any feelings, I’d be emotionally wounded!

This is the problem with not checking my paragraph structure when inserting a new thought. The Esoterica and other "star" tobacco frenzy is the new "Cabbage Patch Kids" NOT the people striving over them.

 

[telescopes]

Judging from many of the comments in this thread, the question of morality stands outside the scope of context. We are situationally moral.

I think morality is something our "modern" sensibilities have becomes desensitized too either addressing or acknowledging.

Whether it is moral or not is not something I am ready to commit to providing an answer. But I do think the question of morality of taking advantage of a selling situation to create a shortage and drive up one's ability to make a profit is something that lingers in the minds of more than a few people. Because we as modern people are adverse in calling out our moral beliefs - and describing the exchange of goods and services only in terms of economic theories and principles - it is a question that may linger in the minds of people but can not express itself as such. So, what we get is outrage, anger, and platitudes. Your responses in this thread have been spot on and sympathetic to many points of views.

One question that is worth asking is "Do other pipe smokers get to determine what is an essential need for other pipe smokers?"

"Who determines what is essential for other people?"

 

[sablebrush52]

I think morality is something our "modern" sensibilities have becomes desensitized too either addressing or acknowledging.

Whether it is moral or not is not something I am ready to commit to providing an answer. But I do think the question of morality of taking advantage of a selling situation to create a shortage and drive up one's ability to make a profit is something that lingers in the minds of more than a few people. Because we as modern people are adverse in calling out our moral beliefs - and describing the exchange of goods and services only in terms of economic theories and principles - it is a question that may linger in the minds of people but can not express itself as such. So, what we get is outrage, anger, and platitudes. Your responses in this thread have been spot on and sympathetic to many points of views.

One question that is worth asking is "Do other pipe smokers get to determine what is an essential need for other pipe smokers?"

"Who determines what is essential for other people?"

GREAT QUESTION! And if I didn't have to get back to work and actually produce something, it's a topic I'd love to explore. Maybe tonight, if time allows.

 

[HawkeyeLinus]

This is the problem with not checking my paragraph structure when inserting a new thought. The Esoterica and other "star" tobacco frenzy is the new "Cabbage Patch Kids" NOT the people striving over them.

Too late, this is me in the mirror - and identifying as a cow just to add to the injury! You moo-vie people!

 

[jpmcwjr]

This thread ha everything, good, bad and indifferent. I'm inclined to close it soon, so let's wrap up with thoughtful on topic posts....well, if you have something hilarious to post, go for it.

 

[LotusEater]

How tobacco is priced has nothing to do with morality imho. When critical medication is kept out of the hands of those who need because of price manipulation I think that is immoral. If someone finds a cache of Penzance (a luxury item) and wants to ask an exorbitant price for it that’s his/her prerogative there is no moral question or ethical obligation.

Also - if you can’t get the tobacco you want because it is expensive you can always smoke something else. If you need insulin but can’t afford the artificially high price it’s not like you can take an aspirin instead.

 

[briarbuck]

Not sure why you would close an active thread with minimal consternation considering it's been deadville around here lately...

Funny enough?

 

[Oddball]

Frankly I think anything that is engaging about this hobby is fun but we can all do it in different ways.

That being said, I don't buy stuff that is over 20% of the retail with age and will only pay retail or sale prices for new stuff.

I will pay B&M prices to support my local shop, but they also call me when something less frequent rolls in because they know I am not a reseller.

I don't care what anyone else does about it, but paying 4 times the retail for stuff from less than a year ago does not compute.

Buying OOP stuff is eye of the beholder. Value vs worth and such. Luckily I don't know what I am missing and live in bliss as a result...

 

[bobpnm]

Hobby smokers are breed apart. Pipe smokers endure the vicissitudes of the vice. Laughing in the face of danger. Hobbyists? They simply dabble in manly man's vice.

What a great thread! I am laughing now!

 

[sablebrush52]

Too late, this is me in the mirror - and identifying as a cow just to add to the injury! You moo-vie people!View attachment 202359

That is more than a little frightening looking. Tillamook Chuckie.

And people were beating each other's nonexistent brains out over buying one for their kid, who would have been very happy with a lot of other options.