Unicorn - This One's Going To Hurt! (Pic Heavy)

[ssjones]

I'm not sure that I would put a lot of stock in the profile from the catalog drawings. I've measured quite a variance over the bowl height on the same model pipe and I assume the stems would have been at least hand finished in that era. The variances over the different eras are even more inconsistent.
As Dave mentioned, I would look at that step (?) on tenon/stem junction. Below is an 8 Dot stem (assumed to be original, but who really knows?)

 

[tschiraldi]

Thank you. I have contacted the seller. I have some Four Dots that don't have a stepped tenon, but I do have an Old England with a similar stepped tenon. I'll have to do more research. Everything else seems to be spot on. Hmmm.

 

[dmcmtk]

I'm not sure that I would put a lot of stock in the profile from the catalog drawings.

The taper in profile. Al, if you're trying to tell me the Marlow pipe's stem is original, I have a bridge to sell you in Brooklyn.

Tim, yes Sasieni stems can have a step, especially those designed without any hardware, or an inner tube at most.
Here is a post-war Patent Four Dot I own, without the hardware; notice the diameter of the tenon's drilling.

 

[ssjones]

The taper in profile. Al, if you're trying to tell me the Marlow pipe's stem is original, I have a bridge to sell you in Brooklyn.

Well, as in any old pipe, no one knows the originality except the original purchaser. In the decades following the purchase was the stem:

- buffed down

- sanded down (this could be highly likely for the stem in question)

- a authorized factory replacement
We can make assumptions, but we're kidding ourselves is we think there are absolutes.

I definitely would not used the hand-drawn catalog shapes as completely factual. (my unsmoked Ashford stem appears slimmer than the catalog shapes show and varies era-to-era)
The profile of the threaded tenon is pretty well documented, so that is helpful.

 

[ssjones]

Having said all that, that particular sellers authenticity has been called into question enough times to confidently raise an eyebrow.

 

[dmcmtk]

Where's Dibos De'Boss when I need him...? :D

 

[ssjones]

I mentioned "factory authorized replacement stems" earlier, but find no factual evidence that Sasieni offered such a service (like Dunhill).

 

[sablebrush52]

I mentioned "factory authorized replacement stems" earlier, but find no factual evidence that Sasieni offered such a service (like Dunhill).

Barling had a complete refurbishment department. I suspect that such was a common practice to keep one's clientele happy. But the only way to know that is to see it mentioned in the company's literature.
The point about replacement stems is a good one. Whenever a seller claims the stem on a vintage pipe to be "original", I automatically discount that claim, unless there is something, such as a unique shaping like on this Barling Quaint:

that is non standard. There's really no way to know that a stem is original. In the case of Sasieni, the problem is magnified by the fact that the collectible value can vary widely, based on the nomenclature on the stem.
Catalog illustrations are a good guide, but not absolute for shape, as these pipes were largely hand finished and shape varied from pipe to pipe even within the tolerances of matching to a model pattern. However, in the case of the 4 Dot that Dave put up, it's not just the profile that's off, but also the positioning of the dots.
I've also seen the later "Specially Selected" reissues from the 1980's being sold as pre War pipes, But I don't remember if the copying of the old "fish tail" logo era pipes extended to the COM stamp as well. Also, The reissues didn't have a patent stamp.

 

[dmcmtk]

However, in the case of the 4 Dot that Dave put up, it's not just the profile that's off, but also the positioning of the dots.

I left that out in my post, but yes, the placement of the dots on the FOUR (sheesh!) Dot Marlow is definitely off. :D

 

[georged]

I just got pinged to weigh in on the first pipe in this thread's stem.
I am NOT a Sasieni expert, btw. But evidence of fakery and/or replacement shenanigans applies to all brands, and that I do have a feel for. Plus, I have several old Sasienis in my own rack to check some details against.
As far as I can tell from the one dot's photos, the stem is legit.

 

[tschiraldi]

George, thank you for taking a look! The pipe is so beautiful, and everything else seems to hit the mark. The seller said he would accept a return, but claims he has personally owned this pipe for 50 years. It seems he has a not so stellar reputation, so take that for what it is worth. People can claim anything they like. You did point out some irregularities on another One Dot I bought, and I appreciate your input. Now to decide what to do. Thank you all for your comments and concerns. They are much appreciated!
Tim

 

[jpmcwjr]

A real handful of excellent pipes in this thread!
Jesse- Does that Barling Quaint have a meerschaum lining?

 

[ssjones]

I would guess that the threaded tenon would add to the legitimacy claim. (but also not that difficult to create)

 

[sablebrush52]

Jesse- Does that Barling Quaint have a meerschaum lining?

Yes it does. Smokes wonderfully well!

 

[dmcmtk]

Another question, since the pipe dates from late 1925 at the earliest (Patent granted Nov. 1925) why not a town name? According to Tony Soderman, a 1924 Sasieni catalog "...depicted every shape with Four Dots and a town name!" That linear Made in England marking makes me uncomfortable also.
Tim, it's your decision (and money) in the final analysis.

 

[sablebrush52]

Sasieni started with the town names in late 1923. I have a xerox copy of the 1924 catalog. Jon Guss tracked down ads with the town name as early as November of 1923. Maybe the Specially Selected stamp replaced the Town name, in the same way that the straight grain stamp on a Barling replaced the model number. No way to know.

 

[tschiraldi]

Sasieni did not start using town names regularly until 1935( https://murderofravens.org/my-sasieni-pipe-article/ ), though it appears some pipes may have had them earlier. This pipe dates from the 1920's.

 

[sablebrush52]

Sasieni did not start using town names until 1935.

Wrong. Sasieni started using town names in 1923.

All ads from late 1923. Note the Town Name just below the illustration on the right. Also note the name of their distributor, who lost distribution of Sasieni in the mid 1920's.
Steve was wrong on the year. It happens. Hacker said categorically that Barling didn't publish a catalog before 1962, and I published a facsimile of their pre-WW1 catalog a couple of years ago. More stuff turns up and we revise our info. And as I wrote, I have a copy of Sasieni's 1924 catalog in my hot little hands and the pipes have town names.

 

[tschiraldi]

Sasieni stamping change often until Alfred took over. Town names may have started in 1923, but there are many, many pre war pipes, especially One Dots, without them. I have fishtail logs Four Dotz without them as well.

 

[ssjones]

I think Jesse may have something on the Specially Selected replacing the town name. Treasure pipes just sold a SS One Dot a few months ago.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/SASIENI-SPECIALLY-SELECTED-ONE-DOT-PATENT-FISH-TALE-LOGO-PIPE-/382580266956?nma=true&si=wi9zET0dTW2skNGa4QaUjw%252BDNjk%253D&orig_cvip=true&nordt=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

The later recreation of the Specially Selected pipes in the 80's were 8 Dots, and lacked the Patent number. (at least it is on the one sale pipe that I saved)