There is Nothing Unauthentic About American Italian or Chinese Food

[telescopes]

What's this American obsession to be "better" than every other country at everything? Sure, there are great restaurants of every ethnicity in the US, but claiming Americans always improve and make everything better than the country of origin is ridiculous. Especially when taste is subjective. The best Indian food I've ever had was in India. The best Mexican food I've ever had was in Mexico. The pizza I every had was in Naples.... It doesn't mean they objectively "the best."

No one is claiming the food in American is better - simply that the foods made here have an authenticity to them that is often in keeping in line with the home country of origin. Also, that taste is subjective. The worst pizza I had was in Naples. The worst Mexican food I had was in Matzalan. And the worst Thai food I’ve had was in Bangkok. None of those statements mean anything other than good and bad meals exist everywhere. The finest French meal I ever had was in Moroccco in Marrakech. The finest pizza I had was at Serra’s Pizza in Maryland Hgts, MO. The finest Thai Curry I’ve tasted was in Palm Desert. Again, meaningless other than to say great food can be and is found everywhere. Which is the point of the thread. FWIW, the best Linguinne Tutta Mare I tasted was at a small Italian restaurant in San Felipe called in English - Red Lobster. (Not the chain).

 

[pappymac]

What's this American obsession to be "better" than every other country at everything? Sure, there are great restaurants of every ethnicity in the US, but claiming Americans always improve and make everything better than the country of origin is ridiculous. Especially when taste is subjective. The best Indian food I've ever had was in India. The best Mexican food I've ever had was in Mexico. The pizza I every had was in Naples.... It doesn't mean they objectively "the best."

And you think the obsession to be "better" than every other country is solely an American thing? Great Britain and France have looked down their noses at America since the end of the Revolutionary War. Even during WWII, Great Britain considered the U.S. to be lacking in knowledge of how to fight a war.

Every other country that builds automobiles go around braying about how their autos are higher quality.

Americans are not the only ones to exhibit national pride.

 

[HeavyLeadBelly]

One huge reason why I love living in this small city of Milwaukee is that I have access to an amazing food scene here. In regard to Chinese, Italian, and Mexican food, yup I can get the Americanized stuff if I want but I have options to enjoy high end versions of the same. Ceviche is pretty amazing imo. But man, these three genres of food are only a part of it all. I can get Brazilian, Vietnamese, Hmong, Ethiopian, Croatian, Italian (good and not so good), Sicilian, Japanese, Thai, etc etc.

Yeah, some if the traditional ethnic cuisines have been modified to suite American tastes, but if you live in, or near, a city with a vibrant food scene your options open wide up (except for Seattle/Puget Sound area-your Mexican options are terrible, be glad the teriyaki makes up for it). For this reason I can’t ever see my myself living in a small town that has a bar or two and maybe a greasy sooon, or at best a supper club.

Edit: this isn’t to say I don’t like the Americanized versions of these cuisines, I’ll eat the hell out of a plate of General Tso’s chicken, or a huge Torta and there’s nothing like a breakfast at a greasy spoon: scrambled eggs, sausage, toast with black coffee in a white porcelain cup can’t be beat.

 

[telescopes]

One huge reason why I love living in this small city of Milwaukee is that I have access to an amazing food scene here. In regard to Chinese and Mexican fiid, yup I can get the Americanized stuff if I want but I have options to enjoy high end versions of the same. Ceviche is pretty amazing imo. But man, these two genres of food are only a part of it all. I can get Brazilian, Vietnamese, Hmong, Ethiopian, Croatian, Italian (good and not so good), Sicilian, Japanese, etc etc.

Yeah, some if the traditional ethnic cuisines have been modified to suite American tastes, but if you live in, or near, a city with a vibrant food scene your options open wide up (except for Seattle/Puget Sound area-your Mexican options are terrible, be glad the teriyaki makes up for it). For this reason I can’t ever see my myself living in a small town that has a bar or two and maybe a greasy sooon, or at best a supper club.

Yes, that is my point - Exactly. The typical focus is on the lousy joints we have, but with a bit of research- the sky is the limit. Good food can be found and definitely enjoyed. And sometimes, you get surprised with something that just knocks your socks off - even in a small town. America - there’s a reason so many people want to come here.

 

[cshubhra]

I have a very interesting story of authentic food.

A few years ago, I visited Plymouth Rock. They have a cafeteria which serves authentic food which the pilgrims ate. Of course I had to order it for lunch.

I forgot that in 21st century we have a much higher standard of living and also the Pilgrims were specifically suffering from food insecurity. So, eventually what I got was absolutely inedible. Some kind of starch which tasted horrible and was of small portion size. Floating in it were 3 or 4 half-inches cube of Turkey which also tasted horrible. So that was that

I still prefer authentic food, but maybe mid-twentieth century kind of hits the sweet spot. Also, I prefer celebration food and/or affluent food.

 

[cshubhra]

One more theory on authentic food. Typically when we are eating food from another culture, we eat the celebration food. In general celebration food takes lots of labor hours to cook, and most of us do not have the means to pay for food which took 7-8 labor hours to prepare.

So then it becomes economy of scale and the talent of the chef. There are 3 business models of Indian restaurants in India, where they can serve authentic food which is reasonably affordable (None of which is possible in America)

1. Hub and spoke model - There is a central factory creating food in large batches, and then delivering to 10-15 restaurants every 30 minutes.

2. Fixed Amount - The restaurant cooks a fixed amount and when it’s out it’s out.

3. Process improvements - This really takes a talented chef to create processes which duplicate the taste of food which took 7-8 labor hours to cook, within 15 minutes. This is the model which most Indian restaurants use in India. However this can make the food more costly (Most curries in India are double cooked, the same curries in Indian restaurants are single cooked). In America you can get away
with this, since many customers would not notice but if you are competing in India, you cannot.
Also, any line cook in an entry level Indian restaurant in India has to be passionate in cooking, otherwise he will be fired. I do not expect the same level of talent for a immigrant who is cooking as a mean to earn money.

I used the example for Indian food, but it can be used for food from anywhere.

All of these matters only if you really crave the nuances in taste difference. Otherwise it’s all good.

A last point should also be made. If you get to enjoy a meal in India, there is a probability that you have eaten at a place which is a tourist trap, caters to foreigners and may not be representative of the food locals eat.

 

[cshubhra]

A last post on food authenticity, which I kind of hinted two posts above but it’s worth a mention.

When you are talking about authentic food from a community, it may also be important to understand the economy of the culture the food is from. Also, it is worth noting if it is a daily use food or celebration food.

These two points can get extremely complex, so I will just touch upon it with Indian food.

There is a common conception that Indian food is spicy . But have we truly understand what spice is ?

Ask any Indian in India on what spice he uses, and he will probably indicate something like this

Cumin, Coriander (Cilantro) Seed, Clove, cinnamon, green cardamom, black cardamom, star Anise, Fennel Seeds, Nigella seeds, Nutmeg, Saffron, Nutmeg Shell (Mace), and many more. On the other hand “Spicy” means “Hot” to most people in US, so there is a semantic difference in understanding.

Going back, even though Indians often use more pepper in cooking, I still do think it is so broad a generalization, which I would call false. So how this became more common?

What I have seen, pepper is used in
India a lot in street restaurants, which needs to keep the price extremely low to be viable for lower middle class consumers. They use much lower quality ingredients and use pepper to make this palatable. Since India had been a poor country for the last 200-300 years, this is the kind of food that was globalized. However there are a lot of foods which were cooked at home during celebrations and/or food for the noblemen, which may not contain heat at all. On the same vein home cooked food may not pack any heat at all.

 

[JOHN72]

I wish I could kick your asses, like a fresh cauliflower.

 

[lazar]

And you think the obsession to be "better" than every other country is solely an American thing? Great Britain and France have looked down their noses at America since the end of the Revolutionary War. Even during WWII, Great Britain considered the U.S. to be lacking in knowledge of how to fight a war.

Every other country that builds automobiles go around braying about how their autos are higher quality.

Americans are not the only ones to exhibit national pride.

Good points, though the British rarely crow about their food Still, I think it's an accurate stereotype that Americans are always going on about being the "greatest country in the world," the only country that has freedom, etc. I thought this o.p. was an extreme and rather silly example of that.

No one is claiming the food in American is better - simply that the foods made here have an authenticity to them that is often in keeping in line with the home country of origin. Also, that taste is subjective. The worst pizza I had was in Naples. The worst Mexican food I had was in Matzalan. And the worst Thai food I’ve had was in Bangkok. None of those statements mean anything other than good and bad meals exist everywhere. The finest French meal I ever had was in Moroccco in Marrakech. The finest pizza I had was at Serra’s Pizza in Maryland Hgts, MO. The finest Thai Curry I’ve tasted was in Palm Desert. Again, meaningless other than to say great food can be and is found everywhere. Which is the point of the thread. FWIW, the best Linguinne Tutta Mare I tasted was at a small Italian restaurant in San Felipe called in English - Red Lobster. (Not the chain).

Okay, but in your o.p. you literally said America takes these foods and "improves" on them and makes them "better."

 

[cshubhra]

I wish I could kick your asses, like a fresh cauliflower. View attachment 358839

Then the cauliflower will do this to your ️

 

[telescopes]

Okay, but in your o.p. you literally said America takes these foods and "improves" on them and makes them "better."

Point taken. Let me amend that. We don‘t Make them more authentic - that much is for sure. We can serve them authentically, but I think what happens in America is that immigrants and others feel empowered to play with the recipes and often times the fusion of their efforts and create something truly unique, wonderful, and perhaps even more tasty than what it might have started out. Examples would be burritos and fajitas, the Tex Mex taco, the chimichanga, orange chicken, the use of flour tortillas, fortune cookies, and let’s face it, the standard chop sticks made of poplar wood exported everywhere, lol. But to be honest, the diatribe really began as a rant against all those on Yelp who live to decry that every restaurant they go to is never authentic, yada, yada.

 

[anotherbob]

depends on what you mean by authentic. If you are looking for something that represents what people eat else where, then what we have is not authentic. And if you're looking for something that is genuinely a branch off of that trunk, then something originally made by someone who is from that culture or is part of that culture then that's a different idea of authentic. If someone who has no contact or very little tries to make something from another culture it's really not authentic at all. Which doesn't make any of those definitively better or worse. And here is a fun wrinkle too. That authentic thing in China or Mexico is still going to change from what that persons great grandparents made.
It's a question of what in specific are you looking for?
Also there is this thing called the Pizza effect. Where the place of origin takes ideas and styles from the versions that have traveled. In some parts of Italy the pizza they make borrows from American styles of pizza. Sometimes to please the tourists and sometimes because they like it that way too.