The beginning of the end?
- Thread starter cacooper
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@ohin3: Yes, Thoreau is certainly representative of what is sorely missing from the national character these days, for sure. (What national character?...oh yeah, all the tripe on prime time tv...that is what it has devolved into...absolutely horrifying).
As far as what can be done, aside from withdrawing our support, both monetary and conscious, from the banking/corporate/media/government establishment (as I said previously), all I can really say at this point is that in the USA, everything is a lost cause at the Federal level. The only arena in which you can still possibly have any influence is the local one. The only hope in preserving our liberty is state government just saying no to unconstitutional, anti-liberty, anti-free market mandates from the feds.
As far as what can be done, aside from withdrawing our support, both monetary and conscious, from the banking/corporate/media/government establishment (as I said previously), all I can really say at this point is that in the USA, everything is a lost cause at the Federal level. The only arena in which you can still possibly have any influence is the local one. The only hope in preserving our liberty is state government just saying no to unconstitutional, anti-liberty, anti-free market mandates from the feds.
I don't know fellows. I been thinking about this thread since it first popped up, and some things occurred to me. Actually a couple of things.
1.) Tobacco is a huge source of revenue, be it in the form of nails, cigars or our precious pipe tobacco.
2.) This situations also reminds me of the time gun ammunition got real scarce and high, but now it's settled and no one is freaked out about it anymore and ammo is easy to find.
3.) The real people in power, the once who make real decisions. Not the chumps we see on TV. The fellows who make the calls are also nail, cigar and pipe smokers themselves. They aren't going to stop smoking anytime soon.
What I honestly think will happen is just what we saw happen with gun ammo. It'll get expensive, it'll get scarce, but it won't stop being sold. Too much money to make and one thing we can all agree on is that our Gubment loves to collect taxes. And yes, is it a real possibility that some of our favorite B&Ms and online stores will take a hit, of course. Will they still be there when this passes, most of them.
Just something to think about. This conversation just reminds me of how my gun nut friends were talking when the stuff with the ammo was going down.
1.) Tobacco is a huge source of revenue, be it in the form of nails, cigars or our precious pipe tobacco.
2.) This situations also reminds me of the time gun ammunition got real scarce and high, but now it's settled and no one is freaked out about it anymore and ammo is easy to find.
3.) The real people in power, the once who make real decisions. Not the chumps we see on TV. The fellows who make the calls are also nail, cigar and pipe smokers themselves. They aren't going to stop smoking anytime soon.
What I honestly think will happen is just what we saw happen with gun ammo. It'll get expensive, it'll get scarce, but it won't stop being sold. Too much money to make and one thing we can all agree on is that our Gubment loves to collect taxes. And yes, is it a real possibility that some of our favorite B&Ms and online stores will take a hit, of course. Will they still be there when this passes, most of them.
Just something to think about. This conversation just reminds me of how my gun nut friends were talking when the stuff with the ammo was going down.
Thanks for the history of ammo and bringing up the very good point of taxes, William. It's kinda weird though. Why would you, as a government, want to obliterate or change anything if you're getting a crap ton of money from taxes? Let the masses consume the tobacco and keep on taxing it. That's free (well, free for the government) money right there...
-Jason
-Jason
"A pound here, a pound there, pretty soon, you're talking real tobacco"
Everett Dirksen
Cellar today!
Everett Dirksen
Cellar today!
I wonder if the gov will make sellers give up addresses of people buying say more than a pound every six months. Did you know it is actually a crime to have food on hand more than a 7 day supply? Food, REALLY! Is tobacco next?
I'm going to have to say that I don't think that FDA regulation will necessarily end pipe smoking as we know it. I think that it is important not to get into the sky is falling routine. I don't want some of the forum readers that maybe smoke their pipes once a day or less (like me) thinking that they need to go out and buy pounds and pounds of tobacco to cellar. This can be expensive and may not make financial or practical sense. I have a few pounds cellared, mostly to add age to blends I love. I figure if there were a mass disappearance of high quality pipe tobacco, I'd cut my pipe smoking down to a couple of bowls per week and what I have would last me for years.
However, I don't think that it will be impossible to obtain quality pipe tobacco. Oh sure, some blends may be discontinued but that has been happening for years. I am honestly surprised at how many blends are currently in production considering the small pipe smoking market. That small market is what will wind up saving us. I can't imagine that the folks up at the FDA are too worried about pipe smoking. You don't see teens stealing pipe tobacco out of their mom's purse, you don't see droves of pipe smokers outside of office buildings getting their fix, and you don't see pipe smoking being marketed in popular culture.
However, I don't think that it will be impossible to obtain quality pipe tobacco. Oh sure, some blends may be discontinued but that has been happening for years. I am honestly surprised at how many blends are currently in production considering the small pipe smoking market. That small market is what will wind up saving us. I can't imagine that the folks up at the FDA are too worried about pipe smoking. You don't see teens stealing pipe tobacco out of their mom's purse, you don't see droves of pipe smokers outside of office buildings getting their fix, and you don't see pipe smoking being marketed in popular culture.
Bingo. I haven't a use for either party and used to consider myself a conservative. Well, I still have conservative values but refuse to call myself a republican. Bunch of useless people who think they know whats best for me to do in my spare time. The can pry my tobacco from my cold dead fingers.
It's the fact that the FTCA Act is out to eliminate any flavoring in tobacco. That includes non-aro's. There are no non-aro's that have not been cased or flavored. It is all a matter of degree that determines if it is an aro or non-aro. You can trust me on this one. If you have ever smoked uncased tobacco you would most likely give up smoking altogether. Casing is necessary to make tobacco palatable even if it is not "topped". That is precisely what the "Act" is out to eliminate... palatable tobacco! I do agree with brian64 and I take Craig Tarler at his word. That is "I give it four years for pipe tobacco as we know it". That was said to me by Craig in 2009. Thankfully, the FDA is operating much slower than they even anticipated. That is a good thing. And, I do believe that when the Government has shot off their foot of tobacco tax revenue, things will turn around as they did with Alcohol Prohibition. People will find a way to do what they enjoy. However, we will likely suffer for some considerable period of time.
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+1000. Let's not even bring in other points, such as average higher wages, better labor protection/rights, yada, yada, yada .... I might be walking a thin line, but it's factual.
:clap:
Keep your picket line off my lawn, I'm puffing. :
:I'm glad that condemning nonsense laws about restricting tobacco is not considered off-limits political discussion on this forum.
There are enough of them already.
I hear you, bro
Captain & Kevin- respectfully, "apathy" didn't cause this. Any more than apathy caused TARP, NDAA, ACA or any other recent political travesty. 60% of public opinion was running against TARP and it passed anyway. Not to bend the no-politics rule, but relevant to the topic at hand: our 'government' is not responsive to voters. It's responsive to lobbyists.
I've read through this and it is alarming to read captainbob's statements from his personal business findings on what is in store for us. I was not planning on cellaring tobacco, but will now likely start a program.
The Penzance Patrol has now been organized to scour the world and has rented a building across the street from Germain's warehouse where it will hi-jack future shipments. I need to go to the British Isles and go to the Esoterica's headquarters where I will bribe the 3 workers( I heard that's all they have ) with young Virgins, and Chocolate to divert their shipments to my new "Customs" shipping dock.
:laughat: The Penzance Patrol has now been organized to scour the world and has rented a building across the street from Germain's warehouse where it will hi-jack future shipments. I need to go to the British Isles and go to the Esoterica's headquarters where I will bribe the 3 workers( I heard that's all they have ) with young Virgins, and Chocolate to divert their shipments to my new "Customs" shipping dock.
Virgins and Chocolate....H'mmm we may have to talk.... :D
Virgins and Chocolate....H'mmm we may have to talk.... :D
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