Merry Christmas to those who missed out - Ken Byron has plenty in stock.
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@briarbuck @kcghost @Copernicuslyrun @pantsBoots
Sutliff Cringle Flake 2020
- Thread starter badbriar
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Boy, I sure hope that you're correct! But from what I've been witnessing with blends being cheapened, growers turning to other crops, machine harvesting, and other matters, I kinda doubt it. If Sutliff has more of this level of leaf hidden away, we may live on in hope.
Appreciate you looking out, but at that price, he can keep em.
His price includes shipping. It's been compared to McClelland's Christmas Cheer, some have said it's better. Seems worth the risk, but I can understand sticking to guns.
I've got a crisp $20 saying his price will be less than what they'll be selling for in six months...
I'm not suggesting that there is a infinite amount of aged leaf or leaves plucked by vestal virgins at the break of dawn before the dew evaporates. Obviously, there's no more Syrian latakia and maybe no more aged stoved red virginias or perique either. My point though is that there will always be limited special releases that people will lament missing. Whether these new blends will reach the heights of earlier releases will depend in part on people's imaginations and sense of nostalgia. There will be new blenders with new tricks. Ken Byron says he may have cracked the code for stoving matured red virginas (a process that the McNiels apparently refuse to teach) and Ernie Q seems to have agreed. I'm not terribly worried. It's like shark's fin soup. Yeah, I really like it, but I don't mind saving the sharks and not eating them; there are lots of other things to eat.
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I sort of agree with this. People like to lament things missed, and sometimes things not missed. Imagination and nostalgia? Maybe, but I'm working off of tastebuds. Matured Red is a favorite of mine, so this release is especially welcomed.
As for duplicating the McNeil's specific processing, I hope that that's true though by all accounts the process was a complicated series of steps. And the raw material won't be what the McNeils used. We can always hope, but I'll believe it when I taste it.
In any event, ther are plenty of fine blends in production to enjoy, but nothing in production like this one.
I enjoyed a bowl of 2019 cringle today and it was, as it always has been, great. I still have a dozen or so from 2019. I bought 8 tins of the 2020 at 6 am on the morning it was released and figured that, like 2019, it would be around for the next few weeks at least. Whoops! Well, live and learn. My order from SP should arrive in the next few days. Based upon everyone else's review i am hoping that Sutliff might have some hold back to put out in December. In any event, the 2019 changed my whole appreciation of pipe smoking and opened new ways to enjoy it. I have been a pipe smoker for 30 plus years and i can honestly say that i wish i had explored the variety of Red Virginia so much sooner. I also wish my wife liked the room note more....
I wonder how true this is. Are Jeremy Reeves' and Russ Oulette's standards really that low and the McNiels really that high? The quality of Cringle Flake suggests that the question is whether leaf of the same quality can be had today, to be made and aged to reach the quality of McC, like Cringle F?
I don't think that the argument can be framed in low and high standards. It can be framed as different metrics, and whether those metrics appeal to you. Remember that shortly before McClelland was shut down they tried to make one last batch of 5100 for smokers who enjoyed it and for blenders who used it as a component in their blends. They decided that the result wasn't to their standard and they tossed it rather than release a blend that didn't hit their marks. They were quite picky about their Virginias. Not only was it handpicked, it came from specific parts of the plant. And if I remember correctly, some of their suppliers had turned to growing other crops.
C&D releases blends that they believe are good, as does Hearth & Home.
As much as I like many of Russ' blends, matured Red Virginias aren't something he does, they're something that he uses as a component in his blending. And he's not personally processing the leaf that he uses, batch after batch, after batch, which is what Mike McNeil did. That said, his RO Perique Series GP-11, which he made with help from Mark Ryan, is one of my all time favorite Va/Pers. And I love Viprati, Anni Kake and a number of other H&H blends. McClelland they are not, nor does that matter. They have a different metric and I like them for what they are.
C&D does make a wide range of blends and there are a few that I like, like Bijou and Yorktown. And as much as I like CRF, I don't find it to have the same depth of flavors that McClelland Virginias could have. Their metric is different from what McClelland had.
And frankly, a number of McClelland blends didn't do anything for me. They were not a great source of aromatics, though they made a few, like Deep Hollow, that I like. And I preferred English/Oriental/Balkan blends made by other blenders. Again, it's a matter of metrics.
One big issue is the manner in which leaf is harvested and processed. 10 years ago when this Sutliff leaf was grown the leaf was handpicked at the point where it was fully ripe, and other leaf was left to ripen for the next pick. With machine harvesting, that harvest is a mixture of ripened leaf and unripened leaf, and that's going to affect the flavor.
Can leaf be grown that's the equal of anything grown in the past? Sure. But lacking Federal subsidies, the labor to grow and process is will be expensive and so will the resulting tins. If you don't mind spending $30 or $40 for 50 grams you can have all the time tested, traditional method, labor intensive, high end leaf that you can smoke.
I meant to pass on this one. However reading about it, I ordered 10 tins from Ken Byron Ventures
This makes me really glad that I don't have the palate for Vas and Vapers. I'm not sure i know what you mean by metrics but I appreciate that you taste something in McClelland's matured red Va that you can't taste elsewhere. I can't taste it. I've a jar of 5100 that I dip into once every few years to see if it does anything for me. It never does.
The notion of boutique hand grown leaves is intriguing. I can see it, tins of tobacco priced like beluga caviar.
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This is great! Every time I want to take a break from pathing out this very tedious layout I'm working on, there you are!
By metrics I mean measurements, those may be aims, goals, or decisions regarding what's important.
5100 was intended as a component for blending, but became very popular as a mild Virginia smoke. I think it's a snooze on its own, but I love it for blending.
The idea of positioning themselves as a high end boutique blender had supposedly been suggested to the McNeils, but it evidently didn't interest them. 40 years is a good long run.
I'm primarily a Va smoker, and yes, I taste flavors in McClelland Virginias that are not duplicated anywhere else. Other blending houses, like G&H, Gawith, and Germain's, to name a few, have their own house styles and are individual in their own ways.
Once upon a time there was much more variation because there were many more manufacturers. Now, a lot of brands are made by one large manufacturer and those blends have lost some of their character.
The Sutliff release isn't quite the same as McClelland, but to me it's just as good a Red in its way as McClelland's Reds. Pretty damned similar.
Price goes to 15$ per can when you order 10 if that helps. They have Sekura on the menu as well.
Glad I got some Cringle 2020. Still waiting for my packages to arrive... BNB still shows stock as well, though I've never purchased from them.
All of the McClelland lamenting is a funny thing. 10 years ago there were plenty of people who didn't like them, a lot who thought they made a few good offerings, and a lot that loved them too, just like all of the blenders nowadays.
The grass is always greener and all that. I have to agree with almost everything Sable said on the subject, they did a great job with what they were trying to do. Other blenders do just as well with different styles/aspects of blending.
If McConnell's stopped production tomorrow you'd see the same behavior... Even though their blends receive about zero hype right now (they used to be one of the "in" brands on the forum when I started here). FOMO/you always lament what you can no longer have... I'm not trying to beat anyone up for this, we are all guilty of it. It's human nature.
All of the McClelland lamenting is a funny thing. 10 years ago there were plenty of people who didn't like them, a lot who thought they made a few good offerings, and a lot that loved them too, just like all of the blenders nowadays.
The grass is always greener and all that. I have to agree with almost everything Sable said on the subject, they did a great job with what they were trying to do. Other blenders do just as well with different styles/aspects of blending.
If McConnell's stopped production tomorrow you'd see the same behavior... Even though their blends receive about zero hype right now (they used to be one of the "in" brands on the forum when I started here). FOMO/you always lament what you can no longer have... I'm not trying to beat anyone up for this, we are all guilty of it. It's human nature.
I just called P&C to get an update on my order. After a 45 minute wait to speak to a person I was informed that they have a new fraud detection system that is flagging a whole bunch of orders. The customer service rep was kind and guaranteed that my order would go out Friday. I am not sure when and if they were going to reach out and let me know about my order getting flagged. If your order is stuck in processing my suggestion would be to give them a call (assuming you have the time) and follow up.
I guess depending on how you look at it. It helped and hurt at the same time. Another 10 coming.
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