Sutliff 515 RC-1 Matured Red Virginia

[hoosierpipeguy]

He looks like a guy I'd hesitate to f*** with ?

So I go from an old white haired guy with no taste buds to bad ass GI Joe all in the same thread. Anything is possible at PM, especially when @BROBS is involved.

 

[dcon]

I am not going to brag on my taste buds because I am an acknowledged finicky eater. I do know what I like and what I do not like. One thing (as I have mentioned before) that I despise is vinegar. I find both the smell and taste to be nauseating. After following this thread, I reopened a jar of 515 RC-1 that I have had set back for several months. Many of you know that, I am usually quite a fan of most Sutliff products. For what may be obvious reasons, though I like many McClelland products, I never cared for 5100. I, also, prefer bright or mixed to straight red VA. I purchased a half pound of 515 with the idea that it could mature into a mixer if I did not like it.

When I received my shipment the 515, as I presumed, strongly reeked of vinegar. After a little drying, the initial response to the smoke was that it was a vinegar-ladened mess. Jarred away for ultimately being turned into a possible VaPer puck, I had not opened the jar until now. The reopening hinted at no scent of that reprehensible vinegar. The moisture level seemed about right so, I stuffed it in a Savinelli Roma Pot and smoked away.

The result: It is now actually quite good. I still see this as a tobacco with great mixing potential but, I am not adverse to smoking this as is. My recommendation, FWIW, is that if, like me, you do not initially care for 515 or find the “vinegar” off putting, give the 515 some jar rest and you might find the rapprochement pleasurable.

 

[kwg116]

I am not going to brag on my taste buds because I am an acknowledged finicky eater. I do know what I like and what I do not like. One thing (as I have mentioned before) that I despise is vinegar. I find both the smell and taste to be nauseating. After following this thread, I reopened a jar of 515 RC-1 that I have had set back for several months. Many of you know that, I am usually quite a fan of most Sutliff products. For what may be obvious reasons, though I like many McClelland products, I never cared for 5100. I, also, prefer bright or mixed to straight red VA. I purchased a half pound of 515 with the idea that it could mature into a mixer if I did not like it.

When I received my shipment the 515, as I presumed, strongly reeked of vinegar. After a little drying, the initial response to the smoke was that it was a vinegar-ladened mess. Jarred away for ultimately being turned into a possible VaPer puck, I had not opened the jar until now. The reopening hinted at no scent of that reprehensible vinegar. The moisture level seemed about right so, I stuffed it in a Savinelli Roma Pot and smoked away.

The result: It is now actually quite good. I still see this as a tobacco with great mixing potential but, I am not adverse to smoking this as is. My recommendation, FWIW, is that if, like me, you do not initially care for 515 or find the “vinegar” off putting, give the 515 some jar rest and you might find the rapprochement pleasurable.

Exact same experience. I purchased some to try last year,most likely from another thread on PM talking about it. Smoked a bowl and disliked it. Decided today to grab my jar today and packed a bowl. About halfway down, I am really enjoying it. As far as comparing it to 5100, when purchased “new” I would actually say this is slightly better. To me 5100 new was a little too monotonous. If this ages like 5100 does, I am going to buy a bunch more to put away for that day when my aged 5100 runs out. Well done Sutliff.

 

[kg.legat0]

I just don't understand 'why' with the vinegar ...515 RC-1 is a great tobacco -like, do they add the vinegar shit on at the end or is this a natural by-product of the way it is produced?

 

[BROBS]

I just don't understand 'why' with the vinegar ...515 RC-1 is a great tobacco -like, do they add the vinegar shit on at the end or is this a natural by-product of the way it is produced?

not sure.. may be a little of both.

 

[Spinkle]

I have a small batch that I jarred in January that I’m planning on opening at one year. Sounds like from some of these posts that a lot of the “vinegar “ will have cooled off by then. Since I like that part of the blend I’ll update this thread/review with my thoughts on aged vs fresh.

 

[cosmicfolklore]

I just don't understand 'why' with the vinegar ...515 RC-1 is a great tobacco -like, do they add the vinegar shit on at the end or is this a natural by-product of the way it is produced?

My non-scientific, based on my own experiments with homegrown tobacco is...
when MacBaren's owner came on here and said that the reason the ODF tins were rusting was because of the vinegar they sprayed on them, everyone said, "Aha, that's what McClelland probably did." So, I took several batches of my own reds that I had color cured and tried adding vinegar to one, powdered acetic acid to another, and then a few with apple cider vinegar and some various "gourmet" vinegars, and then I took them to my pipe club meeting. They all sucked, but the white vinegar had a cat piss smell that was very distinct. And, the Sutliff stuff has that same cat piss aroma, when the bag came to me fresh and wet. Sure, sure, let it dry and it can be smoked, somewhat. Brobs seems to like it, but I also send him some of my tobaccos that I think tastes like shit, and loves the shit, ha ha. So, take it as it may... maybe I have shit for tastes, maybe he does, ha ha. Go figure.

But, when I wet the red Virginias and press them, dry them in open air, press them, dry them slowly, each time it will get a natural bacterial vinegary aroma. It doesn't last, but I associate the smells I got from that with more in line with what a true McClellands taste like... NEVER in all of my years of smoking Red Cake (I hate using the catalog term 5100, when it has a damn name) have I smelled cat piss in any of their products. But, the Sutliff I do.

Take that for it is, unscientific, and using the senses of someone who seems to have diametrically opposed senses of goodness... as Brobs. Ha ha. I know he is a good sport, so I pick on him a little. Great guy!

 

[oldgeezersmoker]

I just don't understand 'why' with the vinegar ...515 RC-1 is a great tobacco -like, do they add the vinegar shit on at the end or is this a natural by-product of the way it is produced?

“Matured” tobacco has gone through what are called “sweats.” A similar process is used for silage. Both are processes of fermentation. Acetic acid is a product of both. Go to a farm and stand next to a silo when it has been filled for a week or so. I have been in a barn where tobacco was stored over a summer. The aromas are strikingly similar. I know one person who has within the last year seen - and of course smelled- the actual bales of raw leaf that Sutliff uses for 515. They smell as expected for tobacco that really has been fermented, and not cigarette strip that has already been processed to death before the conglomerates sell it to pipe tobacco manufacturers.

That said, he can’t tell you what Sutliff does or doesn’t do In preparing the tobacco for sale. I can’t either. People who write marketing material likely don’t know either. I learned a long time ago that in this industry “Those who know don’t say, those who say don’t know.”

 

[BROBS]

My non-scientific, based on my own experiments with homegrown tobacco is...
when MacBaren's owner came on here and said that the reason the ODF tins were rusting was because of the vinegar they sprayed on them, everyone said, "Aha, that's what McClelland probably did." So, I took several batches of my own reds that I had color cured and tried adding vinegar to one, powdered acetic acid to another, and then a few with apple cider vinegar and some various "gourmet" vinegars, and then I took them to my pipe club meeting. They all sucked, but the white vinegar had a cat piss smell that was very distinct. And, the Sutliff stuff has that same cat piss aroma, when the bag came to me fresh and wet. Sure, sure, let it dry and it can be smoked, somewhat. Brobs seems to like it, but I also send him some of my tobaccos that I think tastes like shit, and loves the shit, ha ha. So, take it as it may... maybe I have shit for tastes, maybe he does, ha ha. Go figure.

But, when I wet the red Virginias and press them, dry them in open air, press them, dry them slowly, each time it will get a natural bacterial vinegary aroma. It doesn't last, but I associate the smells I got from that with more in line with what a true McClellands taste like... NEVER in all of my years of smoking Red Cake (I hate using the catalog term 5100, when it has a damn name) have I smelled cat piss in any of their products. But, the Sutliff I do.

Take that for it is, unscientific, and using the senses of someone who seems to have diametrically opposed senses of goodness... as Brobs. Ha ha. I know he is a good sport, so I pick on him a little. Great guy!

lol .. to me it smells like vinegar and chlorine.
is is bad that I like it? haha

 

[BROBS]

My non-scientific, based on my own experiments with homegrown tobacco is...
when MacBaren's owner came on here and said that the reason the ODF tins were rusting was because of the vinegar they sprayed on them, everyone said, "Aha, that's what McClelland probably did." So, I took several batches of my own reds that I had color cured and tried adding vinegar to one, powdered acetic acid to another, and then a few with apple cider vinegar and some various "gourmet" vinegars, and then I took them to my pipe club meeting. They all sucked, but the white vinegar had a cat piss smell that was very distinct. And, the Sutliff stuff has that same cat piss aroma, when the bag came to me fresh and wet. Sure, sure, let it dry and it can be smoked, somewhat. Brobs seems to like it, but I also send him some of my tobaccos that I think tastes like shit, and loves the shit, ha ha. So, take it as it may... maybe I have shit for tastes, maybe he does, ha ha. Go figure.

But, when I wet the red Virginias and press them, dry them in open air, press them, dry them slowly, each time it will get a natural bacterial vinegary aroma. It doesn't last, but I associate the smells I got from that with more in line with what a true McClellands taste like... NEVER in all of my years of smoking Red Cake (I hate using the catalog term 5100, when it has a damn name) have I smelled cat piss in any of their products. But, the Sutliff I do.

Take that for it is, unscientific, and using the senses of someone who seems to have diametrically opposed senses of goodness... as Brobs. Ha ha. I know he is a good sport, so I pick on him a little. Great guy!

I opened some 5 year old Cabbies and it smells straight vinegar just like McClelland VaPer flake.

 

[canucklehead]

My non-scientific, based on my own experiments with homegrown tobacco is...
when MacBaren's owner came on here and said that the reason the ODF tins were rusting was because of the vinegar they sprayed on them, everyone said, "Aha, that's what McClelland probably did." So, I took several batches of my own reds that I had color cured and tried adding vinegar to one, powdered acetic acid to another, and then a few with apple cider vinegar and some various "gourmet" vinegars, and then I took them to my pipe club meeting. They all sucked, but the white vinegar had a cat piss smell that was very distinct. And, the Sutliff stuff has that same cat piss aroma, when the bag came to me fresh and wet. Sure, sure, let it dry and it can be smoked, somewhat. Brobs seems to like it, but I also send him some of my tobaccos that I think tastes like shit, and loves the shit, ha ha. So, take it as it may... maybe I have shit for tastes, maybe he does, ha ha. Go figure.

But, when I wet the red Virginias and press them, dry them in open air, press them, dry them slowly, each time it will get a natural bacterial vinegary aroma. It doesn't last, but I associate the smells I got from that with more in line with what a true McClellands taste like... NEVER in all of my years of smoking Red Cake (I hate using the catalog term 5100, when it has a damn name) have I smelled cat piss in any of their products. But, the Sutliff I do.

Take that for it is, unscientific, and using the senses of someone who seems to have diametrically opposed senses of goodness... as Brobs. Ha ha. I know he is a good sport, so I pick on him a little. Great guy!

A couple homemade vabur plugs I made developed that vinegar aroma, it reminded me a lot of the smells produced when my mother made apple cider vinegar and other fermented foods, so I would presume they are produced by some kind of similar acetobacter or gluconobacter.

 

[gervais]

A couple homemade vabur plugs I made developed that vinegar aroma, it reminded me a lot of the smells produced when my mother made apple cider vinegar and other fermented foods, so I would presume they are produced by some kind of similar acetobacter or gluconobacter.

I want to buy a pound of this, but this cat piss and vinegar thing is making it very difficult, you bastards

 

[BROBS]

I want to buy a pound of this, but this cat piss and vinegar thing is making it very difficult, you bastards

I've never smelled anything similar to cat piss.
just vinegar.

 

[sablebrush52]

I want to buy a pound of this, but this cat piss and vinegar thing is making it very difficult, you bastards

Just let some air out. The vinegar evaporates.

 

[Spinkle]

I want to buy a pound of this, but this cat piss and vinegar thing is making it very difficult, you bastards

It smells like salt & vinegar chips I don’t know where the cat piss thing comes from.

 

[Country Bladesmith]

I've never smelled anything similar to cat piss.
just vinegar.

Same.

 

[HitchensDog]

All this talk about McClellands. I have a small amount of Blackwoods Flake left, one tin of St James Woods, and one Christmas Cheer left. I wish I'd stocked up more on the Blackwoods Flake. I just love it. It has what I can only describe as an earthiness, that just works for me. The price on some of those McClellands blends at consignment sites are just astronomical.

 

[spicy_boiii]

I have at least 10 pounds of 515 in the cellar. I'm a big red VA fan, so it wasn't a hard decision.

Most will be mixed with whatever perique I like best once these perique orders pour in. The blend will sit in mason jars for the long haul.

 

[redrooster1977]

I will preface this review by stating that I’ve never tried any McClelland blend, so this is not a comparison. At the same time, it was reading posts lamenting the demise of 5100, and that 515 RC-1 was the closest substitute that made me pull the trigger. I think the fact that even several years after its demise that McClelland still casts a long shadow over the pipe tobacco “zeitgeist” proves that they were a unique and quality operation. But this post is about the new kid on the block.

One of the things that always piqued my interest about the McClelland Virginia blends was references to a “ketchup” tin-note. I am a certified ketchup addict, and in fact as I grew up and started paying attention to my eating habits I realized that this more of a love of vinegar. Salt and Vinegar has always been my favourite flavour of chips, and I love pickled foods of all types.

I had been on the lookout for a Virginia “all-day smoke” that came in bulk to save some cash and cellar in large amounts relatively cheaply. So when I read some reviews saying that 515 RC-1 was a good replacement for 5100 and that it had a “vinegar” tin-note, I knew I needed to try it. I pulled the trigger on 8 ounces to start.

As soon as I opened the bag upon arrival, I was immediately struck by a very powerful vinegar scent. This is not a “ketchupy” tin note, rather, it is very reminiscent of white vinegar. This is right up my alley, but if you are not a fan of vinegar you may find the sheer strength offputting. The tobacco itself is a very nice even ribbon cut, very similar to the STG/Dunhill/Peterson mixtures. I have never found any stray sticks and stems, it seems to be all leaf. The ribbons themselves are a light khaki to deep maroon, and its clear by looking that this is not a single leaf blend.

When you light this tobacco up, you immediately get a vinegary tang that blasts your senses but quickly settles down. The tang remains throughout the bowl, and for those like me, this is a welcome background. There is a sweetness to this blend that also creeps behind the tang as you smoke it, and that flavour builds throughout the bowl. I am not one that really subscribes to the hay vs. grass vs. bread debate with Virginias because I generally don’t get those types of flavours. That having been said, this blend does have an almost oaty/toasty tinge to it that variously fades in and out as you make your way down. There is a bit of zesty citrus that also tends to fade in and out for me, all supported by a base of tangy, earthy true tobacco taste.

Although this is a straight Virginia tobacco, in my opinion it is not a simple blend; the flavours that come and go while the sweetness develops reminds me in a way of Mac Baren Mixture: Scottish Blend. Not that they taste at all similar, but in that the various flavours tend to wax and wane as you smoke, and no two bowls have quite the same progress. This is in my opinion as complex as a straight Virginia can get, and as a former cigarette smoker I can say that the nicotine is adequate unlike many of the other Virginia blends I’ve smoked.

All told, this has become one of my all-time favourite blends, and I’ve just recently purchased another pound during the 20% off sale at SP.com. I intend to order a pound or two whenever it goes on sale to make sure that I never run out. I have also put aside some to age to see what happens – I relish the vinegar tang so if it tones down from aging I may just forget the aging part.

I am also well aware that Sutliff gets some backlash for what is perceived as producing cheap product. They may sell a lot of goopy PG laden aromatics, but as a few who are far wiser than me have pointed out on occasion on this site, the buyers of these blends are what keep our hobby alive. Even if they are not as outspoken as the rest of us, they are speaking with their dollars. I would encourage anyone who thinks this sounds like it could be a blend for you to ignore the Sutliff biases – this is a delicious tobacco that is clearly as high in quality as any other that can be purchased. The fact that its bulk makes it even more of a gem in my opinion.

McClelland may be gone forever, but for pipe smokers like me who never had the opportunity, nothing has truly been lost. Ignorance is bliss as they say. For me, I am not going to spend time trying to hunt down these ever scarcer blends, though I’m sure that I would have loved them. I’ll stick with 515 RC-1. As one of my favourite authors Terry Pratchett would say, “it could have been a lot worse”.

I never got a "ketchup" smell from McClellands.

 

[PipesRock]

Very nice review and clearly tastes vary and my inexperience adds to the divergence. So, disclaimer the only McClelland I've tried so far is Christmas Cheer 2015 (very enjoyable, I'd say special). Not equating anything to 5100 so really I'm off topic. Piping 3/4 of a yr, so barely taste reds from brights etc...

I had 5 bowls of 515 some medium dried and very dried. Noted less in your throat/sinus vinegar when very dry but still there so overall meh. Medium dry fresh and this just wasn't special at all. While not equating to McClelland, I'll take Opening Night, LNF (I know not just Va) or even Newminster 400 fresh to 515 for sure. Of course this is a Virginia so it's jarred and we'll see if dcon's jar rest holds true for me as well.