Stolen or Style or Innovation

[PipeIT]

Adding a taper to the bowl isn't "his spin." It's the normal Danish Billiard shape, impressed so deeply on the Danish psyche by Ivarsson and his children, almost every 'traditional' pipe shape gets the Ivarsson design treatment.

I also forgot to mention, what is this “Normal” Danish Billiard shape you are referring to? Are you simply talking about a typical Billiard shape?

If you ask, where is the birthplace of the briar pipe, that is considered Saint- Claude France, and then where many traditional shapes were also suppose to originate from, including the Billiard.

The History of Saint-Claude, France | The Birthplace of the Briar Pipe

Learn more about the early years of briar pipe making with this look into the history of Saint-Claude, France.

www.smokingpipes.com

 

[PipeIT]

How long have you been smoking a pipe? As a newer member I don’t know…

Saying a black stem on a YETI and not knowing the difference is because you didn’t know what you were looking at. Just like you know what you are looking at when it comes to Stanwell.

Companies might make pipes for others, and styles get lost between them, that’s a different story, that is not to say everyone does this.

Now when we are talking about factory pipes that only make their own, someone might mistake one brand for another. Of course with a lot of pipes, there can be similarities, and when they are factory pipes, a lot of them might not be as distinct looking. But there are also a lot of factory pipes very distinct.

And when it comes to artisan carvers, there are certainly a lot of differences.

If you are only talking about making a pipe out of a Standard Shape, then a carver would have to use their imagination and figure ways to stick to a Standard shape with different looks.

The picture you showed depicts two different styles, that their Geographic origins are also different.

The top pipe is an Egg shape of Danish origin/influence.

The bottom pipe is a Bent Billiard of French origin/influence originally, which later became widely accepted as English too.

 

[PLANofMAN]

How long have you been smoking a pipe? As a newer member I don’t know…

Saying a black stem on a YETI and not knowing the difference is because you didn’t know what you were looking at. Just like you know what you are looking at when it comes to Stanwell.

Companies might make pipes for others, and styles get lost between them, that’s a different story, that is not to say everyone does this.

Now when we are talking about factory pipes that only make their own, someone might mistake one brand for another. Of course with a lot of pipes, there can be similarities, and when they are factory pipes, a lot of them might not be as distinct looking. But there are also a lot of factory pipes very distinct.

And when it comes to artisan carvers, there are certainly a lot of differences.

If you are only talking about making a pipe out of a Standard Shape, then a carver would have to use their imagination and figure ways to stick to a Standard shape with different looks.

The picture you showed depicts two different styles, that their Geographic origins are also different.

The top pipe is an Egg shape of Danish origin/influence.

The bottom pipe is a Bent Billiard of French origin/influence originally, which later became widely accepted as English too.

View attachment 351786

They are both called apples by their respective manufacturers, or at least Nørding's egg shape is much narrower. Hence the "apples to apples" joke. The other pipe is a Comoy white label for Riegel's.

I've been smoking pipes for 25 years. Never got into the "hobby" aspect of it until Oregon tried to ban flavored tobacco. Luckily that went nowhere, but I was already down the rabbit hole at that point.

Edit: That's why I say some stupid stuff, but other things I do know. I didn't know pipe collecting was a thing, or that pipes had a range of qualities beyond the obvious. I've got a solid and ever growing collection of books on tobacco and pipes, most of which don't contradict each other. I've managed to avoid the YouTube influencers and the Reddit 'experts,' but got snagged by the pipe forums.

I'm opinionated, but I'm not an expert (except in matters of taste) on smoking pipes, judging grain, or pondering the fine distinctions between a blend that has 1% less of a thing than another blend.

I'm just a modern day codger who spends the day with a pipe in his mouth.

 

[PipeIT]

There is certainly a lot of hobby aspects to this… LOL quite mind boggling too at times.

The top pipe I would still call an Egg, but based on the position and lighting the bottom appears like a Bent Billiard. But there does appear to be some roundness to the bottom and bottom side, almost apple like.

I should of said before I based it off Bent Billiard on how it appears in the pic, a better side profile would help.

Shapes between some makers like this, apple, egg, etc., there can certainly be a mash up mess, of one saying this, another that…

 

[PLANofMAN]

@PipeIT see edit. ^^^

Edit: also...

Riegel's Algerian Briar 184.
A cursory search shows it is identical to current production Comoy 184 pipes, all labeled 'bent apple.'

If you do a quick Google search for "Nording Apple pipe" and "Nording egg pipe" you'll spot the differences. Both are distinct from his "brandy" shape as well. In some ways, his apple shape is more like an 'author' shape.

I just go by whatever the maker thinks the shape is. Keeps me sane.

Here's the other pipe, since it wasn't a great angle either.

Same pipe, same line, likely not made by Erik (based on stamping).

The other Nørding I have.

Same shape, with a little more meat left on the back of the bowl. The top Nørding is a free-hand. The middle one ??? Bottom is the machine made version of this shape (I think). For all I know, they are all free hand carved.

I'm not sure that I've found the manufacturer calling them anything but a number, honestly.

 

[JoburgB2]

@PipeIT see edit. ^^^

Edit: also...
View attachment 351794
Riegel's Algerian Briar 184.
A cursory search shows it is identical to current production Comoy 184 pipes, all labeled 'bent apple.'

If you do a quick Google search for "Nording Apple pipe" and "Nording egg pipe" you'll spot the differences. Both are distinct from his "brandy" shape as well. In some ways, his apple shape is more like an 'author' shape.

I just go by whatever the maker thinks the shape is. Keeps me sane.

Here's the other pipe, since it wasn't a great angle either.
View attachment 351797
Same pipe, same line, likely not made by Erik (based on stamping).
View attachment 351801
The other Nørding I have.
View attachment 351800
Same shape, with a little more meat left on the back of the bowl . . .

Nice. That pipe shape, bowl with “more meat” and the bent shank and bending stem, looks familiar. I have a Tim West that has a similar design. I got it in 1991. It looks like this, and has a spot of plateau grain on the bottom of the bowl.

 

[PLANofMAN]

Nice. That pipe shape, bowl with “more meat” and the bent shank and bending stem, looks familiar. I have a Tim West that has a similar design. I got it in 1991. It looks like this, and has a spot of plateau grain on the bottom of the bowl.
View attachment 351808

Heh, I was trying to figure out how the top suddenly got birdseye and why someone would pack tobacco in it that tight. It took me way longer to realize that was plateaux on the bottom of the bowl than it should have.

Gorgeous pipe.

The three I posted are all early 90's pipes too. The top two were made between 1990 and 1992. The 'Scandinavian Originals' pipe on the bottom was probably made in the early 90's as well, based on the little information I've been able to find. The shape is still made by Danish carvers, but doesn't seem to have been a wildly popular shape, at least for Nørding.

I really ought to look into Tim West pipes. I've heard if one likes Nørding, but really wants filters, Tim West pipes are the answer.

 

[PLANofMAN]

I also forgot to mention, what is this “Normal” Danish Billiard shape you are referring to? Are you simply talking about a typical Billiard shape?

If you ask, where is the birthplace of the briar pipe, that is considered Saint- Claude France, and then where many traditional shapes were also suppose to originate from, including the Billiard.

The History of Saint-Claude, France | The Birthplace of the Briar Pipe

Learn more about the early years of briar pipe making with this look into the history of Saint-Claude, France.

www.smokingpipes.com

I missed this post I think.

When I say "typical Danish Billiard" I mean that the sides of the bowl are slightly tapered, the chamber mouth has thinner walls at the opening, the base of the bowl is slightly widened, and the transition from bowl to shank is less pronounced than a person would see on a traditional English or French billiard pipe.

I'm not saying the Danish carvers mentally melt traditional designs like wax and carve that idea, but... they kind of seem to do just that a lot of the time.

 

[JoburgB2]

I really ought to look into Tim West pipes. I've heard if one likes Nørding, but really wants filters, Tim West pipes are the answer.

Thanks! I really like my 91 Tim West pipe, and have very fond specific memories of smoking it in the African bush. And Tim is from my hometown so there’s that sentiment too. I wasn’t sure how to interpret your last sentence, however. Which maker, Nørding or West, did you imply might make filter pipes, or did I misunderstand completely? Neither of the two Tim West pipes that I have accommodate a filter. I do not know about Nørding.

 

[PipeIT]

Ahhh yeah, it looks a little mix of Apple/Brandy, the other looks a little mix of Brandy/Egg.

 

[PipeIT]

Nice. That pipe shape, bowl with “more meat” and the bent shank and bending stem, looks familiar. I have a Tim West that has a similar design. I got it in 1991. It looks like this, and has a spot of plateau grain on the bottom of the bowl.
View attachment 351808

What’s going on with the bottom of the pipe in the third pic?