Too much black rustication ... is there no more clean briar left? I don't want to pay over $300 for a simple smooth pipe.
Stolen or Style or Innovation
- Thread starter cosmicfolklore
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I just noticed something else: Tristan Lefebvre makes pipes in the shape and finish of Castellos. They’re homages I guess. They’re described as such.
Copying is a common form of either improvement, admiration, or plagiarism. It's also a form of business. I see nobody complaining about the blatant Preben Holm copies that Americans churned out by the thousand. nording has a place at the table and has no need to copy but chooses to do some inspiration work. It's like music with all the covers and remixes. A lot of times the original is better. Sometimes it's the other way around. As long as there have been innovators, there have been those who copied or were inspired. As long as Nording is not claiming original design on these, I'd say no worries. To illustrate the above ideas, I would like to introduce you to the four chord song.
(They learned about it at pipeshows. Sugarhit hand food is a natural.... start on an actual meal and someone will walk up to your table every time.)
I think in most endeavors there are artisans/innovators and craftsmen/mechanics. There is free communication between these camps, each borrowing from the other. As to where Nording falls is immaterial to me, I have one of his pipes, and it smokes fine. Most of his stuff though is unappealing to my eye.
Many of the Nordings look horrible. I really dislike them.
This is quite funny. Okay, let's talk about Peder Jeppesen. He has made pipes for nearly 25 years; "I started at Karl Erik Ottendahl, and continued after this at legendary Erik Nørding, from whom I learned all steps of pipe making and decoration work."
So there you have it. Peder Jeppesen makes ornamentation like Erik Nørding, because that's who he learned it from. The pipe you picked to showcase said ornamentation is a blatant copy of a Sixten Ivarsson design, the 63 and 64 in Stanwell catalogs. That pipe shape pre-exists Peder by some 20 years at least.
If the pipe makers aren't crying about copying, I wouldn't worry about it. They certainly aren't. Imitation, after all, is the sincerest form of flattery.
Show me examples of Nordings that Jeppeson copied before he Jeppeson arrived at his style?
Just show me some metal ornate bandwork done by Nording 25+ years ago.
That said, it’s all pretty obvious. But, on the otherhand, this thread wasn’t meant to be taken too seriously, just catalyst for thought.
Kind of reminds me of the way some bands will not play a single genre but will do their version of many different genres. Like they'll have their funk song or their country song. Nording kind of seems like that with other pipe makers. Funny thing though I often like his versions better.
I had assumed that Jeppersen made and sold to Nording the Jeppersen looking pipes. Or at least the fitments.
And while I don't have neither the Eltang nor the Nording Popeye pipe, I prefer the Nording copy. I don't like the idea of sucking on heated resin impregnated carbon fiber.
And while I don't have neither the Eltang nor the Nording Popeye pipe, I prefer the Nording copy. I don't like the idea of sucking on heated resin impregnated carbon fiber.
That’s a really good point that escaped me. He does make pipes for a few other folks, like Per Jensen.
When I was talking to Skip at the Briary the other day on an unrelated matter, he mentioned that Nørding did a small set of pipes with ornate metalwork and inset coins from ancient Byzantium some decades back.
He said he saw one sell at a show to a fellow for $5,000. The guy just had to have it. Skip said it was the ugliest pipe he'd ever seen and had the baldest grain he'd ever seen on a Nørding pipe. He ordered 125 of them for his shop. "If people will pay for a $5,000 pipe, I'll carry $5,000 pipes. Any pipe shop would love to sell a $5,000 pipe."
I'm summarizing here, but that was an example. Just because I've never seen an old pipe of Nørding's with fancy metal work, doesn't mean they don't exist. Doesn't mean they do, either. There isn't much information on the Internet about Nørding pipes before 1995 or so.
Gotta love Nordic minimalism.Very convenient to get inspired by an arbitrary thing, just after someone else makes a huge splash with the same design. This is why I never trust what business reps say. It's all full of shit. Anyone who believes that Nording just happened to be inspired by this thingamajig to make the exact shape that Eltang did is an idiot.
...of course take that with a grain of salt.
I'm absolutely positive neither of them took any inspiration whatsoever from this iconic pipe design... *rolleyes*
There's very little 'design' to a tube stuck in a larger tube.
Here's an old Kiko pipe of my brother-in-law's that also predates their version of the poker. Ironically, it looks more Danish than the Danish pipes.
It might be a sin to say it, considering my last two pipe purchases were both Nørding pipes, but I find many of his designs kind of ugly. The ones I like are his more 'conservative' Danish designs. Traditional English, with a dash of panache and grace. Mostly older stuff, but not the Danish Fancy stuff his shop churns out.
Is it possible to to be a huge fan of Danish Pipe design while not finding the full-on Danish Fancy 'freehand' pipes all that appealing? I like the tapered rims, I like plateaux, I like the fat taper of the stummels, but don't care for the lack of a defined pipe shape, if that makes any sense?
The sad thing about Nording, they are not the quality they were in his early days of pipe making. Occasionally a few he supposedly still makes himself by hand might exhibit his past qualities, but that doesn’t seem often.
Clearly Nording went for Mass Production, whereas Radice as an example kept it small, and produces overall better quality.
We all get it, looks are in the eye’s of the beholder, and the ugliest looking briar pipe can be a good smoker.
But, when it comes to teaching the new, and even making decisions ourself in determining quality, the exterior looks of wood, even briar can be a determining factor.
Sure a lot of people just want a tool, and that is all it is to them, so aesthetics aren’t important.
But look at this pipe, clearly fashion and design are incorporated into this, it was not simply made as a basic tool, but a form of style. Yet, the quality of the briar visually speaking is low quality.
There are only a few carvers using wood of these poor looks…
When you look back at the beginnings of Nording, you see real old school Danish quality style, akin to Preben Holm, and other traditional Danish greats.
This here off of Pipedia is a Second, look at this pipe, what was once considered a Nording Second.
Then here is some of that Danish Flair, Preben like style too.
Danish Estates: Erik Nording Smooth Freehand (B) (1970s-early 1980s) Tobacco Pipe
Now this, is Old School Danish Nording!
Early Nording On MBSD Pipes
Did you notice the grain on all three of these older pipes…
Regardless of Style Stolen or Innovation, one thing is very clear, Nording is not at all once what it use to be.
Clearly Nording went for Mass Production, whereas Radice as an example kept it small, and produces overall better quality.
We all get it, looks are in the eye’s of the beholder, and the ugliest looking briar pipe can be a good smoker.
But, when it comes to teaching the new, and even making decisions ourself in determining quality, the exterior looks of wood, even briar can be a determining factor.
Sure a lot of people just want a tool, and that is all it is to them, so aesthetics aren’t important.
But look at this pipe, clearly fashion and design are incorporated into this, it was not simply made as a basic tool, but a form of style. Yet, the quality of the briar visually speaking is low quality.
There are only a few carvers using wood of these poor looks…
When you look back at the beginnings of Nording, you see real old school Danish quality style, akin to Preben Holm, and other traditional Danish greats.
This here off of Pipedia is a Second, look at this pipe, what was once considered a Nording Second.
Then here is some of that Danish Flair, Preben like style too.
Danish Estates: Erik Nording Smooth Freehand (B) (1970s-early 1980s) Tobacco Pipe
Now this, is Old School Danish Nording!
Early Nording On MBSD Pipes
Did you notice the grain on all three of these older pipes…
Regardless of Style Stolen or Innovation, one thing is very clear, Nording is not at all once what it use to be.
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@cosmicfolklore I was editing over my reply, did you see the Early Nording On MBSD Pipes I posted?
Something others mentioned, but I didn’t read deeply into…
Traditional shapes being used by others;
Billiard
Brandy
Egg
Apple
Rhodesian
Bulldog
Using these styles isn’t copying, it’s any uniqueness you add onto a traditional shape, that clearly defines a difference, never seen before, and something clearly only done by that carver, putting their own style to it, that then is what matters.
Here’s a Billiard, a shape probably done by everyone. But Yeti puts a high gloss sheen on his pipes with Bakelite stems of various colors, and this is his spin on a Traditional shape, with his touch, that says this is a YETI.
So if we start seeing high sheen similar glossy pipes with colored bakelite stems, well hmm…
Something others mentioned, but I didn’t read deeply into…
Traditional shapes being used by others;
Billiard
Brandy
Egg
Apple
Rhodesian
Bulldog
Using these styles isn’t copying, it’s any uniqueness you add onto a traditional shape, that clearly defines a difference, never seen before, and something clearly only done by that carver, putting their own style to it, that then is what matters.
Here’s a Billiard, a shape probably done by everyone. But Yeti puts a high gloss sheen on his pipes with Bakelite stems of various colors, and this is his spin on a Traditional shape, with his touch, that says this is a YETI.
So if we start seeing high sheen similar glossy pipes with colored bakelite stems, well hmm…
Adding a taper to the bowl isn't "his spin." It's the normal Danish Billiard shape, impressed so deeply on the Danish psyche by Ivarsson and his children, almost every 'traditional' pipe shape gets the Ivarsson design treatment.
If a black standard billiard stem was stuck on that pipe, I wouldn't spot it as a YETI. Danish or Danish Inspired? Yes. Specific maker? Nope.
I can generally spot a Stanwell in a pile of pipes from five feet away, so I get it. Each maker has that something, a style unique to themselves, but overlaps other people's styles. You can probably do the same with YETI's.
Danish Pipe makers are an incestuous bunch. You start following who trained whom and it all turns into a circle.
I suspect Stanwell is to blame. You have one company that produces pipes, but also licensed or purchased the rights to other pipe maker's designs. If you want a Stanwell pipe, an Ivarsson pipe, and an Anne Julie pipe, well guess what, Stanwell had you covered for all three designs.
In this economy, as a pipe maker, you just poke your head up and keep treading water the best you can. This is, sadly, a dying hobby. STG's recent acquisition isn't a cause, but a symptom.
Edit: It's not exactly like comparing apples to apples, you know.
You misquoted me, I didn’t say anything about a Taper…
I said;
Yeti puts a high gloss sheen on his pipes with Bakelite stems of various colors, and this is his spin
Anyone that knows YETI knows this, it’s common knowledge, this is his signature look, of course he does make different shapes too. But overall, every pipe is typically high gloss with bakelite colors. And if he’s not using bakelite on various pipes, they are still high gloss.
Yeti Pipes
www.yetipipe.com