Show Off Your Kaywoodie Pipes

[xrundog]

I guess it could be a newer pipe and the circled T is for Thorn. Stinger looks approximately correct. Clear stem marks it as fairly modern though. Assuming the stem goes with it. Where’s a YB collector when you need one?

 

[Sobrbiker]

One sweet pipe, what shape number is it?

Sorry, it’s got no shape number. I don’t know if any Campuses do.

 

[milehighme]

Here is my newest Kaywoodie. I found it a bruised and battered in an antique store and this is how it looks after some tlc. I know it was made between 1935-38, I know its called a Kohinoor, but for the life of me I cannot find a value for it. The search continues!

 

[Sobrbiker]

Here is my newest Kaywoodie. I found it a bruised and battered in an antique store and this is how it looks after some tlc. I know it was made between 1935-38, I know its called a Kohinoor, but for the life of me I cannot find a value for it. The search continues!
View attachment 327727View attachment 327724

Very cool.
Intact stinger? Value on our beloved old Kaywoodies is all over the place.
With an intact stinger, someone may pay into triple digits for it, or not. Kind of depends where the moon cycle is and such…
There’s folks here that are way more “collectors” than me that may be able to lend a more objective approach to such a question.

 

[milehighme]

Very cool.
Intact stinger? Value on our beloved old Kaywoodies is all over the place.
With an intact stinger, someone may pay into triple digits for it, or not. Kind of depends where the moon cycle is and such…
There’s folks here that are way more “collectors” than me that may be able to lend a more objective approach to such a question.

Yes, sorry forgot the stinger

 

[Sobrbiker]

Dang that’s pretty!!

 

[milehighme]

Dang that’s pretty!!

Thank you!

 

[xrundog]

Here is my newest Kaywoodie. I found it a bruised and battered in an antique store and this is how it looks after some tlc. I know it was made between 1935-38, I know its called a Kohinoor, but for the life of me I cannot find a value for it. The search continues!
View attachment 327727View attachment 327724

That’s a pretty nice example. I used to collect Kaywoodies so I understand dating and nomenclature. I don’t have a lot these days but will still grab the occasional pipe on ebay that I find interesting. So I’m kind of paying attention to what they go for. I’ve bought several rarer pipes for what I thought were really low prices. And I’ve paid more than I wanted to in a couple instances because sometimes the question is: When will you see another one? And I’ve seen some wildly high auction prices I did not participate in. So value is difficult to determine. So auctioning that pipe would probably be your best chance at a good pay day should you want to sell it. You need a wild eyed Kaywoodie collector. That’s the best way to find one. Unless someone PMs you with a crazy offer.

 

[milehighme]

That’s a pretty nice example. I used to collect Kaywoodies so I understand dating and nomenclature. I don’t have a lot these days but will still grab the occasional pipe on ebay that I find interesting. So I’m kind of paying attention to what they go for. I’ve bought several rarer pipes for what I thought were really low prices. And I’ve paid more than I wanted to in a couple instances because sometimes the question is: When will you see another one? And I’ve seen some wildly high auction prices I did not participate in. So value is difficult to determine. So auctioning that pipe would probably be your best chance at a good pay day should you want to sell it. You need a wild eyed Kaywoodie collector. That’s the best way to find one. Unless someone PMs you with a crazy offer.

That’s good advice, thank you for that. I’m not not looking to win the lottery here I promise you, I’d just like to know market value. That will tell me if it joins my personal collection which I think it may. I fall in love with every pipe I work on. This one just hits harder than most because it seems so unique. Who knows maybe it’s not.

 

[xrundog]

That’s good advice, thank you for that. I’m not not looking to win the lottery here I promise you, I’d just like to know market value. That will tell me if it joins my personal collection which I think it may. I fall in love with every pipe I work on. This one just hits harder than most because it seems so unique. Who knows maybe it’s not.

Oh, it’s fairly unusual. You can buy a nice vintage billiard or Apple anytime. The panels are a little rarer. Especially older ones. I don’t think I’ve ever seen a Kohinoor on eBay. If you like the rarer oddballs, then that’s a keeper. Those big ball stinger pipes are good smokers.

 

[chumleeroy]

@milk Here is a Premier, Paneled Apple, LITESHELL, 47 from the 30’sView attachment 204472View attachment 204473

Wow, first time seeing/hearing about these... very cool!

 

[chumleeroy]

It's tough to know where to begin with this one. Kaywoodie and its related entities form a story fully as convoluted as the Cadogan analogue on the other side of the Atlantic. Worsening the tangle, Kaywoodie and Cadogan held interlocking interests in subsidiaries at one point to facilitate each of their export sales. To a large extent the Pipedia version is correct, as far as it goes, although details are sometimes seriously wrong. I've put off doing anything about it because of the complexity and multiplicity of people, companies, and events. I actually started a draft a dozen years ago but had to set it aside due to more pressing obligations (i.e. earning a living); it'll be a retirement project assuming I live that long. For now I'll make a few points and provide an extremely brief chronology. Hopefully this will provide a little incremental clarity.

First the prefatory remarks:

-it's almost impossible to make sense of this mess without know the individuals involved; each entity brought its own people into the mix, and in many cases they (or their children) played key roles

-think of an org chart of hideous complexity with shifting lines leading from one box to another, criss-crossing like cooked spaghetti dumped on the floor. To really understand what happened you need to create multiple parallel timelines showing when companies were created, merged, bought, and sold until you wind up with the SM Frank of today.

Here's a grossly simplified narrative. Each of these entities could easily be the subject of a chapter in a tediously long book:

-The oldest business is KB&B (1851), the key men were Leopold Kaufmann and Solomon Bondy, later joined by Leopold's brother Gottlieb Kaufmann
-Next came Reiss Bros & Co (c. 1886); the key men were brothers Julius and Otto Reiss (another brother named Nathan was in the tobacco leaf business), plus their sister Marie Reiss' husband Nathan Burger, and most importantly later on Marie's son Jacob (later Anglicized to John) David Burger; he played the pivotal role in the industry consolidation which happened a few decades later
-Next comes the Premier Briar Pipe Co (June 13, 1913), formed by Carl Hirsch (who immediately prior to this foray into pipemaking on a large scale had started another company which had gone bankrupt about the same time this venture was launched). Carl's nephew Rudolph Hirsch was to play an important leadership role in the combined businesses many years later
-Reiss-Premier Pipe Co was formed as the result of a merger between Reiss Bros and Premier Briar Pipe in 1920. The deal was orchestrated by John Burger (by this time his father and two uncles, the three original partners in Reiss Bros, were long dead) who ran the combined entity
-In August 1926 Reiss-Premier purchased a controlling interest in KB&B and operated it as "an associate company". Another "associate company" at that time was the Civic Premier Pipe Co, which was designated as the American representative of the UK's Civic Pipe Company, Ltd (the relationship between Cadogan and Reiss-Premier et al is worth a chapter of its own; this arrangement of course accounts for the appearance of the made-in-England Drinkless pipes appearing at this time). In the wake of the KB&B deal Reiss-Premier grew to 300 workers
-Five months before the crash of 1929, in April of that year, Burger negotiated a partial sale of Reiss-Premier to United Cigar Stores of America under David Schulte in the form of a stock swap. United Cigars purchased 49% of the company for equity in United Cigar valued at $735,000
-Meanwhile there is a parallel path involving the progress of Samuel Morris Frank (S. M. Frank & Co est. 1900) as he grew his business both organically and through acquisition. Two examples of the latter are the purchase of Manhattan Briar in 1922 from American Tobacco, and more significantly of Wm Demuth & Co bought from D. A. Schulte Inc (a subsidiary of the Schulte Retail Store Corp) in 1937. Here again the story is complicated but in brief Schulte had bought Demuth in the Spring of 1927. By the mid Thirties the Depression had taken a severe toll on Schulte's business and it was in financial distress. A legal reorganization that started in 1936 continued into 1937, in which year Schulte sold Demuth to S. M. Frank to raise some much needed cash
-After the acquisition Frank, driven at least in part by an impending loss of its own factory due to eminent domain, promptly consolidated its production into the Demuth Richmond Hill facility
-Meanwhile back at Reiss-Premier when John Burger died in 1944, Rudolph Hirsch wound up winning the succession contest to run the combined businesses
-Just six years later Associated Products, a Chicago manufacturer of deodorants, bought Reiss-Premier at the very end of 1950. The reasons for this are hazy to me; I suspect but can't prove it was yet another example of the unrelated diversification strategy which led to the creation of so many disparate conglomerates in the years after WW2 (e.g. ITT, GE, etc)
-Associated Products held the business for five years before selling it to S. M. Frank in 1955, which retains Reiss-Premier to this day


So there you have a light sketch of how the consolidation of most of the major American pipe manufacturers took place. I'll wrap up by making two smaller points. First, Kaywoodie as a brand dates to approximately March 1919. It was a deliberate renaming of the Dinwoodie, which itself dated from November 1916. Text from an ad to the trade dated March 1 1919: "In order to associate the name of the Dinwoodie pipe with the name of our house, it will hereafter be known as the Kaywoodie. Kay will serve to identify this superlative Italian Bruyere pipe with our name, KAUFMANN BROS. & BONDY." Second, why people refer to the Drinkless as a patent is unclear to me. While filed with the US Patent Office the actual grant (213598) is clearly for a trademark, i.e. the use of the word "Drinkless" in this context, not any internals to the pipe.

In reviewing the above I realize for those interested in Kaywoodie it is entirely to short, while for those who are not it must be a snooze fest of epic proportions. I apologize to both groups.

Wow thank you for dropping some knowledge on us neophytes.

I have a CIVIC made "drinkless" (stamped next to civic.) Has a clover on stem, and push bit wnmost of the drinkless stinger. No where is Kaywoodie mentioned. I posted it yesterday trying to shine some light onto its shadowy past. Could I trouble you to check out the post and give me your 2 cents on production year? Also you are the first person I've been able to find who used CIVIC in the same sentence as Premier and Kaywoodie.

Any info would be greatly valued.
Thank you

 

[chumleeroy]

Rock Ambera, Thorn “Rounded Square” 1931-33View attachment 204879View attachment 204880
Carburetor Triangle shank Bulldog 1939-40View attachment 204881View attachment 204882View attachment 204883

Wow I have the "rounded square" also. I am in love w the blast on mine, very reminiscent of old dunny blasts.

 

[Smoke Wagon]

Wow I have the "rounded square" also. I am in love w the blast on mine, very reminiscent of old dunny blasts.View attachment 338324

What do you mean “blast”?

 

[Sobrbiker]

What do you mean “blast”?

Sandblasted briar finish

 

[chumleeroy]

What do you mean “blast”?

Dunny as in dunhill and

What do you mean “blast”?

Blast as in sand blast

 

[chumleeroy]

smoked the 50B and liked it so much I bought another Kaywoodie.
This time a Super Grain 5131C that I believe is from the 1930.sView attachment 153319
View attachment 153317View attachment 153318

That's a great shape

 

[chumleeroy]

I have gotten obsessive about collecting "Oversized" mid-Century Handmade Kaywoodies. Here are the three I have scored so far...

View attachment 153735View attachment 153736View attachment 153737

God I love these oversized hand mades, is the first one the "Samson"?

 

[chumleeroy]

Three more
A push tenon 5109B Super grain over Kaywoodie
View attachment 153779View attachment 153780

Drinkless over Kaywoodie7751 bought cheaply ,in need of work
View attachment 153781

and a later Standard 114 with some lovely grain,I have read that the later pipes (I think this is 1970s onwards) are not so good but this one called to me and appears in great condition
View attachment 153782View attachment 153783View attachment 153784

Gotta love those pushstems, does yours have a clover logo?

 

[chumleeroy]

I've had a few Kaywoodie pipes over the years, but I seldom smoked them because never was fond of the stinger. I kept these two because they are such oddballs to me. The bulldog I did a little cleaning on it because I couldn't see any stampings. Well guess what, there are no stampings on it because the shank has been replaced. It looks to be rather well done, although no effort was made to match the grain. Other than the clover on the stem the only other mark is the Drinkless stamping on the 4 hole stinger.
The little 8 panel Kaywoodie Standard pipe is different not only because of its shape, but also the made in England stamp on the right shank. It has a 4 hole stinger, but no stampings on it. Even though I've had these pipes for a few years, I've yet to do any restoration on them. Eventually....

View attachment 175858
View attachment 175859
View attachment 175860

View attachment 175861
View attachment 175862
View attachment 175863

Loves the 82 (very nice shank spice on yours)