Sam Gawith

[gawithhoggarth]

By soaked in Propylenglycol I mean that, as you know and due to the great problem that occurred with your tobaccos between 2018 and 2019, which arrived completely moldy (I attach photos) or completely dry, you have decided to impregnate your tobacco in this type of alcohol (Propylenglycol) in indecent amounts, so much so that cans without vacuum packaging maintain their moisture, so much so that tobacco when it is "dry" seems to remain moist.
During those years; 2018, 2019, 2020... coincidentally, your cans changed, according to close sources your European can supplier retired and you decided to cut costs by ordering the cans from China, a fatal mistake instead of looking for a local or European can supplier. As you already know, the problem with these Chinese cans is that they are made of a much softer metal and of poorer quality and lose their vacuum over time... The packaging machine does not work well, you said... You know, from Spain, there were hundreds of complaints and cans returned... dozens of 250g packages returned to the tobacconists...
You even went so far as to put glue inside the cans (photo attached) so that they would not lose the vacuum packaging... but without success... the cans lost it.
Seeing that it was inevitable, your speech changed, saying that now Samuel Gawith did not manufacture his tobacco prepared for aging, when we all knew that Samuel Gawith had always had tins in perfect condition that endured decades of aging in the cellar.
We, who love tobacco and this noble art above all else, feel sorry and are truly sad to see how a company with so many years of prestige behind it doubles its prices and lowers its quality so much.
It is totally logical that the prices go up... but that the quality be maintained, not that the quality go down. Most veteran pipe smokers in Spain already advocate manufacturers
like Kohlhase & Kopp, more constant and neat, with perfect cans and tobaccos without problems, at lower prices.

LOL.....glycol has always been added to the tobacco and is not added in any different amounts now as it was years go. However, SG used to be literally soaked in water and so much went mouldy. To stop this problem, we no longer add as much water to SG blends.

We had a massive problem with our former distributor in Spain in these years you talk about. He re-packaged the tobacco, it was clearly not kept in appropriate warehouse conditions and then much went mouldy. We no longer work with this guy or his company and indeed he owes us an awful lot of money. This is why 250g packages were returned. The problem lay with the distributor. And as you state it was 250g packages. NOT 50g tins.

Not sure who your close sources are, but let me give you an even closer source - ME! I have commented numerous times on the tin situation here and on many other forums and we even put out a press release about it. So its not some secret. The tin manufacturer we used many years ago was bought out and stopped producing the tins we needed. Nothing to do with cutting costs. We spent a year trying to find a new tin supplier. We had to get some temporary tins in the meantime which did not seal as well as had hoped and we were led to believe and so these had the cardboard inserts put in them to give them strength. Your information (i.e. rumours) are completely wrong. We looked for tin manufacturers all over, in Europe and beyond. There are no local tin manufacturers! We hoped to work with a European supplier but it was not possible as they would have had to invest in whole new machinery just to make our tins.

Then we spent a lot of time on R&D with the current tin manufacturer, changed the design and now have a good tin. It seals very well, even without a vacuum. Indeed the seal without a vacuum is much stronger than the old tin. However, we still put all the tins through the vacuum sealer.

My stance (speech) has never changed. We have never made tobacco for ageing. We make tobacco to be smoked. IF you choose to age, that is your decision and therefore you need to decide how to do that and in what container and conditions. Gawith's have been producing tobacco for over 200 years. Ageing tobacco is therefore a relatively new idea, mostly coming from America.

Of course tobacco manufactured within the EU and sold to other EU countries will be cheaper, there is not the same transport issues, taxes, tariffs, track and trace etc. We have not lowered quality. Except for less water being added now, the way the tobacco is made is exactly the same. Yes the tins are different. We are a tobacco manufacturer, not a tin manufacturer so we have to use what we can be supplied with. But the tins we have now are fine for the purpose they are designed for - packaging the tobacco so it gets to the end consumer in good condition and ready to be smoked.

We are a premium traditional manufacturer and that comes at a price.

So for all your moaning about tins and quality, you still the have SG tobaccos in your top 15, indeed as you say the top 5, so I guess quality cannot be that bad hey????????

I suggest you stop listening to rumour, making up stories and timelines to suit your narrative and if you enjoy the tobacco buy it and smoke it, if you don't, buy something else.

 

[gawithhoggarth]

The whole unsealed tin thing does piss me off. Made to age or not, I think you should be able to buy a tin and it be sealed. Regardless of this I still continue to buy their products. Gotta have my Gawith fix.

The tin is sealed. In fact the current tins have a very good seal. You can open the tin, put the lid back on and its seals well. Perfect for keeping tobacco in good condition for it to reach the consumer and then so the consumer can open and reseal the tin while he enjoys the smoke.

 

[jpberg]

LOL.....glycol has always been added to the tobacco and is not added in any different amounts now as it was years go. However, SG used to be literally soaked in water and so much went mouldy. To stop this problem, we no longer add as much water to SG blends.

We had a massive problem with our former distributor in Spain in these years you talk about. He re-packaged the tobacco, it was clearly not kept in appropriate warehouse conditions and then much went mouldy. We no longer work with this guy or his company and indeed he owes us an awful lot of money. This is why 250g packages were returned. The problem lay with the distributor. And as you state it was 250g packages. NOT 50g tins.

Not sure who your close sources are, but let me give you an even closer source - ME! I have commented numerous times on the tin situation here and on many other forums and we even put out a press release about it. So its not some secret. The tin manufacturer we used many years ago was bought out and stopped producing the tins we needed. Nothing to do with cutting costs. We spent a year trying to find a new tin supplier. We had to get some temporary tins in the meantime which did not seal as well as had hoped and we were led to believe and so these had the cardboard inserts put in them to give them strength. Your information (i.e. rumours) are completely wrong. We looked for tin manufacturers all over, in Europe and beyond. There are no local tin manufacturers! We hoped to work with a European supplier but it was not possible as they would have had to invest in whole new machinery just to make our tins.

Then we spent a lot of time on R&D with the current tin manufacturer, changed the design and now have a good tin. It seals very well, even without a vacuum. Indeed the seal without a vacuum is much stronger than the old tin. However, we still put all the tins through the vacuum sealer.

My stance (speech) has never changed. We have never made tobacco for ageing. We make tobacco to be smoked. IF you choose to age, that is your decision and therefore you need to decide how to do that and in what container and conditions. Gawith's have been producing tobacco for over 200 years. Ageing tobacco is therefore a relatively new idea, mostly coming from America.

Of course tobacco manufactured within the EU and sold to other EU countries will be cheaper, there is not the same transport issues, taxes, tariffs, track and trace etc. We have not lowered quality. Except for less water being added now, the way the tobacco is made is exactly the same. Yes the tins are different. We are a tobacco manufacturer, not a tin manufacturer so we have to use what we can be supplied with. But the tins we have now are fine for the purpose they are designed for - packaging the tobacco so it gets to the end consumer in good condition and ready to be smoked.

We are a premium traditional manufacturer and that comes at a price.

So for all your moaning about tins and quality, you still the have SG tobaccos in your top 15, indeed as you say the top 5, so I guess quality cannot be that bad hey????????

I suggest you stop listening to rumour, making up stories and timelines to suit your narrative and if you enjoy the tobacco buy it and smoke it, if you don't, buy something else.

Rachel, if you ditch the ingrate Spaniards, you can send the surplus stateside.
Just thinking out loud here.

 

[Davide Dogo (PIPA&BARBA)]

The tin is sealed. In fact the current tins have a very good seal. You can open the tin, put the lid back on and its seals well. Perfect for keeping tobacco in good condition for it to reach the consumer and then so the consumer can open and reseal the tin while he enjoys the

This is completely false, In fact, I could show you that 7 out of 10 cans have lost their vacuum packaging.To be a family business, you would have to be more humble and professional and of course put a much more empathetic person to manage Social Management. It would be much nobler to accept that costs were cut and quality suffered rather than want to dodge the buck.

 

[AppalachianPipe92]

IBTL

 

[Davide Dogo (PIPA&BARBA)]

LOL.....glycol has always been added to the tobacco and is not added in any different amounts now as it was years go. However, SG used to be literally soaked in water and so much went mouldy. To stop this problem, we no longer add as much water to SG blends.

We had a massive problem with our former distributor in Spain in these years you talk about. He re-packaged the tobacco, it was clearly not kept in appropriate warehouse conditions and then much went mouldy. We no longer work with this guy or his company and indeed he owes us an awful lot of money. This is why 250g packages were returned. The problem lay with the distributor. And as you state it was 250g packages. NOT 50g tins.

Not sure who your close sources are, but let me give you an even closer source - ME! I have commented numerous times on the tin situation here and on many other forums and we even put out a press release about it. So its not some secret. The tin manufacturer we used many years ago was bought out and stopped producing the tins we needed. Nothing to do with cutting costs. We spent a year trying to find a new tin supplier. We had to get some temporary tins in the meantime which did not seal as well as had hoped and we were led to believe and so these had the cardboard inserts put in them to give them strength. Your information (i.e. rumours) are completely wrong. We looked for tin manufacturers all over, in Europe and beyond. There are no local tin manufacturers! We hoped to work with a European supplier but it was not possible as they would have had to invest in whole new machinery just to make our tins.

Then we spent a lot of time on R&D with the current tin manufacturer, changed the design and now have a good tin. It seals very well, even without a vacuum. Indeed the seal without a vacuum is much stronger than the old tin. However, we still put all the tins through the vacuum sealer.

My stance (speech) has never changed. We have never made tobacco for ageing. We make tobacco to be smoked. IF you choose to age, that is your decision and therefore you need to decide how to do that and in what container and conditions. Gawith's have been producing tobacco for over 200 years. Ageing tobacco is therefore a relatively new idea, mostly coming from America.

Of course tobacco manufactured within the EU and sold to other EU countries will be cheaper, there is not the same transport issues, taxes, tariffs, track and trace etc. We have not lowered quality. Except for less water being added now, the way the tobacco is made is exactly the same. Yes the tins are different. We are a tobacco manufacturer, not a tin manufacturer so we have to use what we can be supplied with. But the tins we have now are fine for the purpose they are designed for - packaging the tobacco so it gets to the end consumer in good condition and ready to be smoked.

We are a premium traditional manufacturer and that comes at a price.

So for all your moaning about tins and quality, you still the have SG tobaccos in your top 15, indeed as you say the top 5, so I guess quality cannot be that bad hey????????

I suggest you stop listening to rumour, making up stories and timelines to suit your narrative and if you enjoy the tobacco buy it and smoke it, if you don't, buy something else.

Those who do not assume their past mistakes are doomed to suffer them in the future, they can advertise and sell whatever smoke they want but you know the truth about what happened with SG in Spain, just like I do and Spanish pipe smokers know it too. The Top represents the legacy of the brand but Capstan, for price, quality, continuity, tightness of the can, combustion and presentation is already by above SG... And that's the future.

 

[Brendan]

Fuck me dead.


If the tins aren't to your 'standard' buy some fucking mason jars and move on?


Some of you guys need to get laid more.

 

[gawithhoggarth]

Yes I am very familiar with the situation in Spain as I was handling the legal side of it and debt collection.
Super, go enjoy your Capstan.

 

[gawithhoggarth]

This is completely false, In fact, I could show you that 7 out of 10 cans have lost their vacuum packaging.To be a family business, you would have to be more humble and professional and of course put a much more empathetic person to manage Social Management. It would be much nobler to accept that costs were cut and quality suffered rather than want to dodge the buck.

Where did I mention vacuum in the above. I said the tins seal well. A tin can seal well, with or without a vacuum.
You want me to lie and say it was cost cutting when it wasn't. The old tins are simply not available. No similar tins can be found. So we either use the current tins which we feel are a good replacement, or we stop packaging in tins.
I don't feel the need to be empathetic to people that are just moaning for the sake of moaning. If the tin does not seal enough for you, place the tobacco in a different container. Easy!
I have stated time and time again exactly what the situation was.

 

[gamzultovah]

Fuck me dead.


If the tins aren't to your 'standard' buy some fucking mason jars and move on?


Some of you guys need to get laid more.

They would have to have a high enough T level in order to want to get laid. If you know then you know…

 

[gamzultovah]

I sincerely hope the Mods leave this thread opened long enough for some of the more seasoned members to chime in. Now that would be interesting content.

 

[Papamique]

I am not going to be fooled into thinking there is this great G&H shortage because of a thread here. I have had ZERO problem finding my favorite Gawith & Hogarth blends (Especially in the past two years). When a drop happens I buy what I need for my own tobacco smoking pleasure. McClelland is much harder for me to find as is esoterica blends and I have plenty of those also to enjoy until the next drop, pipe show, estate tobacco find etc.

For me, G&H rank at the top due to the excellent quality of the tobacco, unique production style and packaging (the card stock inside cap is a nice touch). I can get tins AND bulk in all of my favorite blends which is also nice.

You guys (and girls) do a fantastic job, in my opinion, of providing a unique niche tobacco to discriminating pipe smokers. Some may disagree but I believe the demand speaks for itself.

Keep up the good work and for the love of God DONT CHANGE OVER TO MASS PRODUCTION. We have plenty of those available.

 

[condorlover1]

I have exclusively smoked your product in the form of twist and plug for the last 38 years along with a few other plugs such as Condor, Warrior etc. Apart from the change in the Ennerdale it all tastes the same to me. I have noticed changes in Cannon Plug and Grousemoor cut plug but that is to be expected over time. In terms of tins I am afraid your are at the beck of international forces. I don't have a dog in these discussions but we did look into redoing 'cutter' tops and found that it could be done but the lead solder that would have to be used to seal the tin would get us banned by FDA! Have you thought of using those 'Fancy Feast' cat food style ring pull tins that are so popular in the U.S with some distributors. Just a thought!

 

[grimpuffer]

All I want to know is can you ship all the 1792 to me ?

That has to be the ONLY strong tobacco that I smoke that people actually say also smells good when I’m smoking.

I was even shocked when my wife actually asked what I was smoking and said it smelled good.

 

[condorlover1]

The tin problem is what I describe as the 'Russian Tank T90 Problem' instead of the turret getting blown off the lid on the tin has a similar result without having use a British shoulder fired missile! Maybe if you switched to those cans that Mr. Pease uses this would end all these tin discussions?

 

[pantsBoots]

This is completely false, In fact, I could show you that 7 out of 10 cans have lost their vacuum packaging.To be a family business, you would have to be more humble and professional and of course put a much more empathetic person to manage Social Management. It would be much nobler to accept that costs were cut and quality suffered rather than want to dodge the buck.

A tale as old as time: a business gets handed to the owner's children and things start changing.

 

[bent1]

Sure.....we'll just spend a few million on a new machine!!!!!!!!
STG is a massive company with a massive bank account!!!
We are not interested in 'subbing' out our production. We would far rather produce less but good quality and traditionally.

Glad to hear quality is primary concern. Access to increased quality leaf & pre production activities no doubt add to complexity, let alone other concerns.

 

[TheIronMonkey]

The tin problem is what I describe as the 'Russian Tank T90 Problem' instead of the turret getting blown off the lid on the tin has a similar result without having use a British shoulder fired missile! Maybe if you switched to those cans that Mr. Pease uses this would end all these tin discussions?

I think the rectangular tin is part of the branding—I imagine it might be too expensive to get the machinery that can do this, but it would be in keeping with the shape of the tins we expect:

 

[Davide Dogo (PIPA&BARBA)]

Where did I mention vacuum in the above. I said the tins seal well. A tin can seal well, with or without a vacuum.
You want me to lie and say it was cost cutting when it wasn't. The old tins are simply not available. No similar tins can be found. So we either use the current tins which we feel are a good replacement, or we stop packaging in tins.
I don't feel the need to be empathetic to people that are just moaning for the sake of moaning. If the tin does not seal enough for you, place the tobacco in a different container. Easy!
I have stated time and time again exactly what the situation was.

I do think that he should show more idyllic behavior and ways when he is representing a company. I assure him that I am not complaining for complaining, I am only exposing a reality that unfortunately we have suffered. I am surprised by this total behavior of a forum talker, his behavior is the visible face of the company, his rude way of answering a client is the voice of the company. A real shame...

If the customer pays a high amount for a product, the least he expects is that when he opens it, it is in good condition. In the case of tobacco that is neither dry nor full of fungus... If those cans They remain in a tobacconist's shop during a summer in Spain without vacuum packaging, I assure you that they will be like in the video that I attached, with the tobacco totally dry... It's chemistry. It is not the client's responsibility to change the packaged tobacco, nor to moisten the dry tobacco. As much as the clappers of the forum do the ball to him.

Is it so difficult to remove your pride and accept your mistake in a humble and respectable way, instead of acting despotically? I repeat that it is shameful, that a company like Gawith has such an unprofessional person to be its voice and its visible face on networks.

Thanks

 

[sablebrush52]

By soaked in Propylenglycol I mean that, as you know and due to the great problem that occurred with your tobaccos between 2018 and 2019, which arrived completely moldy (I attach photos) or completely dry, you have decided to impregnate your tobacco in this type of alcohol (Propylenglycol) in indecent amounts, so much so that cans without vacuum packaging maintain their moisture, so much so that tobacco when it is "dry" seems to remain moist.
During those years; 2018, 2019, 2020... coincidentally, your cans changed, according to close sources your European can supplier retired and you decided to cut costs by ordering the cans from China, a fatal mistake instead of looking for a local or European can supplier. As you already know, the problem with these Chinese cans is that they are made of a much softer metal and of poorer quality and lose their vacuum over time... The packaging machine does not work well, you said... You know, from Spain, there were hundreds of complaints and cans returned... dozens of 250g packages returned to the tobacconists...
You even went so far as to put glue inside the cans (photo attached) so that they would not lose the vacuum packaging... but without success... the cans lost it.
Seeing that it was inevitable, your speech changed, saying that now Samuel Gawith did not manufacture his tobacco prepared for aging, when we all knew that Samuel Gawith had always had tins in perfect condition that endured decades of aging in the cellar.
We, who love tobacco and this noble art above all else, feel sorry and are truly sad to see how a company with so many years of prestige behind it doubles its prices and lowers its quality so much.
It is totally logical that the prices go up... but that the quality be maintained, not that the quality go down. Most veteran pipe smokers in Spain already advocate manufacturers
like Kohlhase & Kopp, more constant and neat, with perfect cans and tobaccos without problems, at lower prices.

I feel like I'm facing the Spanish Inquisition.

You've made a lot of accusations, stated as facts without sufficient evidence to back them. The images you put up mean nothing. There's no documentation regarding any of it. Unless you were physically present for all of the claims you've made, you're essentially making unproven and undocumented assertions , which is the equivalent of talking out your ass.

Rachel Hoggarth's detailed responses clearly show you don't have a clue. Prove you do by providing detailed documentation for all of your claims. Anonymous pictures are crap. Maybe you should have a discussion with the former Spanish distributor.

Where are the contracts showing that G&H tins are made in China and if actually the case, why that would be significant? SG tobacco came very damp so no wonder that a percentage of them formed active mold. By the way, mold is everywhere, including in the tobaccos you smoke. It's just not yet activated.

Occasional mold has been an issue with SG products well before the merger. I've tossed out several boxes of Best Brtown over the years. Molded over while jarred and I disinfect EVERYTHING before jarring and live in a dry climate. Almost the only stuff that's gone moldy in the cellar.

As for all of the whining about the tins, fucking take some personal responsibility for your decisions and either jar it or bag and heat seal in food grade Mylar if you think that it must have more aging. Further aging is your choice, not a necessity, so take responsibility for your choices.

The assumption blindly followed is that companies like G&H release incomplete products and it's necessary to complete them. That's bullshit and an insult. Further aging is a choice, with the exception of a couple of companies, who shall not be mentioned, who send their tobaccos kicking and screaming out of their crib and into the world, not a necessity. Also not a guarantee of anything. I've had both marvelous and shitty experiences with how blends aged.

And before anyone spouts about how decanting from a tin into a jar will negatively affect the aging process, tell me exactly how, and use something more trustworthy than an Ouija board or your opinion as a source. Because so far I haven't met anyone who can accurately predict how a particular blend will age, much less how jarring will precisely affect the flavors.