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Grimlineman

Might Stick Around
Nov 14, 2023
71
140
Georgia
I'm also very interested in hearing more about 507c =LNF being they are marketed with and without perique. Maybe same as Luxury twist Flake?

Also is it true the old Dunhill now peterson blends are in sales decline and being looked at?

Thanks!
 

skydog

Part of the Furniture Now
Jun 27, 2017
586
1,555
I'm also very interested in hearing more about 507c =LNF being they are marketed with and without perique.

Also is it true the old Dunhill now peterson blends are in sales decline and being looked at?

Thanks!
That's pretty much the only type of questions I have. I know he said a more finalized list of what's being cut should be coming soon. But the 507c=LNF question seems like the big question that can be answered now. Do both contain perique or neither? Or is it just the same VA leaf in both but LNF has perique added to it before pressing?
 

Terry Lennox

Part of the Furniture Now
Aug 11, 2021
537
2,814
Southern California
I appreciate Leonard's candor and clarity. I think it has been helpful and somewhat reassuring. At least I don't need to panic buy 507C Virginia Slices now. One thing all you STG bashers should consider is that they can produce such a high quality much loved blend at scale in their Denmark factory. A little perspective is in order me thinks.
 

woodsroad

Lifer
Oct 10, 2013
12,910
21,568
SE PA USA
That's pretty much the only type of questions I have. I know he said a more finalized list of what's being cut should be coming soon. But the 507c=LNF question seems like the big question that can be answered now. Do both contain perique or neither? Or is it just the same VA leaf in both but LNF has perique added to it before pressing?
Does it matter if nobody can tell?
 

Zamora

Can't Leave
Mar 15, 2023
496
1,319
Olympia, Washington
That's an easy answer. Mac Baren was up for sale at an attractive price, so you buy the company, own the catalog of blends, bring in any specialized equipment that you can use, scrap the rest, and sell the property for a profit. Sutliff is collateral damage. STG already owns Lane, which was an operation similar to Sutliff, so no need for two of them, and you still own the catalog which you can use.

It's not like there's anything new about this. K, formerly K&K, bought McConnell in the 1980's, and have added a number of catalogs to their holdings, like Rattray's. Most blends are made by only a few companies who own a pile of IPs. Gallaher bought Cope's way back in 1952.

Dunhill stopped making their own tobacco products around 1981 and licensed Murray's and McConnell to make their blends. Dunhill never made Navy Rolls. That was a Murray's creation.

Savinelli didn't make their blends, Mac Baren did.

The era of dozens of manufacturers making a limited array of blends is long, long gone. It's now just a handful of manufacturers, some of whom own many brand names.

The majority of pipe smokers have no clue what it was like, the level of individuality, and never will. We've been in a consolidation mode for decades.

When you look at a page on an online site with dozens of different brands displayed, it's an illusion.
Yeah the ownership of stuff with the Dunhill name gets very confusing. I knew they hadn't made their tobaccos and in years (and that Peterson has nothing to do with it beyond licensing their name and logo) but I didn't realize the conglomeration trend went that far back. I know there's a few Peterson branded blends that were never branded as Dunhill, but I'm no idea if Peterson ever actually produced them. It's very similar to how beer and spirits are, hundreds of brands all over the world owned by maybe five big names.
 

jpberg

Lifer
Aug 30, 2011
3,250
7,663
Let’s be very clear here. This thread is for questions poised to Mr. W. Please open your own thread to debate economic theory or strut around like some god damned know it all who is going to put everyone else straight. This thread is specifically to ask questions and get answers from an industry insider who apparently is the one who made the decisions to close down the various production lines. Please take your savoir faire else where and proclaim your nonsense to any and all on another thread. I for one, along with a good many others, do not care to see this thread get locked over some fucken nonsense. Please - open your own thread and leave this one as a Q and A for those who really want to get some answers. No one cares what you have to add. We didn’t come here to listen to a cigar smoking asshole. @didimauw , I hope I am not out of line , but if someone is derailing this thread let’s hope they can be exiled from it for a while. Just my two cents. I apologize if I came across too brisk.
Back on topic - Did I tell you I make my own blends?

Staying on topic is a slippery slope.
 
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MisterBadger

Part of the Furniture Now
Oct 6, 2024
606
4,454
Ludlow, UK
Leonard, I would like to echo the thanks of those here who have already done so, for the time and trouble you've been taking to clarify the situation and offer a cautious prognisis for the future, to the best of your knowlege and ability. However, your comments thus seem to have (understandably) related solely to the US market: what about us Brits?

We may be a small minority here, but we are customers nonetheless. What about the HH range of MacBaren's, for example? Why do we have to send over to Germany for them, and so pay eye-watering shipping costs? And in the time to come, wiill we even be able to buy any at all?
 

leonardw

Starting to Get Obsessed
Dec 30, 2011
172
352
I just find it wild that 507C isnt just an uncased Orlik Golden Slices rather than the same thing as LNF.

That was what I was wondering as well! If 507C and Luxury Navy Flake are the same blend, does that mean that 507C isn't a pure Virginia and there is a little Perique in it, or does it mean that Luxury Navy Flake isn't a VaPer and is actually a pure Virginia? Either way I'd sure love to know!
LNF absolutely contains perique.
 

leonardw

Starting to Get Obsessed
Dec 30, 2011
172
352
I'm also very interested in hearing more about 507c =LNF being they are marketed with and without perique. Maybe same as Luxury twist Flake?

Also is it true the old Dunhill now peterson blends are in sales decline and being looked at?

Thanks!
The Peterson blends are doing quite well actually, and nothing is being discontinued there. The U.S. is the biggest market for the brand, but it's also sold in 30+ other countries,
 

leonardw

Starting to Get Obsessed
Dec 30, 2011
172
352
Leonard, I would like to echo the thanks of those here who have already done so, for the time and trouble you've been taking to clarify the situation and offer a cautious prognisis for the future, to the best of your knowlege and ability. However, your comments thus seem to have (understandably) related solely to the US market: what about us Brits?

We may be a small minority here, but we are customers nonetheless. What about the HH range of MacBaren's, for example? Why do we have to send over to Germany for them, and so pay eye-watering shipping costs? And in the time to come, wiill we even be able to buy any at all?
So the good news is, nothing from either the the STG or Mac Baren portfolios is being delisted in the UK. As far as why Mac Baren never introduced the HH blends in the UK... I don't have any true insight there. Prior to the acquisition, STG actually distributed in the UK on Mac Baren's behalf. Mac Baren would have dictated the portfolio. I can only assume they didn't see much demand.
 
@leonardw Thank you, whether we all agree with what your company is/will do, you are a shining example of how to sell pipe tobacco. It gives me a lot of incentive to change my mind and support what you guys do.

While, I've got your ear, you need a kick ass strong blend in your line up. Maybe release some rustica blends or some juicy black ropes all gooey with nicotine. Ha ha!
 

Mike N

Part of the Furniture Now
Aug 3, 2023
526
2,970
Northern Panhandle of West Virginia
Leonard, I also appreciate your coming on to discuss this matter further.

One thing I can’t get my head around is why STG would pay a reported $70 million to buy what appears to be 950 underperforming Sutliff blends and an old factory in the warehouse area of Richmond?

Are the Mac Baren blends that viable and valuable going forward?

Also, by moving all production out of the US aren’t you concerned about the import tariffs that have been promised for off-shored companies?