Or buy one of the many reasonably priced tobaccos and keep smoking your pipe.
Question for debate
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I think about this every Saturday when I window shop Pipestud. Pre-McClelland, he was setting modest prices, and things sat for a while. A brother of mine, who started smoking a pipe at the same time I did, sent him some tobacco, and they were, as I said, modestly priced and sat for a while. That same tobacco was priced last week, two years later, at $100+ and didn't make it a few minutes on Pipestud's website. Maybe I'm delusional with this, but I feel McClelland closing up shop set the tin market on fire.
www.tobaccoreviews.com
I'm no economics guru, but if I was in a casual conversation about this, my uneducated commentary would be that at first, the market was setting the prices in a more pure sense. Now, like when coopersark was around, Pipestud has built a name for himself. People are one-stop shopping with him and paying whatever he likes. Yes, some tobaccos sit around until the next week and get slapped with a small percentage reduction, but for the most part, whatever price he sets, he gets. The Pipestud name is now worth something, like my coopersark example. Not only is he one of the only stops in town with that kind of inventory, but people are paying 10-100% more from him just for the name. They're sitting around all week, frothing for the next Saturday sale event. My point being: the market is still speaking loudly, but some of this is other than that.
And we can all see how his prices are dictating the market these days. Check just about any tin sales on the groups these days, and the prices are similar, if not higher, than Pipestud's. Not only is he setting prices, the fact that he practically sells out of everything in minutes is creating a frenzy, fear-of-missing-out phenomenon throughout the community. And I don't want anyone to think I'm talking negatively about him, because I absolutely am not. This is how boutique stores in collectible markets work. Nevertheless, I also do admittedly find it unfortunate.
updating via yoast
www.tobaccoreviews.com
I'm no economics guru, but if I was in a casual conversation about this, my uneducated commentary would be that at first, the market was setting the prices in a more pure sense. Now, like when coopersark was around, Pipestud has built a name for himself. People are one-stop shopping with him and paying whatever he likes. Yes, some tobaccos sit around until the next week and get slapped with a small percentage reduction, but for the most part, whatever price he sets, he gets. The Pipestud name is now worth something, like my coopersark example. Not only is he one of the only stops in town with that kind of inventory, but people are paying 10-100% more from him just for the name. They're sitting around all week, frothing for the next Saturday sale event. My point being: the market is still speaking loudly, but some of this is other than that.
And we can all see how his prices are dictating the market these days. Check just about any tin sales on the groups these days, and the prices are similar, if not higher, than Pipestud's. Not only is he setting prices, the fact that he practically sells out of everything in minutes is creating a frenzy, fear-of-missing-out phenomenon throughout the community. And I don't want anyone to think I'm talking negatively about him, because I absolutely am not. This is how boutique stores in collectible markets work. Nevertheless, I also do admittedly find it unfortunate.
This is the same as people selling their 2 year old tins for like $20 over the regular price. And this is tobacco that is still in stock and available year round.
Someone is buying it. I don’t know why, but someone is. A sucker is born everyday.
Someone is buying it. I don’t know why, but someone is. A sucker is born everyday.
I mostly just buy my tobacco and smoke it, leave an occasional tobacco review and 'what are you smoking' photo, and leave market speculation out of it. Anyone who thinks they can't find and smoke Esoterica because Pipestud and 4Noggins is selling it at inflated prices to the Chinese is just too lazy to pick up a phone and call or visit his brick and mortar shops. Anyone who thinks ending "flipping" is going to make unicorn tobaccos appear in their mailbox with the coupons is crazy. Yes it takes above-average effort to find, but everyone I know with the motivation and patience to get it has their cellars well-stocked with their favorites. Like everything else in life, your benefit is commensurate with the effort you exert in securing it.
Rare tobacco, wine, whiskey, coins, postage stamps, etc...
Everybody wants them. Only so much available. Free market, supply and demand.
Dunhills are pricey too.
Networking, being in the right place at the right time can save you some money. Griping about it on an internet forum isn't going to do much. It's not like everybody in the pipe smoking world is going to come together in solidarity to fix prices.
People selling on the secondary market are providing a service. Whether you agree with that or are willing to pay the price of admission has no consequence in the grand scheme of things.
There will always be people who are willing to pay a premium for the ease of acquiring hard to come by items.
Everybody wants them. Only so much available. Free market, supply and demand.
Dunhills are pricey too.
Networking, being in the right place at the right time can save you some money. Griping about it on an internet forum isn't going to do much. It's not like everybody in the pipe smoking world is going to come together in solidarity to fix prices.
People selling on the secondary market are providing a service. Whether you agree with that or are willing to pay the price of admission has no consequence in the grand scheme of things.
There will always be people who are willing to pay a premium for the ease of acquiring hard to come by items.
I don’t think that’s accurate. His prices were behind the curve for quite a while after tin bids came along. Up until about late 2021 at least, you could still get most blends on his site for under $1 per gram. I almost picked up some 100g mcclelland tins at the time for $75 ish but decided to spend my money on current production stuff at retail rates instead.I think about this every Saturday when I window shop Pipestud. Pre-McClelland, he was setting modest prices, and things sat for a while. A brother of mine, who started smoking a pipe at the same time I did, sent him some tobacco, and they were, as I said, modestly priced and sat for a while. That same tobacco was priced last week, two years later, at $100+ and didn't make it a few minutes on Pipestud's website. Maybe I'm delusional with this, but I feel McClelland closing up shop set the tin market on fire.
updating via yoast
I'm no economics guru, but if I was in a casual conversation about this, my uneducated commentary would be that at first, the market was setting the prices in a more pure sense. Now, like when coopersark was around, Pipestud has built a name for himself. People are one-stop shopping with him and paying whatever he likes. Yes, some tobaccos sit around until the next week and get slapped with a small percentage reduction, but for the most part, whatever price he sets, he gets. The Pipestud name is now worth something, like my coopersark example. Not only is he one of the only stops in town with that kind of inventory, but people are paying 10-100% more from him just for the name. They're sitting around all week, frothing for the next Saturday sale event. My point being: the market is still speaking loudly, but some of this is other than that.
And we can all see how his prices are dictating the market these days. Check just about any tin sales on the groups these days, and the prices are similar, if not higher, than Pipestud's. Not only is he setting prices, the fact that he practically sells out of everything in minutes is creating a frenzy, fear-of-missing-out phenomenon throughout the community. And I don't want anyone to think I'm talking negatively about him, because I absolutely am not. This is how boutique stores in collectible markets work. Nevertheless, I also do admittedly find it unfortunate.
The boom has really been in the past year or so. I’d argue tin bids is what really launched the rocket as it showed what the market would truly hold at auction.
In answer to the OP's question, of course it's the buyers who made this situation. In general, buyers control the market, not sellers. If a seller sets an unrealistically hight price, buyers can choose to take a pass. Look at what's been happening with the real estate market. Prices exploded while money was free and buyers were desperate. Now prices are coming down because money isn't free and buyers are being a lot more thoughtful. It's still a very tight market, but more and more people are walking away from it.
“Since I don't care about Esoterica, this has nothing to do with me. I can tell you of a certain circumstance.
Back in the 80's my General sales manager would make me(sales manager) order all the cars and trucks. He knew I did it better than him. We always ran with at least 500 cars and trucks on the lot and some were such piss poor sellers that factory blackmailed us into buying some if we wanted other things. I haf a big truck department and ordered lots of plow trucks, dump trucks, wracks and cubes.
If I wanted the best colors of the Dodge Caravans I had to eat shit. Shit to any Dodge dealers are cream colored Dodge Aries which were hideous. There was another car but I forget what it was. I told my salesman who had to wait on these pukes go up stairs, pull the invoice, tell the customer he could have it for dead cost and had to do it in 15 minutes as time was money. There was only 500.00 worth of markup in an Aries so fighting back and forth for an hour over a few hundred bucks was a waste of time. I could sell a plow truck and make 2-4 grand.
This is the business world, it happens in many of them, the jewelry industry was one of the worst offenders.”
…“When I built my cellar in 2012-2013 most of my bulk tobacco came from small mom and pops with little to no internet presence. They were happy to sell me 5 pounds plus of Samuel Gawith Best Brown, Full Virginia and St James flakes. I even got discounts on the 5 pound lots. I searched all the mom and pops in the low tax states and made out quite well. I had one guy sell me 12 bags of Esoterica Stonehaven at 35.00 a bag. These places still exist if you want to do the work”
…”Pollyanna speaking here. My 9-10 dollar tins are all 30-50% higher than they were in 2012. My pounds of bulk Samuel Gawith flakes cost me 52-55 a pound, not a half a pound like it is now.
My bags of Esoterica Stonehaven are all 35.00 for an 8oz bag. My Mac Baren Old Dark Fired I paid either 9.99 or 10.99 for a 3.5 oz tin and now they are 22.95 for a 3.5 ounce tin. Discontinued blends that I loaded up on were Rotary Navy Cut, Brigham Klondike Gold, Orlik Dark Strong Kentucky, Butera Dark Stoved.
States no longer letting tobacco shipped into their borders is a thing. excise taxes on pipe tobacco keep going up. dealers are now expected to collect some of these taxes. I am going to give one I told you so and then shut my pipe hole.”
Back in the 80's my General sales manager would make me(sales manager) order all the cars and trucks. He knew I did it better than him. We always ran with at least 500 cars and trucks on the lot and some were such piss poor sellers that factory blackmailed us into buying some if we wanted other things. I haf a big truck department and ordered lots of plow trucks, dump trucks, wracks and cubes.
If I wanted the best colors of the Dodge Caravans I had to eat shit. Shit to any Dodge dealers are cream colored Dodge Aries which were hideous. There was another car but I forget what it was. I told my salesman who had to wait on these pukes go up stairs, pull the invoice, tell the customer he could have it for dead cost and had to do it in 15 minutes as time was money. There was only 500.00 worth of markup in an Aries so fighting back and forth for an hour over a few hundred bucks was a waste of time. I could sell a plow truck and make 2-4 grand.
This is the business world, it happens in many of them, the jewelry industry was one of the worst offenders.”
…“When I built my cellar in 2012-2013 most of my bulk tobacco came from small mom and pops with little to no internet presence. They were happy to sell me 5 pounds plus of Samuel Gawith Best Brown, Full Virginia and St James flakes. I even got discounts on the 5 pound lots. I searched all the mom and pops in the low tax states and made out quite well. I had one guy sell me 12 bags of Esoterica Stonehaven at 35.00 a bag. These places still exist if you want to do the work”
…”Pollyanna speaking here. My 9-10 dollar tins are all 30-50% higher than they were in 2012. My pounds of bulk Samuel Gawith flakes cost me 52-55 a pound, not a half a pound like it is now.
My bags of Esoterica Stonehaven are all 35.00 for an 8oz bag. My Mac Baren Old Dark Fired I paid either 9.99 or 10.99 for a 3.5 oz tin and now they are 22.95 for a 3.5 ounce tin. Discontinued blends that I loaded up on were Rotary Navy Cut, Brigham Klondike Gold, Orlik Dark Strong Kentucky, Butera Dark Stoved.
States no longer letting tobacco shipped into their borders is a thing. excise taxes on pipe tobacco keep going up. dealers are now expected to collect some of these taxes. I am going to give one I told you so and then shut my pipe hole.”
To be clear, when we talk about "market setting the price," we're talking mainly about speed of sale. A seller gets nervous when his stock sits long. He is motivated quickly to adjust dynamics (such as price) until the gears start moving.
But this works the other way, as well. When stock sells within minutes, he's got three options:
(1) Change nothing (this would be foolish)
(2) Acquire much more stock to keep things flowing (impossible in the case of rare tobaccos)
(3) Increase prices until speed of sale finds a reasonable equilibrium
As for the option of keeping prices low out of love for the poor fellow who wants to try rare tobaccos too ... well, then the seller has to face the reality that his stock stands as much chance of being gobbled up by the rich as by the poor. Maybe he's happy to give the poor guy a break, but he's not happy to give the rich guy a break, and he has no way of filtering customers by income level when setting prices.
So it is what it is.
But to shift gears, many commenters here are on a healthier track:
Adjust your expectations and be content with what is attainable to you.
A $100 tobacco will not taste 10x better than a $10 tobacco.
This holds true in whiskey, wine, almost anything.
In an affluent society, price increases exponentially with respect to real value.
Something that is 5% better could be 500% more expensive.
You don't have to be a slave to that game.
Did you get into pipe smoking to chase the world's rarest tobaccos? Was that a goal when you bought your first pipe?
At what point did your motives begin to shift? At what point did your desire shift from enjoying good tobacco to coveting the greatest tobacco?
How did that happen? Who influenced you? Did you realize that your focus was shifting? Do you want to continue on that path, or do you want to get back to the vision of pipe smoking you had at the beginning?
There are tobaccos that can be had for under $2.50 an ounce (if bought by the pound) that are 90% as good as tobaccos that are going for $35 - $135 an ounce.
At that price difference, 90% as good is 100% good enough for me.
But this works the other way, as well. When stock sells within minutes, he's got three options:
(1) Change nothing (this would be foolish)
(2) Acquire much more stock to keep things flowing (impossible in the case of rare tobaccos)
(3) Increase prices until speed of sale finds a reasonable equilibrium
As for the option of keeping prices low out of love for the poor fellow who wants to try rare tobaccos too ... well, then the seller has to face the reality that his stock stands as much chance of being gobbled up by the rich as by the poor. Maybe he's happy to give the poor guy a break, but he's not happy to give the rich guy a break, and he has no way of filtering customers by income level when setting prices.
So it is what it is.
But to shift gears, many commenters here are on a healthier track:
Adjust your expectations and be content with what is attainable to you.
A $100 tobacco will not taste 10x better than a $10 tobacco.
This holds true in whiskey, wine, almost anything.
In an affluent society, price increases exponentially with respect to real value.
Something that is 5% better could be 500% more expensive.
You don't have to be a slave to that game.
Did you get into pipe smoking to chase the world's rarest tobaccos? Was that a goal when you bought your first pipe?
At what point did your motives begin to shift? At what point did your desire shift from enjoying good tobacco to coveting the greatest tobacco?
How did that happen? Who influenced you? Did you realize that your focus was shifting? Do you want to continue on that path, or do you want to get back to the vision of pipe smoking you had at the beginning?
There are tobaccos that can be had for under $2.50 an ounce (if bought by the pound) that are 90% as good as tobaccos that are going for $35 - $135 an ounce.
At that price difference, 90% as good is 100% good enough for me.
Needing, wanting, and being greedy, when it comes to money, everyone certainly has a different perspectives on these three.
I can certainly feel for my fellow pipe smoker who is in need and has found a way to make a buck to help out in rough times, but, being greedy, when you have no need for money, and simply wish to hoard more, how should we feel about this.
Sure, everyone is entitled to do whatever they wish, but, don’t we believe when people jack up the market ridiculously, this puts it in a bad light/blemish.
I think this really makes a part of the pipe world look really sad, especially for those that aren’t rich, and simply want to smoke some of these blends.
Don’t we ever look at this, like, Holy Crap, you’re going to need to have a serious profession and serious income in order to smoke nice pipes and tobacco, just sad.
I saw these posts on Pipestud’s, now if this person(s) is in real need, then so be it, but if this is just greed, really sad. But how are we to ever know the plight of the person selling, but as some may consider saying, does it really matter.
hmm
$210 for 2022 bags! WOW
I can certainly feel for my fellow pipe smoker who is in need and has found a way to make a buck to help out in rough times, but, being greedy, when you have no need for money, and simply wish to hoard more, how should we feel about this.
Sure, everyone is entitled to do whatever they wish, but, don’t we believe when people jack up the market ridiculously, this puts it in a bad light/blemish.
I think this really makes a part of the pipe world look really sad, especially for those that aren’t rich, and simply want to smoke some of these blends.
Don’t we ever look at this, like, Holy Crap, you’re going to need to have a serious profession and serious income in order to smoke nice pipes and tobacco, just sad.
I saw these posts on Pipestud’s, now if this person(s) is in real need, then so be it, but if this is just greed, really sad. But how are we to ever know the plight of the person selling, but as some may consider saying, does it really matter.
hmm
$210 for 2022 bags! WOW
The market sets the prices, not the seller. Why would the seller price the products any lower when they sell instantly at the price they set? Let them shut there for a week and watch the prices come down. But that's not the case.
People can have enough money. But, many people can't have too many monies. The pipe world has, most likely, the same, much varied population, as the none smoking world. Pipes do not define people. Your, so-called, 'pipe world" is simply made up of people, nothing special. To think so is extremely naive I think.
Buyers determine value, sellers only set a price. Sometimes with a lot of wishful thinking and not much reality. If some wish to pay a higher price, what's the harm? They customer gets what he wants at a price he's willing to pay. Prices paid should of no real concern to interested third parties except when setting a price or determining if they wish to pay such a price. If one can't afford to buy, that's the customer's problem. If a price is too high to attract the buyer, the seller, if he really wishes, must lower the price. Simply as that really. Wannabe buyers? They need to find the cash.
I simply do no understand people wasting emotion over things which are really not their business and beyond their control, no matter how such frustrates them.
Buyers determine value, sellers only set a price. Sometimes with a lot of wishful thinking and not much reality. If some wish to pay a higher price, what's the harm? They customer gets what he wants at a price he's willing to pay. Prices paid should of no real concern to interested third parties except when setting a price or determining if they wish to pay such a price. If one can't afford to buy, that's the customer's problem. If a price is too high to attract the buyer, the seller, if he really wishes, must lower the price. Simply as that really. Wannabe buyers? They need to find the cash.
I simply do no understand people wasting emotion over things which are really not their business and beyond their control, no matter how such frustrates them.
A seller, who controls a market, can indeed set the price. Such has happened many times over the centuriess. , Steel, coke, railroad fees, the price of grain.meat and such have often been totally controlled by owners. Not a good thing nor, necessarily a bad occurrance, depending on the goal of the people who have a corner on some market. Usually not good for the general population though. Sometimes though, such cornering stimulates economic growth and may create the stimulus to improve manufacturing methods (improved/newly invented production tools, improved marketing, etc.) TMI I'm sure. My apologies.
Yes, somewhat. Thanks. Still, there are many here who feel a pipe defines them and others. A sad reflection on themselves to limit so.
No, I didn’t mean as to define anyone, or anything.
I just simply meant the professional like SPC and other businesses involved in pipes, and then the pipe smokers.
So basically anyone into pipes; The Pipe World
Oh and of course all the history before us too, because when I think Pipe World, I certainly think about the history too.
So I guess you could say, anything and everything to do with pipes...
I just simply meant the professional like SPC and other businesses involved in pipes, and then the pipe smokers.
So basically anyone into pipes; The Pipe World
Oh and of course all the history before us too, because when I think Pipe World, I certainly think about the history too.
So I guess you could say, anything and everything to do with pipes...
Sure, those prices are crazy. But what if there are few Hollywood actors who just found the love of pipe? Or NBA athletes. I heard they drink US$1,000 bottle of champagne like water, not to mention other vices. There are a lot of millionaires out there. I think most average pipe smokers are frugal, but that doesn't mean there can't be few crazies among us.
I wanna drink Dom and drive Lamborghini's every day...
My station in life doesn't allow that; UNFAIR!!!
Oh well, sucks to be me I guess...
My station in life doesn't allow that; UNFAIR!!!
Oh well, sucks to be me I guess...
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