Question about Glass jars

[STP]

What makes you feel like the jar would not be safe for the long haul?

I have some Sutiff’s Black Cherry going on 3+ years that I recently smoked and it was good-to-go. I guess “long haul” would have to be defined. 1-5 years I think it’ll be OK if sealed tightly. 5, 10... more... IDK. Also, the frequency of exposure, stored environment, etc., would have to be considered. As mentioned, “... science,” would be beneficial, but personal experience is also appreciated.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

Since jars because hard to find I've been storing tobacco in heat sealable, food grade, mylar bags. They're less expensive and take up less room, I guess we'll see how this experiment works out.

 

[STP]

^^^ I’d think that if they’re good for long term emergency food storage, then they’d work for tobacco ?

 

[cosmicfolklore]

I have some Sutiff’s Black Cherry going on 3+ years that I recently smoked and it was good-to-go. I guess “long haul” would have to be defined. 1-5 years I think it’ll be OK if sealed tightly. 5, 10... more... IDK. Also, the frequency of exposure, stored environment, etc., would have to be considered. As mentioned, “... science,” would be beneficial, but personal experience is also appreciated.
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The problem with personal experience is that two people can have exact opposite experiences, pending a whole bunch of factors. And, when you have a lack of access to those factors... it just becomes bunk.

I just searched for what type of materials are used on the seals for Mason jars. They come with natural rubber, which I would think would be the least favorable material for the long run, since rubber can dry rot within a few years. But, some of the replacement seals on the lids are silicon, some silica (which I don't know the differences). But, in reading through the types of materials, it looks like you can get a hodgepodge of different materials on lids and replacement lids.

Plus, as you read through Mason/Ball jars descriptions... they insist that heat is need to make a seal, and that the rings do not pinch down the lids... which I know, because the company has said repeatedly this very thing on canning websites. They also insist that the lids will start to break down after 18 months.

So, sure, just shoot down these jars in favor of the ones that the company even suggests are not goo for this sort of thing for over 2 years.


Maybe the problem is that some people are trying to store in these clamp lidded jars made of plastic instead of glass? Maybe someone used one with a faulty seal... and the story just gets repeated?

 

[cosmicfolklore]

When asked about long term storage of tobacco and herbs, the Mason company responded...

You can store them in glass jars, but only for your short term supply that you rotate through on a regular basis. You should change the lids every three years.

That puts into question the whole GLP suggesting that we put tins of tobacco into jars thing... for me.
Then when we consider that we don't really know how long those vacuum bags last... what really would be the best way to store for 20-25 years?

I suggest that it's all bullshit. Just use the tins or the jars or whatever jar you have available. Not even Mason Ball will stand behind their product for that long. Has anyone ever even seen tobaccos that had been stored for 20+ years in a jar?

 

[olkofri]

Nope. Even Lane's 1-Q will dry out in there eventually. ?

Been there, done that, had to toss the tobacco afterwards as it was bone dry. Hmm, maybe I shoulda sent it to @jpmcwjr instead? ? ?

 

[anotherbob]

I agree with @burleyboy. It really depends on the quality of the jar. If you use the quality ones that are made for canning food and not the “decorative” ones you find at department stores you should have no problem sir!

another vote for depends on the jar and who made it. I think I'd see what they recommend storing in there. Primarily how much it's sold for long term food storage.

 

[jpmcwjr]

Nope. Even Lane's 1-Q will dry out in there eventually. ?

Been there, done that, had to toss the tobacco afterwards as it was bone dry. Hmm, maybe I shoulda sent it to @jpmcwjr instead? ? ?

Sure, as I have rehydrated a number of blends over time.

At the same time, my smokes are not 'bone dry', but in the range of 55% to 75% depending on the cut, blend and so forth. That's RH @ 70º.

 

[FurCoat]

The problem with personal experience is that two people can have exact opposite experiences, pending a whole bunch of factors. And, when you have a lack of access to those factors... it just becomes bunk.

I just searched for what type of materials are used on the seals for Mason jars. They come with natural rubber, which I would think would be the least favorable material for the long run, since rubber can dry rot within a few years. But, some of the replacement seals on the lids are silicon, some silica (which I don't know the differences). But, in reading through the types of materials, it looks like you can get a hodgepodge of different materials on lids and replacement lids.

Plus, as you read through Mason/Ball jars descriptions... they insist that heat is need to make a seal, and that the rings do not pinch down the lids... which I know, because the company has said repeatedly this very thing on canning websites. They also insist that the lids will start to break down after 18 months.

So, sure, just shoot down these jars in favor of the ones that the company even suggests are not goo for this sort of thing for over 2 years.


Maybe the problem is that some people are trying to store in these clamp lidded jars made of plastic instead of glass? Maybe someone used one with a faulty seal... and the story just gets repeated?

For this reason I have advised heating the lids with a blow dryer to soften the seal on other discussion threads. It doesn't create a vacuum, but it should seal better. The lids on my tobacco jars will not come off without a good bit of pressue. When canning vegetables, I dip the lids in boiling water prior to placing them on the jar. Failures are rare.

 

[Country Bladesmith]

Depends on the jar. Tobacco that isn’t full of PG will dry out in some of those. I can say that as a statement of fact, not speculation.
The only ones I trust are the Fido jars made in Italy. They will keep a seal. The others are often junk for keeping things sealed. I’m sure there are other brands that are good to go, but I haven’t found them yet, and Mason jars are hard to beat.

 

[peregrinus]

Has anyone ever even seen tobaccos that had been stored for 20+ years in a jar?

The answer is, “Yes!”

I recently found I had a pound of Cornell and Diehl # 967P that I jared in 1998 (see notation on lower right corner of label).
I don’t even remember what the hell this is any longer, but I suspect it is a Vaper blend of some sort. I just popped it open and it is still supple and moist. In fact, I would need to let it dry for a time to meet my preferences.
Could be PG Craig added that preserved it this long, I don’t know, but it is in great shape.

 

[burleyboy]

How does a Boveda pack work that this would tell us if it is not airtight? Don't they just release PGs or something?

As I understand, they release H2O. Actually all we‘d need for this experiment would be jars of the same volume, filled with the same amount of water or some substance that releases water. And then one would have to measure by weighing how much of the moisture evaporated over time.

 

[anotherbob]

Depends on the jar. Tobacco that isn’t full of PG will dry out in some of those. I can say that as a statement of fact, not speculation.
The only ones I trust are the Fido jars made in Italy. They will keep a seal. The others are often junk for keeping things sealed. I’m sure there are other brands that are good to go, but I haven’t found them yet, and Mason jars are hard to beat.

that sums it up perfectly. Those jars are a maybe where mason jars are a for certain will work. And there is no real price difference either.
Oh and I found these ones work great for large amounts.https://www.smokingpipes.com/accessories/pipe%20accessories/moreinfo.cfm?product_id=196003

 

[jpmcwjr]

Bob- The best way to put in a link is to use the link button in the compose window, like so:

Link to the jar is HERE.​

 

[ashdigger]

Here’s my idea. I’ll use both types jars with Capstan Blue I had delivered. I’ll report back in ten years.

 

[bent1]

I just started in on a screw top mason jar of Best Brown Flake From 2007. Moisture content was fine, similar in pliability to new, still had to dry it out when prepping for a bowl.

 

[jvnshr]

I think both the mason jars and the ones with the gaskets are good for long term storage, if left untouched. If you put ribbon cut tobacco into a mason jar and keep it closed for a year (flake needs more time), you will realize that the lid is really tight because a vacuum has been created by microbes consuming the oxygen. If you apply some heat into the jar and let it cool after filling it with tobacco and closing the lid, you will speed up the vacuuming process.

 

[gervais]

Since I have been on here, I have watched folks shoot those type of jars down repeatedly. But, really they are sealed with a thicker layer of silicone than a Mason jar. Plus, there is actually tension on the seal by way of the mechanics; whereas, the Mason jars rely on the tobacco sucking up the oxygen in the jar to pull the lid down tight (or by vacuum of heating the jars or pressure cooker). The ring does not apply pressure to the seal.
I would think the seal would break down faster if you were continually opening and closing the jar, but if you just close it for the long haul that seal would most likely last longer than a Mason jar.

I am pretty sure you can also order new seals for that type of jar also.

So, to go against the flow, I give it my "Cosmic" seal of approval.

You are very wrong about the ring not applying pressure to the seal. Grab an unused, fresh lid and put in on a jar. Now tighten it with the ring. Take it back off and look at the gasket. You'll see the indentation of the glass rim the whole way around

 

[cosmicfolklore]

You are very wrong about the ring not applying pressure to the seal. Grab an unused, fresh lid and put in on a jar. Now tighten it with the ring. Take it back off and look at the gasket. You'll see the indentation of the glass rim the whole way around

Nope, not wrong. And, the company that makes them has stated such over and over. There is not much pressure applied because it has to be able to allow for air to pass while under pressure in canning. The company recommends the one piece lids for storing things not canned under pressure. This is why they sell those lids.
I've had whole tomatoes pass through a two piece lid at just 15 lbs of pressure, without any affect on the lid.

Hell, Mason/Ball doesn't even recommend using their jars for tobacco. So...

But, I get a chuckle at watching newbies squeeze tighten a ring on a jar thinking they are tightening the lid, ha ha. Soooo, do what you want.

 

[gervais]

Nope, not wrong. And, the company that makes them has stated such over and over. There is not much pressure applied because it has to be able to allow for air to pass while under pressure in canning. The company recommends the one piece lids for storing things not canned under pressure. This is why they sell those lids.
I've had whole tomatoes pass through a two piece lid at just 15 lbs of pressure, without any affect on the lid.

Hell, Mason/Ball doesn't even recommend using their jars for tobacco. So...

But, I get a chuckle at watching newbies squeeze tighten a ring on a jar thinking they are tightening the lid, ha ha. Soooo, do what you want.

I look at the visual evidence, not the manufacturers claim they make up just to cover their asses if there is a failure with their product. But like everything, that's just my opinion....even though I see the proof with my own eyes! ?