Quality Of Dagner Pipes
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He's always stated that they're made in a factory in Italy.
As for having their name on things I don't find that annoying. I'm a huge Peterson fan. If Peterson came out with t-shirts and hats and shot glasses I'd be buying those because I love the brand.
These guys are marketing machines, for sure!
To see the buzz they created in Chicago... You almost needed a crowbar to pry your way up to their table.
If I had their marketing chops, I would be a bazillionaire by now!
A new and interesting phenomenon that I encountered at the Chicago show this year was running into a few folks who were more interested in acquiring pipe related t-shirts and headwear, than they were in collecting pipes...
:
I would suggest that all these guys are ripping off Blackbeard the Pirate. Seriously though, the use of a skull in a logo is hardly something new or novel. I am with the Dagners on this one.
Peck sir, that is a direct copy of a classic piece of art from my youth. I am afraid you are incorrect on this one, anyone familiar with the original work can see it is a direct copy with a small change done in photoshop or illustrator. Imagine if someone could take from you the fruits of your law skills without compensation. When the line work is identical, you are stealing something someone worked their whole life to create. Becoming one of the best and most celebrated artists in a field does not happen over night. I was a clothing production manager and worked with many of these artists who worked this field and they suffer these insults both personally and financially too often. Theft is theft, the Dagners used that image because of how iconic it is, not in ignorance of that fact. If it is nothing to create an image then it would be nothing for them to have created their own but that is not the case here and anyone familiar with P&P would be instantly aware of it.
Well I am confused then Daimyo. The only logo shown here was the one bonehed linked to above, and I am sorry, but don't see the similarity other than a skull.
The skull is identical, the ripped fabric is identical, the hands (shape, exact outlines, proportions and shading) are identical. They didn't even bother changing the signature eyes. They have simply added the hat, pipe and goatee to an existing piece of very well known art. Possibly one of the most iconic in the entire history of skateboarding. This isn't some classic work to which no one owns the rights, it is an active design of an existing business.
http://dagnerpipes.com/product/captain-shirt/
http://dagnerpipes.com/product/captain-shirt/
That does look similar Daimyo. I had not seen that logo. I thought this was their logo:
In any event, if this company has registered this trademark (and if the Dagners do not have permission to use it) then they should seek legal recourse. That really is none of our business (or at least none of mine).
In any event, if this company has registered this trademark (and if the Dagners do not have permission to use it) then they should seek legal recourse. That really is none of our business (or at least none of mine).
Rip the Ripper is indeed an iconic graphic, but what Dagner is doing is an homage - there were modifications to the original design --- in fact, 'ol Rip has been copied, spoofed, and parodied so widespread that a quick google search will ooze mucho results...
...P/P even invited artists to interpret it and made a book about it...
http://powell-peralta.com/rip-the-ripper-book-hardcover
P/P may have started off as a homegrown company, but they grew into an arrogant behemoth over time, so much so that in the early 90's they were ridiculing the smaller companies that were starting to sprout up,
the infamous Powell vs. Blind ads were pretty funny though...
I'm with Gonzo,
who,
in this case,
is Dagner!
:P
...P/P even invited artists to interpret it and made a book about it...
http://powell-peralta.com/rip-the-ripper-book-hardcover
P/P may have started off as a homegrown company, but they grew into an arrogant behemoth over time, so much so that in the early 90's they were ridiculing the smaller companies that were starting to sprout up,
the infamous Powell vs. Blind ads were pretty funny though...
I'm with Gonzo,
who,
in this case,
is Dagner!
:P
You are not profiting from the use of his photo Peck. Misterlowercase this is not a homage, if you like I can link at least 50 respectful artists who did actual homages. A homage would be to hire a competent artist to use the original as the basis for a similar design. They did not do that, they simply added poor graphics on top using a computer. Sadly you are correct that this is likely enough to keep P&P from legal recourse or at least successful legal recourse. Theft is theft and despite what anyone thinks about what P&P became, they deserve to own their intellectual property. Sadly our courts are not set up to protect artists and graphic designers. Simply stealing art and adding some crap to it is often enough to avoid anything beyond a cease and desist. Vernon Courtlandt Johnson is the real looser because unlike companies such as the Dagners, P&P did pay him for the art work. Again, theft is theft no matter how common the practice or actionable the theft.
Are you kidding, a Pecker is the only thing I'll stick in my mouth!
As an aside, having worked in the clothing industry I am sensitive to the theft that has become prevalent in the industry. It is truly the ground level artist that suffers and even highly successful ones have trouble protecting their work. Sadly, millions who benefit from being surrounded by amazing art have come to take it for granted and not many people care about artists receiving their due for their lives work. I will end my rant now.
As an aside, having worked in the clothing industry I am sensitive to the theft that has become prevalent in the industry. It is truly the ground level artist that suffers and even highly successful ones have trouble protecting their work. Sadly, millions who benefit from being surrounded by amazing art have come to take it for granted and not many people care about artists receiving their due for their lives work. I will end my rant now.
Regardless, the skull motif is so played out. In this context it seems contrived and stilted. They are just too cool. Dagner "skull" pipes sounds like something from an inbred reality show. In the end, if it adds to the ranks of pipe smokers we all potentially benefit. At to quote Don King again, Only in America.
Welcome to the 21st century --- appropriation in the arts is nearly mandatory nowadays. Copying has always been a large part of the artists toolkit anyway, after another, swipe files are very large and always have been.
One of the most interesting monographs on this topic is called Deconstructing Roy Lichtenstein where the original comic art panel is positioned next to the "fine high art painting":
http://davidbarsalou.homestead.com/lichtensteinproject.html
Like it or not, we live in a remix culture, and that fact should be obvious to anyone who is culturally attentive.
Just because I am aware of something doesn't mean I like theft. I have a lot more respect for someone like Ron English and the like, who would have actually repainted the art instead of cheap and lazy theft plus Photoshop, while actually adding some artistic message. Popular does not equate to quality or ethics. I was in this field and there is still a difference between inspiration and theft. Of course theft is easier and you don't have to pay a new artist or the original one.
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