Possible Shill Bidding on Tinbids?

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TheWhale13

Part of the Furniture Now
Aug 12, 2021
803
3,421
Sweden
Who cares about the rules? If a business or website is shady (and sponsoring) then there is only a stronger reason to talk about suspicious activities. Still, tinbids can't be a very large website, and they probably need the sponsorship more than this forum needs their money.
 
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sablebrush52

The Bard Of Barlings
Jun 15, 2013
19,986
46,138
Southern Oregon
jrs457.wixsite.com
Who cares about the rules? If a business or website is shady (and sponsoring) then there is only a stronger reason to talk about suspicious activities. Still, tinbids can't be a very large website, and they probably need the sponsorship more than this forum needs their money.
There's no evidence that the business is shady, just speculation that there are shills, and no proof of that.
People can post whatever price they want. Nobody is being forced to pay those prices, it's a choice. Even if some of the people selling did use shills, nobody is forcing anyone to counterbid them. That's still a choice.

It's not a choice I would make because vintage and unicorn tobacco isn't important enough to me to spend hundreds of dollars for a couple of ounces of burnable weed of dubious prevenance, but I have dropped thousands of dollars on a camera and lenses and a lot of people would consider that nuts. Different strokes for different folks
 
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There's no evidence that the business is shady, just speculation that there are shills, and no proof of that.
People can post whatever price they want. Nobody is being forced to pay those prices, it's a choice. Even if some of the people selling did use shills, nobody is forcing anyone to counterbid them. That's still a choice.

It's not a choice I would make because vintage and unicorn tobacco isn't important enough to me to spend hundreds of dollars for a couple of ounces of burnable weed of dubious prevenance,
I think that this sums up what everyone came to say, except we had more fun doing it as a group, ha ha. puffy
 

greeneyes

Lifer
Jun 5, 2018
2,181
12,336
If I were to sell an item at auction and the item didn't sell for the amount I wanted, I have two options. I can keep re-listing it for the same amount and hope that someone comes along that wants to buy it.

Or, I can re-list the auction for the highest bid price that was reached at the earlier auction, in the hopes that whoever bid highest still wants the item, and I can at least sell the item (albeit for less than I originally wanted).

I'm not sure if this qualifies as shill bidding. From a seller's perspective it sounds like common sense. It's fairly common to calibrate prices based on demand. I often tell my wife, when she's posting items on ... wherever she posts them ... is she pricing at her perceived value? Or pricing to sell?

In any case, an auction, almost by definition, isn't a marketplace where you go to expect "bro pricing".

I would recommend the OP post a 'want to buy' thread in the pipe forums where pricing tends to follow perceived community norms more closely than an auction site that favors "top" over "fair" pricing. I intentionally put "fair" in quotation marks because we're talking about money.
 

Puffaluffaguss

Part of the Furniture Now
Jul 30, 2021
689
2,182
32
The City Different
What has been overlooked is, for the most part, a site sponsor has been trashed in this thread based purely on speculation. I haven't used Tinbids myself to either by or sell. But it seems like a great concept for all of us who buy and sell pipe and tobacco products.
Nobody has trashed the site itself, in which I think the site is a necessity. But it's just like talking about quality of tobacco or miss drilled pipes or whatever. It's a "conversation" that is leaning towards what the OP was ment for. A discussion about weather or not this is a common occurrence or I'm just tripping, either way it's a convo nothing more. The site itself is great but as I stated earlier, people use sooooo there us bound to be a bad apple or 2.
 

Puffaluffaguss

Part of the Furniture Now
Jul 30, 2021
689
2,182
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The City Different
In case someone asks

"12. Complaints About a Service / Product / Maker / Brand

Publicly posting a complaint about any service, product, maker, or brand is only allowed AFTER you have contacted them directly with the issue, and given them 36 hours to respond, and another 24 hours to resolve the isuue.

We DO NOT ALLOW posts like this:

"I am unhappy with this pipe I just bought because of....... How in the heck could they even sell this thing... blah blah blah. Should I call them and complain? Should I return it?"

Yes. You should contact them before making a post about it, and you should only post about it if it is unresolved."
Completely different conversation, if someone's first option is to trash somebody or something on a forum before contacting the person or business first is just dumb. I'm sure it's happened before but that's not what this is. How many times have I seen people trash dunhill or hell what about the crap @briarlee puts up with. Even is somebody doesn't agree with the convo it shouldn't mean getting upset at the conversation being had.
 
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Don_Muertos

Starting to Get Obsessed
Feb 1, 2023
103
230
Nicaragua
Civilization ended where the iPhone began. Now were watching the decline of society under the guise that civility still exists. The amount of things that are recycled old-tech, or simply refaced versions of identical products in combination with shilling further centralizes wealth. And a lot of folks still think we're getting a square deal. And that's why I'm hiding out in NM. Huxley spelled it out.
 

Puffaluffaguss

Part of the Furniture Now
Jul 30, 2021
689
2,182
32
The City Different
If I were to sell an item at auction and the item didn't sell for the amount I wanted, I have two options. I can keep re-listing it for the same amount and hope that someone comes along that wants to buy it.

Or, I can re-list the auction for the highest bid price that was reached at the earlier auction, in the hopes that whoever bid highest still wants the item, and I can at least sell the item (albeit for less than I originally wanted).

I'm not sure if this qualifies as shill bidding. From a seller's perspective it sounds like common sense. It's fairly common to calibrate prices based on demand. I often tell my wife, when she's posting items on ... wherever she posts them ... is she pricing at her perceived value? Or pricing to sell?

In any case, an auction, almost by definition, isn't a marketplace where you go to expect "bro pricing".

I would recommend the OP post a 'want to buy' thread in the pipe forums where pricing tends to follow perceived community norms more closely than an auction site that favors "top" over "fair" pricing. I intentionally put "fair" in quotation marks because we're talking about money.
What you stated is only part of what I've noticed, which is not the issue that has me wondering if anybody else has noticed. But also the fact that it may or may not be the individual selling an item also bidding on the item they are selling with a separate account. The only way to find that out is the same way ebay finds out. Which is too complicated for me to explain but it's possible I assume. Then again tinbids isn't even a blip on the ebay scale of things so who knows. Just something I was wondering.
 

craig61a

Lifer
Apr 29, 2017
5,938
49,744
Minnesota USA
I've seen this a number of times on eBay as well. I attribute it to the sellers' absolute belief that they're right coupled with a stubborn streak. I've known people like that. Their world view is set in concrete and they have a host of mental defenses justifying it against all evidence or logic.

So, did anyone offer up actual evidence of shilling on this thread, or just speculation?
The Great Tinbids Caper…
 

Puffaluffaguss

Part of the Furniture Now
Jul 30, 2021
689
2,182
32
The City Different
There's no evidence that the business is shady, just speculation that there are shills, and no proof of that.
People can post whatever price they want. Nobody is being forced to pay those prices, it's a choice. Even if some of the people selling did use shills, nobody is forcing anyone to counterbid them. That's still a choice.

It's not a choice I would make because vintage and unicorn tobacco isn't important enough to me to spend hundreds of dollars for a couple of ounces of burnable weed of dubious prevenance, but I have dropped thousands of dollars on a camera and lenses and a lot of people would consider that nuts. Different strokes for different folks
And that sir was the point of this. I gave it my shot noticed some weird things and thought I'd share what i found, in hopes it will help somebody else some day. If your wealthy and have mad cash to spend like some people on there obviously then by all means buy the whole site. But if your a person like me who is willing to pay a bit more for something I've been wanting to try every now and then its ok but you gotta be smart about it.
 
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AJL67

Lifer
May 26, 2022
5,213
26,963
Florida - Space Coast
I honestly haven’t paid that much attention. I did bid on one auction I didn’t win, but was concerned about getting more involved when I realized you have no idea who the sellers are or what their satisfaction rating might be. Maybe eBay spoiled me…

I also hate auctions with unstated Reserves and won’t participate in them.
Just so you know they have a one strike rule, you eff up and you are out, unless maybe its a 1 time thing and you've had a bunch of good auctions, I'm sure you get to plead your case, and for bidders if they don't pay they get banned. I had a guy in Cali not pay, they banned him, simple as that.
 

Puffaluffaguss

Part of the Furniture Now
Jul 30, 2021
689
2,182
32
The City Different
Obviously the people operating this website, or they wouldn’t have enumerated them in the rules section. That’s why they are called rules and not suggestions.

Feel free to go off and start your own site without rules.
I think it twas a joke.

History lesson time:

Back when there were kingdom's and empires even back to early native american tribes, a jester or joker was one of the most important people in said society. If you can't make jokes or criticize about something then it's not really an issue, But if you can make fun of it then it is an important part of life. My explanation isn't very good but believe me O'l Google will help better then I can.
 
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Puffaluffaguss

Part of the Furniture Now
Jul 30, 2021
689
2,182
32
The City Different
Just so you know they have a one strike rule, you eff up and you are out, unless maybe its a 1 time thing and you've had a bunch of good auctions, I'm sure you get to plead your case, and for bidders if they don't pay they get banned. I had a guy in Cali not pay, they banned him, simple as that.
Thank you for the info its good to know I can agree to an extent. Life happens way to much to straight out ban someone because they bid on something and couldn't pay. 1 time ok 2 times a warning 3rd time ban, I think as an auction site losing 1 customer is worse then losing 1 seller because if they ain't buying nothing is selling, then again if nobody is selling then you can't buy. It's weird situation that is business related. Whoever owns can make whatever rules they want. So that 1 is a wobbler to me 😆
 

Don_Muertos

Starting to Get Obsessed
Feb 1, 2023
103
230
Nicaragua
"Back when there were kingdom's and empires even back to early native american tribes, a jester or joker was one of the most important people in said society. If you can't make jokes or criticize about something then it's not really an issue, But if you can make fun of it then it is an important part of life."

There are a lot of hilarious Pueblo and Athapascan people.
 
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craig61a

Lifer
Apr 29, 2017
5,938
49,744
Minnesota USA
I think it twas a joke.

History lesson time:

Back when there were kingdom's and empires even back to early native american tribes, a jester or joker was one of the most important people in said society. If you can't make jokes or criticize about something then it's not really an issue, But if you can make fun of it then it is an important part of life. My explanation isn't very good but believe me O'l Google will help better then I can.
Yeah, and every village had an idiot back then...
 
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Don_Muertos

Starting to Get Obsessed
Feb 1, 2023
103
230
Nicaragua
The only reason I go to that site is to see the brands I've never heard of before. Though the prices seem to jump from next to nothing to oh my freaking sweet jeebus levels in no time at all.
Like most things tobacco hobbyist, there's the abstract art dynamic. Rich people don't really like Jackson Pollock, but they will pay out the ass for it just to own it so they may pretend that they understand some subtlety that poor pleebs don't. It's the same with alcohol collecting, briar pipe collecting and "finer" tobaccos. A $6 ounce smokes just as well in a $8 cob when processed correctly as an $80 ounce in a $600 briar. Rich people add feigned value to universally appreciated habits to keep it "classy"
 
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