Pipe Mud and Pipe Cement (WARNING: GIANT POST)

[yaddy306]

(bump)

Any new thoughts on pipe cement (from wood ash) vs. pipe mud (from tobacco ash)?
Roth seems to warn against wood ash, but never said why.
Some have concerns over toxicity, and I can see that if it's from a wood like cedar or teak.

Is the Imperial Stove and Fireplace Cement & Mortar toxic?
Just want to fill in the bottom of my MM cobs.

 

[woodsroad]

I just read through this thread, and lo and behold, I happen to have a Wood Ash Generating Machine in operation right now! I'm going to try mudding some cobs later today.
Observation:

I have many buddies that smoke cigars and save their ash for me

Well, a friend is loyal, but a loving friend will save their ash, just for you.

 

[pstlpkr]

This is such a good Thread that I've decided to make it sticky in the Pipe Maintenance and Repair forum.

 

[charlespe]

I did think any actually used ash from pipe tobacco for pipe mud.
Everywhere I have read uses cigar ash.
I would be interested in how cigar ash hold up to the firewood ash. I think this article can be helped http://www.vipcubancigars.com/blog/age-improving-cuban-cigar/
I actually need to use a good amount of pipe mud in one of my pipes to raise the bottom to the airway and I intend to try it out with cigar ash first.

 

[jarit]

Well, the cigar ash/water recipe described by Fred Hanna came first, and that's what I trust and use. OP may have found another way, and good for him. This thread certainly is the first result when googling "pipe mud". Good SEO.
Pipe tobacco ash isn't as fine as cigar ash and doesn't work as well, IMO. I've tried.

 

[redbeard]

I can not see the pics, seems like I must be the only one...
**EDIT**
Ok, well being two years old could be the problem :lmao: anywayssss... Very informative post. I'm not sure if any of my pipes need to be filled but if I ever see they do I will definitely do a nice experiment for myself.

 

[elduderino]

I love this forum! So many ideas and opinions without harsh ridicule. Just got a Karl Erik Freehand (0) estate from my girlfriend for a 2yr Anniversary present. She's a keeper, the girlfriend too.lol
I got to move the bottom up a 1/4 to the draft-hole. Thinking of using honey, whiskey, and cigar ash mix. My theory is the whiskey and it's alcohol will loosen the honey thus binding more ash. I'm going to make a couple mud balls with this method alongside ash/water mixture and try to compare hardness before applying it to my pipe.

 

[jruthledge]

The idea of using ash from matches has come up a couple of times, so I thought I'd share my little experiment. I cut the heads off of a few dozen wooden matches, because I just wanted burnt wood, not sulfur and whatever else. I burned them all down so that they were all black and had nothing flammable left. I crushed the remains up in a little baby food jar, and then added water until I had a paste to plaster into the bottoms of a couple of my pipes.
After sitting overnight, they both look the same as they did when I left them. I didn't want to mess anything up by touching them before they had a chance to dry, but I checked out a little mud that was left out on the pipe tool I used to apply the mud. It was still damp and not hardened at all. My guess is that burning wood matches this way just doesn't get them hot enough to create the right kind of ash. I also would have created a finer paste with a mortar and pestle, and that might have worked better. But we'll see. I plan on having an update once they've really had a chance to dry.
Anybody else try this? I know rhogg mixed in some match ash, but has anyone else done it with match ash alone?

 

[jruthledge]

Update: This actually ended up working... a little. After one really awful smoke, and another just bad one, this stuff started to harden in the bottom. It did stop the gurgle I was trying to fix and allow me to smoke the whole bowl. If I were to suffer through a half dozen more bowls that tasted like charred nastiness at the end, this might actually work out ok once the cake had built up enough. But instead I picked up a cigar and made myself some tradition style mud. I'll be on the look out for some good wood ash over the summer.
Conclusion, I wouldn't recommend using ash from matches by itself except in the most dire of circumstances.

 

[uncleblackie]

The pipe mud sold by Aristocob works extremely well. At a dollar for two pipes worth of mud, it's a great add on if you're ordering a pipe or two. Much better than fussing with cigars or other potential sources of ash.

 

[pipebender]

Great post, my antique store no-name pipe has some cracks inside the chamber. I just scraped my fireplace and got a few table spoons worth so will try this very shortly.

 

[jruthledge]

Glad to see this massive old thread revived! My experiment with cigar ash didn't work very well. Just didn't seem to dry enough. Wood ash worked much better, but even that has been pretty much scraped out of the bowl now from routine cleaning. I'd like to try the wood ash again because I'm not sure I got it wet enough when I mixed it. Allthis to build up the bottom of the bowl so that it's level with the draft hole and prevents gurgle. When the bottom is build up with mud/cement in works well. (And I'm also thinking of just getting myself a Peterson system and being done with it!)
Let us know how it goes, pipebender.

 

[draco]

Well I read through this entire thread and it's very interesting for sure. Thing is I am sort of a conservative when it comes to what goes in or is used on my pipes. Example I don't use denatured or isopropyl alcohol on or in my pipes. 151 rum and if I can ever get it some Everclear as I can drink those safely...of course cutting the Everclear!!! I have had two instances where I needed or felt the need to alter a bowl by adding substance and have used a form of pipe mud that has so far exceeded my expectations.
First pipe is sort of an Oom Paul/Bent Egg that had the draft hole considerably higher than the bottom of the bowl and it refused to smoke to the bottom. I raised it and it took a fair bit of mud but it now smokes beautifully to the very bottom and the mud is solid and hard...very hard and I think it would take a solid reaming to remove it. I have smoked at least 30 bowls since the alteration and it's solid.
The second is a work in progress that I will report on with photos in the future once it's fate is more clear. I got this pipe from eBay and was not informed of an incipient burnout in the very bottom of the bowl. A dark spot was noted on the outside and I requested info before the auction ended but didn't get my answer until after. The rest of the discription said the pipe was in good condition and solid...it wasn't. I worked it out with the seller after the fact and kept it at a greatly reduced price as I liked the uniqueness of the pipe and other than the impending burnout it is in excellent shape. It was no wonder that the problem developed as the bowl was bored too deep and left At best an 1/8 of an inch of briar at the very bottom of the bowl. The draft hole was high enough to allow a little layer of mud but to be sure I went thicker and the draft hole is now slightly below the new bottom of the chamber. I carefully funneled and leveled it so that it will burn to the bottom and doesn't seem to be prone to pulling in ash...being a 9mm filter pipe helps I am sure. I have since smoked maybe 10 bowls with no sign of further damage outside and with about an 1/8 of an inch of my mud in there I honestly doesn't expect a problem as it has cured hard and solid and tough.
I tested several formulas until I found this one. It sticks better to glass than all the rest and to the briar very well indeed. I had to really work to break it off the glass even in a layer only 1/16 of an inch thick or less. It was noticeably harder than all the others I tested. I used quality cigar ash pulverized down to a fine powder mixed with #2 Dark Amber 100% maple syrup and a small amount of 151 rum. I dampned the bowl slightly with rum after a good cleaning as I learned with brick mortar if you don't wet the brick you get a poor bond. I believe the bit of rum helps the mud seep into the fine pores of the briar for a better bond. Mixed to a thick past that was firm and just at the stage it might flow very slowly and carefully worked into the proper shape with a pipe cleaner in the draft hole to be sure not to clog that. Checked back every half hour for several hours and gently molded and shaped until set. Let dry 24 hours and smoked as usual and as I said so far solid and seems to have stopped the impending burnout in its tracks. All natural stuff and it works. I am happy.

 

[ophiuchus]

Thanks for bumping this thread. Wow ... I referenced the beginning of this very conversation years ago and executed one of the core solutions presented here!
I'd purchased, new, a relatively inexpensive Bjarne Viking Copenhagen Rhodesian from one of the site sponsors listed to the left. When I first received it in the mail, three things stuck me on first inspection: 1) Wow, what a nice looking pipe this was for the price, 2) Wow, what a nice, wide, deep bowl this pipe had, and 3) Aw, dammit! The drilling is too deep, a good 3mm below the draft hole. The wood at the bottom had to be very thin, as well.
I never complained to the vendor (they're totally off the hook as far as this post is concerned; I've bought more from them since); I liked the pipe anyway. I figured between the air-pocked method I usually apply packing and some care while smoking, I might avoid burning through the bottom of the bowl.
I found this topic searching around for fill suggestions before using the pipe. Pipe mud with cigar ash I'd heard of before, but the wood ash premise sounded intriguing. I made some ash mud (cherrywood) and, after sanding out the black bowl coating, more or less sculpted a new bowl bottom to the level of the draft hole, adding 3-4mm thickness to the wood at the bottom.
I'm glad I didn't give up on this pipe. Many good bowls have been smoked, and you can't even tell I did any "work" on it. :mrgreen:

 

[ophiuchus]

(Note to self: Edit for proper nomenclature.)
What I meant to convey, I sculpted a new bottom to the tobacco chamber (inside), not to the bottom of the bowl (which I guess is outside). Sorry ...

 

[Chasing Embers]

Danish airways tend to be a bit above the chamber floor to compensate for moisture buildup.

 

[ophiuchus]

:lol: - Yep. Subsequent purchases and passive information gleaning have taught me this since. Between that and a recent thread here displaying "pipe autopsy" have alleviated concerns about thin wood bottoms (for the most part). My admittedly amateur efforts didn't ruin this particular Rhodesian, and that heel is never burning through.

 

[Chasing Embers]

No doubt there, just be careful scooping out dottle until the patch cakes over.

 

[patbom]

Hi,

Is sandalwood ash okey for pipe cement?

If so we can use "vibhuti" a holy ash people use in India. I'm not kidding by the way.

 

[fluffie666]

I've been experimenting with this pipe cement recipe since the first time I read the post years ago. Patbom, I believe any hardwood would work for the cement. The wood should be burned completely to white ash. I use hickory wood and I dig the ash from the hottest and longest burning part of the fire. I also carefully sift the ash through a screen just in case there are any particals in the ash which were not burned completely. The thing is, whatever wood you decide to use for the ash will impart a taste into the pipe for the first few smokes. The taste of the ash has to be smoked out of the pipe with whatever tobacco you like. Sandlewood might be an aromatic wood. Correct me if I am wrong but I believe I use sandlewood to make incense. If you don't mind the taste of it in your pipe then go for it. Hardwood ash is what you want to make this stuff with.
I like draco's train of thought too. Putting some 151 in the bowl to set this stuff in the briar is a genius idea. I "paint" over my patches in the chamber with some water to get the same results. It helps the cement seep and cure into the briar. The water ratio to ash is a bit tricky to accomplish but I have two cobs from when I first started my experiments with this stuff. I built up the bottoms around the draft holes. In my first attempt, the ratio was spot on. I still smoke out of that cob and the cement never budged. In the second, some of the cement chipped off. The chipped one still smokes like a champ though.
I believe this is a great cement for repairs on your own pipe. As for it being a great, reliable and across-the-board fix, look elsewhere. Each batch you mix is probably going to be different from the last and long lasting results will vary.