Peterson with a Hole!

[The Mitre]

Wow, thanks for that, I agree! First attempt, must get better. Watch out for my next repair using amber!!

 

[greeneyes]

Hi there,

Good point, thanks.

There are only three pipes listed currently that I've restored. One is the later Peterson with a repaired crack, I've changed the text on this, and the other is the earlier Peterson churchwarden. This one I've followed the previous replacement amber button that was broken with anew one, I've changed to text to reflect this.

I will be posting this repair shortly because it shows how you can work amber.

Many thanks for this Peter.

Hi Mitre,

I've found the eBay listing for your repaired, sold 312 Peterson [HERE] and although it was sold back in August there was no mention of the repair.

There are four other listings under your account that mention Peterson--none of them mention "crack" or "repair".

Have I misread?

That having been said, I commend your transparency on the repair of the amber button of the Peterson churchwarden. The starting price is indeed consummate with the rarity of the piece. What I ask myself is whether your repair constitutes a significant "restauration" of the pipe, I hope I convey my meaning: a "there! fixed it! good as new!" solution for a priceless antique pipe is perhaps something better left to the would-be purchaser to undertake to his or her own tastes with a master pipe repairman. As a collector, I would have preferred to examine the pipe and its condition as-is and made a determination about its restauration. In its current condition I can only examine what you, in your best efforts, believed an appropriate mend and substitute to the original to be (and that, without close-up photos of the work, let alone before and after).

Pipes are unique in that they are not just bits of wood. In this case they exist at the juxtaposition of smoking implement and historical artifact. To work with the materials (the briar and the stem-material) it to ought to be done, to my mind, with deference to both their historical value and function.

Many of the world's most serious pipe collectors browse this forum, and we (and I, certainly) are very familiar with your eBay listings. As a courtesy I ask only that you consider that transparency is an important part of your reputation as a seller to the pipe collecting community.

On a somewhat related note, @The Mitre , are you a pipe smoker (or collector) yourself? Or is this endeavor more of a business pursuit? Your enthusiastic eBay listings suggest that you have some passion for pipes, though whether it's a salesman's zeal or something more personal is unclear.

 

[greeneyes]

Wow, thanks for that, I agree! First attempt, must get better. Watch out for my next repair using amber!!

I can't wait to see what wonders you can work with amber!

 

[The Mitre]

Hi Mitre,

I've found the eBay listing for your repaired, sold 312 Peterson [HERE] and although it was sold back in August there was no mention of the repair.

There are four other listings under your account that mention Peterson--none of them mention "crack" or "repair".

Have I misread?

That having been said, I commend your transparency on the repair of the amber button of the Peterson churchwarden. The starting price is indeed consummate with the rarity of the piece. What I ask myself is whether your repair constitutes a significant "restauration" of the pipe, I hope I convey my meaning: a "there! fixed it! good as new!" solution for a priceless antique pipe is perhaps something better left to the would-be purchaser to undertake to his or her own tastes with a master pipe repairman. As a collector, I would have preferred to examine the pipe and its condition as-is and made a determination about its restauration. In its current condition I can only examine what you, in your best efforts, believed an appropriate mend and substitute to the original to be (and that, without close-up photos of the work, let alone before and after).

Pipes are unique in that they are not just bits of wood. In this case they exist at the juxtaposition of smoking implement and historical artifact. To work with the materials (the briar and the stem-material) it to ought to be done, to my mind, with deference to both their historical value and function.

Many of the world's most serious pipe collectors browse this forum, and we (and I, certainly) are very familiar with your eBay listings. As a courtesy I ask only that you consider that transparency is an important part of your reputation as a seller to the pipe collecting community.

On a somewhat related note, @The Mitre , are you a pipe smoker (or collector) yourself? Or is this endeavor more of a business pursuit? Your enthusiastic eBay listings suggest that you have some passion for pipes, though whether it's a salesman's zeal or something more personal is unclear.

Hi there,
Now this IS an interesting debate. Should we talk about "Restoration", "Conservation" or "Preservation"?

Firstly let me give you some background. I left home at 15 and found myself in a wood yard. This was the start of a love affair with timber that has lasted nearly 60 years. I was trained in the various arts associated with making things and could be called a cabinet maker if you so wished. However, as needs must, I diversified and became a "boss" working with large corporations involved in the timber trade. We I got out of this I spent my time helping businesses to start. But I always kept a workshop and returned to the bench in my 50's making and "restoring" fine furniture. And here we come to the nub of the conundrum.

I've had many discussions over the years about defining these three 'ations. My take on it is that to conserve you save the artefact from further degradation that may be caused by, say, light or use. So you halt but don't alter the degradation and then seek ways in which to protect the item for the future. Preservation is slightly different in as far as you may be dealing with factors like fungal or insect attack. In these cases you may need to take drastic action to maintain the integrity of the piece. This might involve replacing parts and treatment to halt the deuteriation of the artefact but still maintaining its usability. When you do this you may, inadvertently, alter the original structure of the piece. Restoration is all the above but a step further in as far as you can you "restore" the item back to it's original condition.

Does this all make sense?

Now to answer another of your questions. Yes, I do operate commercially, I have always done so throughout my working life. But, and there is a but, When I find an object and pick it up, be that a pipe or anything else, I look at it and wonder about it's history, what it's seen or where it's been.

I got involved with pipes through a client in Texas who I helped for many years find in the UK and Europe meerschaums. I'd seek them out at auction, ask if he was interested and buy within agreed parameters. We had a great relationship and both benefited from the arrangement. Of course i had to buy some pipes in the same lot that he didn't want so I stated selling these on eBay. All this came to a halt at the start of 2019 when I was hospitalised after a simple procedure went wrong. I spent the next 18 months or so confined in various hospitals where they tried to kill me several times! But I'm a tough old bas......

Whilst incarcerated my Texas pal was encouraged to buy a ranch by his wife and stop collecting pipes. I didn't know this because communication was difficult. After about 12 months or so of my confinement I managed to start buying again from my hospital bed. When they released me in September last year my wife said they'd humoured me and let me have my head. My study was stacked out with pipes and other bits and pieces I had purchased. I then discovered that a lot of the meerschaums I'd bought in the hope of selling into Texas would not occur. The rest is history and for the last twelve months I've been clearing my study, buying a more varied range of pipes and establishing a network of clients to whom I offer a similar "seek and find" service. Of course I get it wrong sometimes. I buy too many at too much cost and make assumptions that don't work out. Often these pieces will end up on eBay or I put them in specialist auctions.

Yes, when it's necessary in my opinion I will try and restore any breakages or losses that I find. I did think that I always made it clear in the listings that some repairs had been made. Perhaps I've not been clear enough, must try harder.

And yes, I was a smoker until the quacks told me off!

 

[TheIronMonkey]

Hi Mitre,

I've found the eBay listing for your repaired, sold 312 Peterson [HERE] and although it was sold back in August there was no mention of the repair.

There are four other listings under your account that mention Peterson--none of them mention "crack" or "repair".

Have I misread?

That having been said, I commend your transparency on the repair of the amber button of the Peterson churchwarden. The starting price is indeed consummate with the rarity of the piece. What I ask myself is whether your repair constitutes a significant "restauration" of the pipe, I hope I convey my meaning: a "there! fixed it! good as new!" solution for a priceless antique pipe is perhaps something better left to the would-be purchaser to undertake to his or her own tastes with a master pipe repairman. As a collector, I would have preferred to examine the pipe and its condition as-is and made a determination about its restauration. In its current condition I can only examine what you, in your best efforts, believed an appropriate mend and substitute to the original to be (and that, without close-up photos of the work, let alone before and after).

Pipes are unique in that they are not just bits of wood. In this case they exist at the juxtaposition of smoking implement and historical artifact. To work with the materials (the briar and the stem-material) it to ought to be done, to my mind, with deference to both their historical value and function.

Many of the world's most serious pipe collectors browse this forum, and we (and I, certainly) are very familiar with your eBay listings. As a courtesy I ask only that you consider that transparency is an important part of your reputation as a seller to the pipe collecting community.

On a somewhat related note, @The Mitre , are you a pipe smoker (or collector) yourself? Or is this endeavor more of a business pursuit? Your enthusiastic eBay listings suggest that you have some passion for pipes, though whether it's a salesman's zeal or something more personal is unclear.

In the world of rare book collecting, for some collectors, it’s preferable to purchase a book without any “restoration” done. I have seen beautiful, rare, dust jackets crudely retouched with magic markers and described as “restored.” I much prefer “unsophisticated” books, where nothing has been done. I have the choice of doing nothing and preserving it in its unadulterated state, or having it treated by a truly qualified professional.

A historically significant pipe can be marred by irreparably by a poor restoration.

 

[greeneyes]

I've had many discussions over the years about defining these three 'ations. My take on it is that to conserve you save the artefact from further degradation that may be caused by, say, light or use. So you halt but don't alter the degradation and then seek ways in which to protect the item for the future. Preservation is slightly different in as far as you may be dealing with factors like fungal or insect attack. In these cases you may need to take drastic action to maintain the integrity of the piece. This might involve replacing parts and treatment to halt the deuteriation of the artefact but still maintaining its usability. When you do this you may, inadvertently, alter the original structure of the piece. Restoration is all the above but a step further in as far as you can you "restore" the item back to it's original condition.

Does this all make sense?

Ah yes, the 'ations! I know the 'ations, but we're discussing pipes.

I'm not sure how you repaired the crack on the Peterson pipe we reference above (or even which pipe it is), but how, in your opinion, does one fix a cracked pipe?

I understand that you have ample expertise in the woodyard as your moniker The Mitre portends! What I'm suggesting ever-so-humbly is that the repair of pipes is a somewhat paralogous endeavor to woodworking and perhaps altogether divergent in many critical regards.

To repair furniture one must mend what is broken while ensuring that the furniture can yet "furniture," that is, function as what it was intended to function. To repair a valuable antique chest-of-drawers and render it ineffective and unsuitable for its intended function would be a shame and would detract from its value.

How does The Mitre repair a crack on a Peterson pipe, in such a way as to guarantee and vouchsafe its function as a smoking apparatus? Did they teach pipe repair at the woodyard?

Pipe collectors like to know about the existence of cracks, especially repaired ones. Depending on the location of the crack, the flaw may be considered fatal. They like to know that the repairman has experience with these types of repairs. They like to know that surfaces where tobacco will be burning do not inadvertently have chemical residues and epoxies of the type that ought not be exposed to combustion, and that any type of repair will be of the long-lasting variety which is ever-so-necessary for a smoking implement which is constantly cooled and heated. These considerations may be insignificant in the repair of other wooden items which aren't typically used to combust tobacco and therefore it is not a foregone conclusion that your undisclosed repairs have been done in the manner of best practice.

In the world of rare book collecting, for some collectors, it’s preferable to purchase a book without any “restoration” done. I have seen beautiful, rare, dust jackets crudely retouched with magic markers and described as “restored.” I much prefer “unsophisticated” books, where nothing has been done. I have the choice of doing nothing and preserving it in its unadulterated state, or having it treated by a truly qualified professional.

A historically significant pipe can be marred by irreparably by a poor restoration.

There is a pipe "restorer" on eBay called Paramount Pipes (in the UK). He "restores" pipes by scraping and scouring the finish, often obliterating the stamps and leaving the pipe with an unattractive, oily matte finish. I've bought some rare pipes from him before. I don't quite know if the damage he does is repairable. I cringe to think that he'll get his hands on something of singular rarity and value. I would literally pay him to not restore the pipe. I can't agree with you more.

 

[burleybreath]

Damn. That's an ugly fill. I've seen some fills and that one takes the cake.

Ain't nuthin', yo. This beauty smokes like a dream. I'd even go so far as to say a wet dream, as it does gurgle sometimes when it gets really cooking. Smells funny, too. Lord knows where it's been, or used for. I do believe it was once owned by a horse proctologist. Knowing that has kept me up many a night, puffing warily on the s.o.b.--the pipe, I mean, not the doc.

Question: Is this really the best color match the manufacturer can come up with? Better makers aren't much better in this regard. What? Is dyeing filler crap neuroscience or something average mortals can't comprehend? I've a good notion to trade it for one of them Castello things. Would that be a step up, or has Castello merely learned to hide their fills better?

 

[bullet08]

They let that out of the factory? Damn.

 

[The Mitre]

That's a shame, I hope my first little attempt was not quiet as bad as yours Bullet08. But, hey ho, it smokes ok so that's the main thing I guess.

I think you stray slightly Green eyes. Where Paralogous come into the equation I'm not sure. I think we're both drifting into an area of semantics where neither of us will quiet satisfy the other. Let's call a truce...

Let me ask the general readership is it useful to see how an "amateur" like me gets on with restoration projects or should I just keep them to myself?

Look forward to hearing from you, Peter.

 

[greeneyes]

Let me ask the general readership is it useful to see how an "amateur" like me gets on with restoration projects or should I just keep them to myself?

Look forward to hearing from you, Peter.

I'll just summarize my viewpoint here and be done with it.

You're not just an "amateur restoring pipes." You're an eBay seller making major repairs to potentially priceless antique pipes and you've been selling them without divulging said repairs to potential buyers. You've been handily avoiding addressing this fact and show no intent of actually updating your eBay listings either.

My purpose was a caveat emptor to my fellow pipe collectors, nothing more. A buyer can choose to pay your top premium prices and play woodshop Russian-roulette. Hopefully the pipes remain salvageable by a skilled pipe repairman after whatever "restorations" you perform on them.

I cringe to think what priceless antique pipes might pass under your butcher's knife.

 

[clynch]

I seriously consider it character. Call it the Holy pipe and smoke it with reverance.

 

[The Mitre]

Oh dear Greeneyes, I hope you feel better now. Perhaps you'd be good enough to let me know what you collect and I can then post my butchering process on one of your favourites in the hope of snagging a sale from you.
Perhaps not. All the very best, Peter.

 

[simong]

@The Mitre
I see you’re in the same town as me so I’ll offer you some friendly advice.
Don’t be greedy, you’ll still get big money for rare pipes….just leave the restoration to the restorers.
When you come on & ask members to identify a pipe or for some advice, listen to them. Don’t be dishonest by then going on eBay & describing that pipe as something else, just to make a few more quid.
You did this with a GBD pipe, not so long ago. After being told (correctly) it was a ‘post cadogan era’ pipe, I saw you describe it on the bay as a ‘pre cadogan era’ pipe. This sort of thing will win you no friends on here & it will lose you a lot of customers out there. Many of whom peruse these pages regularly.

 

[The Mitre]

Well if I got that wrong with the pre or post I apologise. However I did discuss this with one of my clients who explained about Cardogan. IF I got it wrong it was a genuine mistake.

However, I do take exception to being branded as "dishonest"! I have not risen to the bait with these postings and will continue to do so but, please, don't describe someone as dishonest when you really have no idea what you are talking about.

Sleep tight and, as they say, put that in your pipe and smoke it!

ATB Peter

PS It's easy to hide behind a moniker, be wary of what you say.

 

[simong]

Well if I got that wrong with the pre or post I apologise. However I did discuss this with one of my clients who explained about Cardogan. IF I got it wrong it was a genuine mistake.

However, I do take exception to being branded as "dishonest"! I have not risen to the bait with these postings and will continue to do so but, please, don't describe someone as dishonest when you really have no idea what you are talking about.

Sleep tight and, as they say, put that in your pipe and smoke it!

ATB Peter

PS It's easy to hide behind a moniker, be wary of what you say.

Peter, the person who has ‘no idea‘ what he’s talking about is you, not me. Furthermore, who’s hiding ‘behind a moniker?’ My name’s Simon & I’m in Hereford, if you want to sell any of your pipes in person or meet up & have a chat about pipes, I’d be more than willing to do so.

 

[greeneyes]

Well if I got that wrong with the pre or post I apologise. However I did discuss this with one of my clients who explained about Cardogan. IF I got it wrong it was a genuine mistake.

However, I do take exception to being branded as "dishonest"! I have not risen to the bait with these postings and will continue to do so but, please, don't describe someone as dishonest when you really have no idea what you are talking about.

Sleep tight and, as they say, put that in your pipe and smoke it!

ATB Peter

PS It's easy to hide behind a moniker, be wary of what you say.

Not updated the eBay listing letting the buyers know which Peterson has the "repaired" crack yet then?

Perhaps just an honest mistake there as well.

Oh dear Greeneyes, I hope you feel better now. Perhaps you'd be good enough to let me know what you collect and I can then post my butchering process on one of your favourites in the hope of snagging a sale from you.
Perhaps not. All the very best, Peter.

One can only pray. Glad you've shown your true colors to us all, Peter.

All the best to you.

 

[The Mitre]

Peter, the person who has ‘no idea‘ what he’s talking about is you, not me. Furthermore, who’s hiding ‘behind a moniker?’ My name’s Simon & I’m in Hereford, if you want to sell any of your pipes in person or meet up & have a chat about pipes, I’d be more than willing to do so.

Hello Simon, nice to meet you, at last.

Lets try to put things in perspective.

I currently have 93 items listed on eBay. 24 of these have no interest for you, 29 are meerschaum pipes and 40 are briars. I believe it's this last batch that's giving you angst.

Of the 40 briar pipes 38 have had nor do they show any signs of repair by me or anyone else.

The two that do are the later Peterson churchwarden and the early Peterson church warden.

Both have been repaired by me and it clearly states this in the listings.

If you are also concerned about the pre or post CBD Cadogan this has sold for £12.50 without complaint. I probably made a mistake here but, frankly, the pipe is sound and good and the buyer is happy.

I object to being called a dishonest money grabber and would ask you nicely to withdraw that accusation.

It is clearly apparent that I do not try to mis represent the pipes I sell and, frankly, I don't understand your position.

Please keep watching my listings and rather than being destructive try to be constructive and I'm always open to sensible suggestions.

ATB Peter.