On Hipsters

[warren]

It's comfortable, this going over well plowed ground. No one has anything new to add so we all just repeat what we typed last week or last month. We feel that, by continuously repeating are same observations that we will, in time, prevail with our arguments. A waste of time for sure but, the Master's is over for the day, it's raining and windy. So, back to the old grind, debating "hipsters", decrying or defending Peterson pipes, arguing the pluses and minuses of cobs or Dunhills, teaching yet another how to clean a pipe, and on and on.

 

[warren]

Robots equal leisure time. Much like a maid, not as much fun though. The robot not the maid. Less hassle with the robot though. Higher initial cost. Damn! Hum, a conundrum.

 

[brian64]

Robots equal leisure time.

Especially when they take your job.

 

[warren]

Ah, before that happens, start learning "robot repair." I suspect that job will pay well and be in high demand. Gotta look ahead, take advantage of the situation and prosper. Some people will see the upside and gain. Others will simply throw up their hands ans surrender.
aldecaker: New wrinkle in an old, beat up subject. Robots!

 

[brian64]

Ah, before that happens, start learning "robot repair."

I looked into that...the robots are training other robots for those jobs. :mrgreen:
EDIT: actually, there were a few openings for humans, but they all stipulated "hipsters only need apply" (well, human in their own way let's say).

 

[deathmetal]

It's comfortable, this going over well plowed ground.

Not quite as comfortable as failing to understand a thread and classifying it as such.

 

[warren]

I believe that ship sailed with the first response. You wanted a serious dialogue. Ain't gonna happen! The subject is just too polarizing for a serious discussion on a forum. There is not even a consensus as to a definition of what is a "hipster."

 

[deathmetal]

I don't agree. This was a warning on the misinterpretation of hipster in a way that penalized good people and let the real bastards off the hook. The AdBusters article clarifies the definition.
In addition, it's a technical error to say it is a rehash of past threads, as it is a new topic. I share your cynicism about the response of the average person but it's not going to help to affirm the direction you believe they will take.
In another fifty years, we will see hipsterism as a psychological defense mechanism like hoarding, and differentiate it from behaviors that merely appear "hipsterish" such as having beards, smoking Latakia, etc.

 

[warren]

I strongly doubt your vision of the future. Each generation has a group, which people like to point out as the defining element of the time. Peace Niks and anti-war groups defined my generation. But, my generation also fought that war. The Second World War defined a generation, totally ignoring the dissident side of the generation. Well, except for rarely read authors and academics. These wee generational aberrations seldom last, except to be fondly remembered by aging hippies, hipsters, vets, and some nostalgic members of the media. Now, if some Hollywood type accidentally makes a mega-hit about hipsters, they may get more historical recognition than they deserve. Only Hollywood (read: the film industry) can do that. Historians can't in this day and age. A "Play Station" or other video game might, I doubt it.
An observation: No real and serious discussion of a polarizing subject can take place on a forum such as this. Some member or another will become offended and respond in a knee-jerk way. The thread will become entirely too personal and the mods will have to step in. Other forums may allow such, this one is entirely too civilized.

 

[deathmetal]

Each generation has a group

Might help to read the AdBusters article. Hipsterism originated long ago and is not a generational thing.

 

[warren]

I read it. Thought it was self-serving tripe with absolutely no substance, catering to a small, specific audience.

 

[warren]

He asked. I read. Perhaps tripe was too strong a word. Dreck is might better serve.
"De gustibus non est disputandum." True but, that would be sooooo limiting, especially when discussing "Royal Yacht."

 

[deathmetal]

I never thought of the groupthink crowd as hipsters, but I do now.

Good point. Hipsterism is a subset of groupthink. But it's distinct from mere participation in conventions.

Thought it was self-serving tripe with absolutely no substance, catering to a small, specific audience.

That's not analysis; it's a posture. While that is one possible response, it makes more sense to point out where it was wrong instead of simply passing a moral judgment.
The important point: hipsterism originated in the 80s or before, and therefore, is not generational.

 

[warren]

Now you want me to parse it! Crap!
Okay, read it again. It's simply a poorly written, hyperbole filled, impression of something he has seen and is trying to make sense of. He's writing about his impressions, can't argue his individual take. There's nothing to discuss or analyze. It's superficial, no substance and no citations. Now, how do I get the time I spent reading and rereading it back?
I know nothing about the author's morals and so cannot judge. If I did, I wouldn't. None of my concern and never entered my mind to do so. I also tried to suspend my innate distrust of "Adbusters" or other self-professed experts, for the purpose of this discussion. Nor will I address the morality of "hipsterism." It simply is and I wouldn't waste time judging it as right or wrong from a moral stand point.
I did well just to keep my opinion restricted only to the article. My mind was not changed. There is nothing in the article to challenge. It is simply one man's characterization of what he sees. How he presented his impressions is far from impressive. And, as this is my observation and impression it is unassailable.
And angst has been around for many generations. Nothing new with dissatisfaction.

 

[hawky454]

we need a "hug a hipster" movement...
I've never heard of a hipster admitting he's a hipster... Hipsters talk shit about hipsters so how can it be a state of mind when one can't even admit to existing as such? Is it that they wan't to appear to be passionate about a subculture instead of just being passionate?

 

[fafnir]

If hipsters smoke a pipe, likes single malt whisky, bench press more than me and can tap me out, well than I have no qualms about hipsters sir.

 

[beefeater33]

Why all this worry about someone else? When I grew up it was proper to mind your own business.... Who gives a rat's ass if someone is a hipster, or a gay, or a hillbilly, or a flake, or a democrat, or a .................. :crazy:

Lot of time and energy spent here on a subset of a population....., makes for an entertaining read tho- carry on..... ::

 

[drumweezer]

After looking at AdBusters (which I could be completely wrong about this), it seems that this is a popular magazine ran by a non-profit organization. However, when looking at the articles as well as the front covers, the magazine frames itself as post-modern created and supported by post-modernists. Looking at the submission guidelines, anyone (regardless of education, experience, contexts, etc.) can submit an article to the magazine. I don't have a problem with the magazine, although I would probably question the majority of the information in it. And this is why: the term "hipster" originates from the 1930s and 1940s Jazz counterculture. The term "hipsterism" did not exist in the 80s. Therefore, if the term did not exist. The notion of "hipsterism" did not exist. One of the claims in the article is that hipsters are different in that they are mostly known for their high consumption of products and appropriating certain kinds of notions and practices from other countercultures or eras. Yet, all countercultures in some shape or form have been consumers or appropriated certain kinds knowledges or practices from other cultural spaces. To be honest, I don't have a problem with hipsters, tattoos, bicycles, or any other identifier connected to hipsters or any counterculture or subculture. I'm a lesbian with three tattoos, a single speed bicycle, a proud pet owner of five cats, three goldfish, three snails, and an orphaned sparrow nestling, and who has a mother who still proudly proclaims she is a hippie at 73. I've also been a working drummer for 22 years playing music from Classic Rock, Punk, Hardcore, Metal, R & B, Country, and Blues on top of being a struggling PhD student and English Instructor. In my travels as a musician, I've seen many countercultures that attempt in some way to be better than others when really it's just the same rules coming from different bodies. I say if it makes someone happy to wear a certain kind of clothing or think a certain way, then it's all good. My concern is the way the original post was written. I love beautiful prose just as much as the next person, but as a writing instructor, the post (writing wise) went against everything I tell students in my courses not to do. Writing is much more than a command of English language. They realize this when they get a C (or perhaps lower) on their first assignment because they forget or overlook audience, purpose, context, or worse, attempt to use language to sound better or smarter than others. I don't think that was deathmetal's intention, but things can be read in all kinds of ways online. Maybe that doesn't matter to most, but it does for me in that the post made me realize the kinds of writings students may be seeing online that contrasts to what I'm trying to teach them. I know this sounds extremely critical, and I apologize if I am being overly critical. I say these things not out of anger, spite, or malice. And if someone wants to argue against my post, I'm fine with that too, although I will be spending most of my day tomorrow writing and revising.

 

[deathmetal]

The term "hipsterism" did not exist in the 80s. Therefore, if the term did not exist. The notion of "hipsterism" did not exist.

Er, no. That's a bit of a logical error: "The term we use now was not used then, therefore it did not exist."

 

[deathmetal]

E.g., "Dandy," "gallant," "fop," "blade," "macaroni," " popinjay," "swell," "coxcomb," "sport," "ninny," "buck" (et al.) A rose by any other name.

Not to mention the classic "poseur" and "scenester."
The point of this thread was that hipsterism is not a simple factor of having a beard (or listening to certain music) but of intent, and all of those names you listed above have the same thing in common:
Insincerity, or using personal behavior as a signal of social status, instead of doing acts for their own sake.
It is analogous to the "keeping up with the Joneses" like buying a new Twitter-connected refrigerator just because your neighbors did.
It would be one thing if you had a need for a Twitter-connected refrigerator, but if you did it for bourgeois or poseur reasons, then that's in the hipster zone.
Great list of terms.