Old GBD Xtra - I've hit a research wall

[osiris01]

Hi folks,
Cap in hand I come in the hope that someone can prevent me from going nuts. I picked this lovely little GBD last week and I've hit a wall in my research. A brief summary of what I think I know scavenged from Pipedia/forums etc. Back around the late 20s, GDB didn't grade their briar, so they created two designations - the Xtra and the Special to denote pipes that have had addition features/finishes etc. These weren't product/model lines, but more of a grade system that differentiated it from the standard GBD (which had just the 'GBD' stamp). By 1937, the Xtra/Special designations were dropped and the more tradition model lines were introduced (Pedigree/New Era etc). However, there were a couple of exception: some Prehistorics were also marked 'Xtra', and a 1950s catalogue I've seen also seems to carry the Xtra line (although they do look quite different). I've been trying to determine if this is one of the 1930s Xtras, with little luck.
I've grown very attached to this little pipe, but it is starting to drive me up the wall a little. The nomenclature has no COM and I can't find out when COM stamps were introduced. I have had a few GBDs but later models from the 50/60s all of which had COM stamps. I do understand a little of the history of the English and French factories (but the COM stamp didn't necessarily reflect where it was made), but I can't find out when they were introduced. The stem is beautiful -it doesn't have a hand cut stamp, but I'm 99% sure it is (the 1% doubt is the bit). I can't find any reference to the shape number (1024), but as I understand it, they had different numbers for each variation of a shape/stem, so had literally thousands. The stem inlay looks slightly different to the more contemporary 50/60s GBDs in that it is seems slightly more refined and better articulated. The only stamps are the GDB Xtra and the shape number.
Can any kind soul shed some light on this me or tell me where I've gone wrong? Many thanks in advance.
Geoff

 

[ssjones]

Very interesting. I'm also just finished a GBD with no COM. All of the "Hand Cut" stems that I've encountered have the bullet style tenon. The Xtra grade did start pretty early, but a 1930's pipe would have had a slightly oval button (as you mention). The rondells on my two 1930's era GBD's is slightly smaller by a mm or so versus a later rondell. That shape number is not on any of my lists.

 

[osiris01]

Yes, I did wonder about that slot. It's really is a lovely stem - it is very similar to an Orlik Supreme I had a while ago. It has the look and feel of a hand cut, but that slot?? Maybe just very good quality raw material. Well, assuming it's the original stem, it gives me a starting point. And the rondell is exactly as you describe. What were your impressions when you were working on your pipe, if you don't mind me asking?
Thanks for your response.
Geoff

 

[ssjones]

I'm not exactly sure I understand your question Geoff. I'll do a Reborn Pipes article on the pipe shortly, then post here, that should answer your questions. I can't recall any GBD without a COM, now I've seen two in one week!

 

[osiris01]

I was just wondering whether your were able to date your pipe or found out why it had no COM. But I'll be very interested in reading of its transformation on Reborn Pipes.
Cheers

 

[ssjones]

Unfortunately, there's no real way to definitively date a non-hallmarked GBD, so my comments are just an educated guess.

 

[osiris01]

Alas, tis true. But where would the fun be in a definitive answer? The lack of COM is the puzzling part - whether it's significant (as in the old Petes), or just an anomaly. I suspect that if the answer was known, it has sadly been lost to time. There is a similar thread here. It is an Xtra, has a hallmark, but it's not readable, no COM. The OP actually comments on the quality of the vulcanite. I shall continue my hunt and start to refurb it.
Many thanks.
Geoff

 

[ssjones]

Ah yes, Klaus Xtra, which had the original AO hall-marked band (and ovalized button). If that stem is original (most likely, given the rondell), the stepped tenon seems to show up in the 50's era pipes. There are so few hallmarked GBD's, it is difficult to use them for a date reference. I use "lost to time" a lot regarding GBD....
Forum member "hagley" and his brother, at one time, had what was one of the largest collections of GBD's in the US, you might want to PM him for input.

 

[osiris01]

Yep, that's the one. As an aside, I had an old Pete with a diamond shank and the hallmark was on the corner and rubbed out, which was even more frustrating than this. I ended up buying a microscope just to see if I could read the mark. I thought I had it, looked it up and it came up as 1890 or something wildly incorrect (it was definitely post-patent). Had to get rid of it in the end - it would sit there and taunt me all day.
Yes, lost to time is looking like the likely outcome for this one. Would still like to know the story with the date the COM was introduced though, and also all the literature I've managed to pull up (which is not a lot) has the Xtra as discontinued in 37. I may have to hassle poor Hagley.
Thanks for your time. Much appreciated.
Geoff

 

[snagstangl]

the 1938-39 Oppenheimer catalog lists the GBD extra line.

 

[osiris01]

I've not managed to find one that old - I only managed the 50s. Do you happen to know where I can find a copy? Would be very interesting to look through.

 

[osiris01]

I thought I'd update this thread with the little I have discovered.
My main query was regarding the lack of COM. Sadly, I have made no progress on this and suspect I never will. However, I have managed to come up with some trivia which some may find interesting.
I did manage to find some catalogue partials/flyers from the 1930s and from the 1950s and compared them with my pipe. Pipedia and others state that the Xtra was discontinued in 1937/38. However, they appear in both the 30s and the 50s catalogues. The main difference is that the Xtras from the 50s had chamfered rims and were stamped 'London Made'. I suspect that there is some truth in the Pipedia article (written by G.L.Pease) and wonder if the English factory did discontinue the Xtras while the French factory continued. That is a guess, but in the time between the 30s and the 50s the design of the pipes changed.
A few other interesting facts. The Xtras were so named because they had addition treatments/processes. The Xtra was treated to "eliminate the breaking-in process ensuring a mellow smoke from the start". Hmmm? The bit was actually called the "Curved Wafer Tip of Comfort". My images don't show this very well, but the bit is quite convex.
It does seem that my pipe is closer to the 30s Xtra than the 50s, but I'm only comparing the two dates and it would be nice to get a catalogue from the 40s to see if they have chamfered rim etc.
Anyway, I have also done some work on the pipe. The rim was scorched so I had to go with a dark stain and there is a chunk missing from the top shank ridge above the stamp. I steamed some of it out, but steaming is not going replace lost wood, and left it as is, but it is winking at me every time I look at it and may try to fill just to regain the sharp line. I need to do a bit more stem work, but this is how it is looking:
(PS: Many thanks to those who contributed, particularly Al who spent a lot of his free time (and patience) helping me.)
Thanks, Geoff

 

[ssjones]

That looks like a great restoration to me, and terrific photos.

 

[cortezattic]

Lovely pipe, and thanks for all the pix! :clap:

(I'd leave that nick in the shank -- gives it "character".)

 

[sablebrush52]

The Xtra was treated to "eliminate the breaking-in process ensuring a mellow smoke from the start". Hmmm?

Means that the chamber was coated so as to avoid the breaking in period.
I'd be very surprised to find out that there was a 1940's ear catalog, given that the pipe making trade was pretty much knocked flat for most of the 1940's by WW2.
You did a very nice job of cleaning up that pipe!

 

[osiris01]

Thanks folks. Yes, the nick in the shank - it just grates on me, but it does give it character (and fixing it could go horribly - tricky to get right).
The comment on the 1940s was more of an idle musing on the evolution of the Xtra between the late 30s and 1950, but pipe production in both the UK and France must have stopped almost entirely during the war years and probably didn't recover for many years after that, so I'm guessing that it didn't change a great deal between those dates. A thoughtless comment.
Yes, I assume it was just a coating. Rather disappointing since the point of the Xtra and Special designations were to indicate special treatments etc. For 2 shilling and 6 pence, I would want more than a bit of charcoal in the chamber! I'm assuming it was a little more than that since a charcoal coat would not eliminate the need to break-in a pipe, just reduce the time to create a cake - you still need to break it in and it still tastes funky until you do. But marketing was the same back then as it is now, I guess.
Thanks for your comments.
Geoff

 

[sablebrush52]

Rather disappointing since the point of the Xtra and Special designations were to indicate special treatments etc. For 2 shilling and 6 pence, I would want more than a bit of charcoal in the chamber!

Maybe they added a bit of honey to the coating.

 

[osiris01]

:D. I should hope that they filled the box up with the stuff.

 

[snagstangl]

I was re reading a Jacques Cole article concerning GBDs titled "Story of a Pipe Brand" it had this to say about this topic:
"We have seen that early Briar

GBDs were made in only one, later

two qualities and the need to mark

the difference did not arise. There

were few finishes but towards the end

of the 19th century demand was

changing, for instance the UK had a

"penchant" for the darker finishes.

Qualities were therefore sub-divided

and we see the introduction of the

GBD XTRA (note the spelling). The

GBD Speciales were as the name

implied, special models, finishes and

fittings. GBD XTRAs were the

cream, being mostly straight grains.

The "ordinary* quality was simply

stamped GBD.

Demand after the First World War

called for further identification

starting with GBD 'London Made*

which became 'Standard London

Made*, followed by GBD "New Era',

top of the range in 1931 at 12/6d!

GBD 'Pedigree', although first

thought of around 1926, was well

established in the late 1930s. GBD

"New Standard' was created to give a

boost to the "Standards' of the 1920s

and a newly introduced sandblast was

called GBD 'Prehistoric', still bearing

a smalt GBD 'Xtra* stamp.

French made GBDs followed more

or less the same ideas, still however

using 'Xtra' and 'Speeiale' while in

the late '20s a metal system GBD was

introduced under the name GBD

'Extra Dry*.

The 1920s also saw an important

development with the introduction of

the metal GBD inlay on mouthpieces

which gave the pipes that extra 'touch

of class'. This inlay has been used on

GBDs for nearly 60 years."

 

[osiris01]

Hi Stagstangl
I started with either this text or one using it as source and it does explain well the reason for creating, first the Xtras and Speciales, and later, the other graded lines like New Era, Pedigree etc. The problem is that the Xtra and Speciale were discontinued in 1937/8 (Pipedia et al) because the new lines provided a more refined grading system. And yet, the Xtra was listed in the catalogs until 1950.
My guess is that the French factory continued with the Xtra, for a reason unknown to me. The only evidence I have of this is a badly translated sentence from Pipedia that describes the process of creating additional lines. It reads "The French GBDs more or less followed the same developments, although Xtra and Speciale very longly used there." What 'Longly used there' means I don't know, but somewhere was still making them, and if you translate 'longly' as 'longer', it does imply that they continued making them for a longer period. It's a far from perfect explanation but, as I said, they were still being made somewhere and it does imply that the French factory were responsible. However, they were different to the Xtras made in the 20s/30s since the later ones had a chamfered rim, different stems etc.
However, reading you text again, I wonder if the it is hinting at a COM."Demand after the First World War

called for further identification starting with GBD 'London Made* which became 'Standard London Made*,". It doesn't say that a COM was not used before then (that would be too easy), but you wouldn't stamp a pipe "Xtra, London Made, London Made" or similar.
I just don't have enough evidence, reference points, old models to compare against etc. Even describing it as an educated guess is still stretching it a bit. The best guess, perhaps.
However, what I do know is that the 1930s Xtras were fitted with a specific stem with an unusual button called the 'curved wafer tip of comfort' (just rolls off the tongue). The following images shows the detail from a 1938 catalogue and the button on my pipe, and to my eye, they are the same. Not in any way conclusive, but it's the best I've been able to come up with.