Ogden's St Julien

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jaingorenard

Part of the Furniture Now
Apr 11, 2022
848
3,780
Norwich, UK
@simong and I recently had the chance to pick up a few pouches of some of the old Ogden's blends, including St Julien. St Julien was an incredibly popular tobacco in the UK, and makes up by far the majority of empty tins you find in junk and antique shops. I know a fair few pipe smokers who say 'my father/grandfather smoked St Julien'.

Having said that, I have never met anyone who has ever smoked it. So I thought I'd ask the forum! Has anyone smoked it? IMG-20241127-WA0002.jpeg
 

Mrs. Pickles

Can't Leave
May 8, 2022
300
1,383
AZ, USA
Has anyone smoked it?

Only in my dreams! I’ve been curious about St Julien ever since stumbling on to a list of the components in its topping:

JESTER COMPOSITION.png Source: Industry Documents Library - https://www.industrydocuments.ucsf.edu/tobacco/docs/#id=nnfj0211

(Also see page one of that document [code name BONBAC] for the components of St. Bruno's sauce when BAT made the blend. I think page three [UNPLAIT-X] is the case for Player's Navy Cut cigarettes.)

Just going off the list, I'm imagining a fresh batch would be smell like a warmer and creamier version of the old St. Bruno with baby powder Ylang Ylang at the forefront.

I heard a rumor that St Julien once had cocaine in the formula way back in the day, too.

This promises to be extrodinary stuff and so exciting to see such a well preserved package. Please let us know how it smokes!
 

Terry Lennox

Part of the Furniture Now
Aug 11, 2021
598
3,080
Southern California
Only in my dreams! I’ve been curious about St Julien ever since stumbling on to a list of the components in its topping:

View attachment 352297 Source: Industry Documents Library - https://www.industrydocuments.ucsf.edu/tobacco/docs/#id=nnfj0211

(Also see page one of that document [code name BONBAC] for the components of St. Bruno's sauce when BAT made the blend. I think page three [UNPLAIT-X] is the case for Player's Navy Cut cigarettes.)

Just going off the list, I'm imagining a fresh batch would be smell like a warmer and creamier version of the old St. Bruno with baby powder Ylang Ylang at the forefront.

I heard a rumor that St Julien once had cocaine in the formula way back in the day, too.

This promises to be extrodinary stuff and so exciting to see such a well preserved package. Please let us know how it smokes!
"Civet extract"
Don't Google it!
 

beef

Starting to Get Obsessed
Feb 10, 2021
151
350
Ontario
Those damn civets... they also produce the most expensive coffee in the world if I am not mistaken. You brew their shit.
 
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jaingorenard

Part of the Furniture Now
Apr 11, 2022
848
3,780
Norwich, UK
Only in my dreams! I’ve been curious about St Julien ever since stumbling on to a list of the components in its topping:

View attachment 352297 Source: Industry Documents Library - https://www.industrydocuments.ucsf.edu/tobacco/docs/#id=nnfj0211

(Also see page one of that document [code name BONBAC] for the components of St. Bruno's sauce when BAT made the blend. I think page three [UNPLAIT-X] is the case for Player's Navy Cut cigarettes.)

Just going off the list, I'm imagining a fresh batch would be smell like a warmer and creamier version of the old St. Bruno with baby powder Ylang Ylang at the forefront.

I heard a rumor that St Julien once had cocaine in the formula way back in the day, too.

This promises to be extrodinary stuff and so exciting to see such a well preserved package. Please let us know how it smokes!
What a fascinating document; thanks for sharing it. How did you find out to which tobaccos the codes referred?
 
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OzPiper

Lifer
Nov 30, 2020
7,175
39,589
72
Sydney, Australia
"Civet extract"
Don't Google it!


Those damn civets... they also produce the most expensive coffee in the world if I am not mistaken. You brew their shit.
Growing up in Malaysia, my father was a keen huntsman in his younger days. He used to come back occasionally with a civet (“musang” in Malay”) or two. You can smell them from quite a way because of the “musk” they produce from their perianal scent glands.
I was never fond of civet soup 😝

Civets love coffee berries, but the beans pass through their digestive tracts in their poop untouched. Kopi luwak is mainly “farmed” these days but still fetch a premium.
And no, I have not been tempted to try
 

Mrs. Pickles

Can't Leave
May 8, 2022
300
1,383
AZ, USA
What a fascinating document; thanks for sharing it. How did you find out to which tobaccos the codes referred?

Searching around in the archive you’ll find company communications that reference the codes in conjunction with the tobaccos.

Here's one that associates BONBAC and JESTER with St Bruno and St Julien:


This is a much more extensive list of codes.

BONBAC and JESTER are defined on page 22:

jester bonbac.png

Interestingly, page 23 also mentions BRUNSAN and JULESET as separate codes for St Bruno and St Julien's flavors. Looking at other memos, those seem to be alternative formulations that replaced BONBAC and JESTER for a time.

No doubt some codgers were pissed when that happened. It's too bad they didn't have a pipe forum to share their grievances.
 

Terry Lennox

Part of the Furniture Now
Aug 11, 2021
598
3,080
Southern California
Searching around in the archive you’ll find company communications that reference the codes in conjunction with the tobaccos.

Here's one that associates BONBAC and JESTER with St Bruno and St Julien:


This is a much more extensive list of codes.

BONBAC and JESTER are defined on page 22:

View attachment 352525

Interestingly, page 23 also mentions BRUNSAN and JULESET as separate codes for St Bruno and St Julien's flavors. Looking at other memos, those seem to be alternative formulations that replaced BONBAC and JESTER for a time.

No doubt some codgers were pissed when that happened. It's too bad they didn't have a pipe forum to share their grievances.
What I took away from reading many of the correspondence back and forth is that BAT licensed the manufacture of blends (and cigarettes) to different regions, and then would ship the flavorings in steel drums around the world. The flavorings is how they controlled the brands in factories that they didn't fully own, in say, India or Denmark. As each country's laws changed they had to develop new formulations for those regions, and thus new code names.
 
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greeneyes

Lifer
Jun 5, 2018
2,362
12,900
@simong and I recently had the chance to pick up a few pouches of some of the old Ogden's blends, including St Julien. St Julien was an incredibly popular tobacco in the UK, and makes up by far the majority of empty tins you find in junk and antique shops. I know a fair few pipe smokers who say 'my father/grandfather smoked St Julien'.

Having said that, I have never met anyone who has ever smoked it. So I thought I'd ask the forum! Has anyone smoked it? View attachment 352025
This is exciting, J!! I'd love to see what the flake looks like when you've opened it! It was such a famous brand!
 
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jaingorenard

Part of the Furniture Now
Apr 11, 2022
848
3,780
Norwich, UK
This is exciting, J!! I'd love to see what the flake looks like when you've opened it! It was such a famous brand!
I think it's ready rubbed, but you'll definitely get to see it when it's opened! Not quite as exciting, but I managed to pick up these today from a junk shop
 

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anotherbob

Lifer
Mar 30, 2019
17,248
32,379
46
In the semi-rural NorthEastern USA
Only in my dreams! I’ve been curious about St Julien ever since stumbling on to a list of the components in its topping:

View attachment 352297 Source: Industry Documents Library - https://www.industrydocuments.ucsf.edu/tobacco/docs/#id=nnfj0211

(Also see page one of that document [code name BONBAC] for the components of St. Bruno's sauce when BAT made the blend. I think page three [UNPLAIT-X] is the case for Player's Navy Cut cigarettes.)

Just going off the list, I'm imagining a fresh batch would be smell like a warmer and creamier version of the old St. Bruno with baby powder Ylang Ylang at the forefront.

I heard a rumor that St Julien once had cocaine in the formula way back in the day, too.
It is more possible that it had the plant cocaine is extracted from. Which if it does the effect would not be dissimilar to having a cup of strong tea at most. But people love those rumors.
Jager has opium and deers blood you know. (according to people) or it does if you buy it in Germany. Obviously that's not true but people certainly buy into it.
This promises to be extrodinary stuff and so exciting to see such a well preserved package. Please let us know how it smokes!
Sounds pretty awesome to me.
 
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Mrs. Pickles

Can't Leave
May 8, 2022
300
1,383
AZ, USA
Thank you to the very generous @jaingorenard for a sizeable sample from this pouch! It's been a privilege to taste it.

There were two surprises right out of the package:

One was the very fine shag cut seen in the pictures above. The other (even more shocking) surprise was the enduring potency of its topping.

Despite decades of age and a double wrap in food saver bags, the box that contained the sample was filled with the volatiles of St. Julien's long-dead topping: softly floral, cool, woody and musky, a scent evocative of shampoos and department stores from when I was little.

It's interesting that you sense an overlap with RB plug, Joe. I wasn't aware of RB plug until after it got discontinued, but I recall it being described (possibly by you in another thread) as having a unique and spicy, wood incense-like topping. I can see that here.

Comparing to what I've experienced myself, St. Julien’s flavor reminded me of Gawith's Bosun Cut Plug and older Condor, including the potency of the tobacco's own flavors carrying through the heavier topping. And heavy it was. The scent of the topping hung on through the entire smoke, persisting into the aftertaste and still clings to the pipe a week (and several bowls of burley) later.

I tried not to search too hard for the scents in that list of ingredients from the BAT archive, but interestingly, my wife, completely without knowledge of that list, smelled the dry leaf and said it reminded her of baby balm. Ylang Ylang scents a lot of baby creams here in the US, so maybe some of that list rings true.

Whatever was in the sauce and whatever clings to the leaf after all these years still made for a fascinating and nostalgic smoke. It's a relic of another era, for sure--a time when we were less shy about strong and complex smells in our lives, tobacco and perfume alike.