No, it's Not Just You: Music has Gotten Worse

[gubbyduffer]

I generally believe the time of virtuoso is a thing of the past. Not because people aren’t talented, but there’s just so much talent at a high level. You have a generation or two of kids that have grown up with very high quality audio, HD video of everything and just time learning whatever they can for years. I’d argue todays B musician is likely more talented than yesterdays.

It’s so difficult to stand out from a pure talent standpoint.

Even look at recording facilities. I had a brief chat earlier this year with a partner facility on how one of their stages was built and funded specifically for an album several decades ago. That type of thing just doesn’t happen anymore. You can set a rig up in a house somewhere and produce a record winning album and rip it all down when it’s done.

Things are so incredibly efficient, it’s difficult to realize just how much that impacts everything else.

Could not say it better myself.

 

[captainsousie]

I generally believe the time of virtuoso is a thing of the past. Not because people aren’t talented, but there’s just so much talent at a high level. You have a generation or two of kids that have grown up with very high quality audio, HD video of everything and just time learning whatever they can for years. I’d argue todays B musician is likely more talented than yesterdays.

It’s so difficult to stand out from a pure talent standpoint.

Even look at recording facilities. I had a brief chat earlier this year with a partner facility on how one of their stages was built and funded specifically for an album several decades ago. That type of thing just doesn’t happen anymore. You can set a rig up in a house somewhere and produce a record winning album and rip it all down when it’s done.

Things are so incredibly efficient, it’s difficult to realize just how much that impacts everything else.

This is a good take on it. I want to add that post-production has made it so that every artist is "perfect." The problem with that for me is I like those little imperfections that make a piece of music really special. Sadly, in the mainstream especially, that seems to be gone...for now.

 

[captainsousie]

To add to my previous post, it's not a new occurrence. There have always been gatekeepers who tell us what the "right way" to make a piece of music is. From the Catholic Church in the medieval era to the bill board charts now, it has been a stream of rules that make music what it is. Digital modification of music to the extreme is just the most recent iteration.

 

[bullet08]

If its aimed at me then yes I have seen clean public bathrooms. Certainly cleaner than any music festival. I am not looming at innovative pop music. My post was in response to cosmicfolklore. Even pop can and does push its boundaries. Pop music of an era draws heavily on influences of the time. Pop music of today sounds different to that of the 90' 80's, 70's or before. Even pop music isn't static.

No, it wasn't at you. Please, you are not that relevant.

 

[fireground_piper]

This is a great point and I agree with it. There are many great musicians today, a wealth of them. However, I believe many are technical players. That's not their fault, they grew up in the age of technology and had a wealth of information at their fingertips.
I think back to who I see as a true virtuoso and they grew up listening and trying to figure out intricacies by ear. By the time they found "their sound" and developed, there was such a depth to their playing. Soul, emotion, you could feel the intensity in their music. It seems now I'll see a really technical player that can play anything and everything perfectly, yet they lack that intensity that made the greats of the past so great. Now of course I'm speaking generally, I still hear modern artists with that effortless soul and intensity. But it seems more of what gets big is the illusion of one feeling the music and not one that is actually feeling the music.
In short, the greatest players I see today could barely tote water for the great players of the past. That's just my (maybe skewed) opinion. I'm very passionate about music from the pre-digital era

I do believe that unlimited access to everything has likely played a heavy part in profound technical ability but less creative originality. I also see the same impact on the infrastructure side of things. I’m barely a musician but my strength resides in infrastructure and where a lot of my career exists.

When you can google a problem and find answers (whether they are correct is another issue) it results in a lack of ability for individual to troubleshooting. Iv been doing it for about 20 years and hit the very tail end of analog with old timers refusing anything digital. Likewise Iv now experienced a new generation that has had less and less exposure to analog along with unlimited access to the internet. When things go wrong, there’s less individual strength in understanding why (at least in my direct experience). People do not understand what thousands of feet of copper look like and the battle of noise interference that comes along with that between end point. They do not understand concepts like isolated grounding. Today, you can send hundreds of channels over an Ethernet cable and you can usually find answers online. It has degraded individuality for sure.

This is a good take on it. I want to add that post-production has made it so that every artist is "perfect." The problem with that for me is I like those little imperfections that make a piece of music really special. Sadly, in the mainstream especially, that seems to be gone...for now.

Agreed, there are pros and cons for sure. I’m not in the music industry, and I LOVE post production for the fact that the signal flow I’m responsible for can be extremely basic. As long as I can ensure the best audio to post, I do not even use any processing to tape. Not an EQ, not a compressor, nothing. I don’t even put them in the studios I’m responsible for. I love the digital age for that reason.

The downside as you say, is it can definitely be over done. You can surgically remove whatever you want to the point where it doesn’t feel natural and it happens more often than I prefer. I don’t do post though, so my critique can only be so relevant.

 

[cosmicfolklore]

I get what you say, however I don't think a head shot to the industry is a bad thing. There has always been great music out there, however until recently if you didn't have a record deal and a way to get your music pressed into vinyl or lasered onto cd you could not realistically be heard by a wider audience. Sites like Bandcamp have allowed bedroom based producers of music to get some brilliant music out. I admit, not for fortunes of money but because it's their passion. I feel more akin to a musician making music they love to an audience that 'gets it' as opposed to U2 yelling at that us they can save the planet from itself, from the inside of The Shere in Vegas.
I also think it's wrong to suggest artists producing music post 2000 can't fill stadiums. Many do, however from a live point of view I think artists can make money touring many smaller boutique festivals where customers think having to wad through rivers of excrement is not a good way to spend their money.
I say this as a forty something who doesn't always get youngsters listening taste, but doesn't feel too aloof to think my music was better. I have seen plenty of modern gigs and festival footage of bands I dont like, sending a crowd wild, thinking if I was 20 years younger I would probably lose my shit there.

I was talking with the guy who runs the amphitheater here… it’s a place that used to have a concert every weekend about 20 years ago with a meager 12,000 capacity. But, now, they may have a concert a month or go a few months between. Used to be Garth Brooks, Cake, Matchbox20, Beck, etc… but, the problem was explained to me that because so many people listen to their own playlists, with algorithms leading them to more of the same, the listeners are spread out into their own worlds, whereas 20 years ago the radio dictated what we listened to (for the most part). That’s where we learned of new bands. So, now, smaller venues have bigger names, because most bands have smaller followings. But, yes, there are a few (much fewer than used to be) big names, mostly R&B/rap and country.

We also went through an Indie Label explosion from the mid 90’s to the 2000’s. When I go to the record store (yeh, I spend a lot more money there than the pipe shop these days) I notice that there are 100’s of labels. There was a new album press set up in Birmingham recently to press albums for several labels. So, there’s not just four major labels anymore, but hundreds.

And, the radio, from what I can tell, is stuck in 1990. I’m not sure it’s because of so many labels to contract with or not, but FM sucks for finding new bands. IMO

What does this mean to the listeners today? It’s harder to find new music. People talking about a band, algorithms, tv, mere chance… I tend to find new bands at the record store, talking with customers and the workers. I just try to find someone without a bunch of skulls tattoo’d all over their face and arms, and start a conversation. Ha ha. Nothing against tattoos, but I rarely share the same taste in tunes, ha ha.

But, sure, I find lots of new bands and musicians that I think are awesome. It doesn’t hurt that I married into a musical family, and I have friends in the industry. But, even as an Apple music subscriber with everything ever recorded at my fingertips, it’s still hard to find good new music, but they are out there.

 

[prairiedruid]

Make
ABBA
Great
Again!

I hear it is quite the movement.

 

[DeaconPiper]

The music industry specifically, and entertainment in general, is run by a few narcissistic people/corporations.

 

[AppalachianPipe92]

The music industry specifically, and entertainment in general, is run by a few narcissistic people/corporations.

All part of the machine

 

[TN Jed]

Taylor Swift is a god!?!

 

[cosmicfolklore]

The music industry specifically, and entertainment in general, is run by a few narcissistic people/corporations.

I’d argue that record companies don’t matter any more. As I’ve explained above, there used to be four major labels, but now 100’s of labels. Bands don’t have to rely on “being signed” anymore. Just record out of pocket, and make a contract with any of the local labels and go… but, they have to promote themselves, because no one is doing that for them anymore.

The same thing is happening in the art world. It used to be that you had made it when you were accepted by a gallery. They would promote their five artists that they rep, and make money for themselves and the artists. Now, galleries have diversified to hundreds of artists that they cannot possibly promote, and the artist is left to promote themselves. You won’t see any more Picasso making millions. There may be lots of artists even better, but they will be left to promote themselves.

 

[cosmicfolklore]

Taylor Swift is a god!?!

They were just talking on the radio… she just had a stadium concert, and realized that she may be able to actually tour stadiums. The discussion was about her leaving acting to go back to music fulltime. She is a very talented firecracker.

 

[cshubhra]

I have a new AI DJ with my Spotify - It is supposed to know what I like and playing music which I would like.

This is going to get interesting since I listen to Indian music 65% of the time and 60s-80s rock rest of the time.


It decided to start with a favorite

Ghost song by Jim Morrison which was a favorite and I listened listened recently

Then it went on to Aerosmith which was good although I don’t remember playing much

Now it is playing “The Seeker” by Who. Not remember playing ever. Still OK

Let’s see where it goes.

 

[TN Jed]

I’d argue that record companies don’t matter any more. As I’ve explained above, there used to be four major labels, but now 100’s of labels. Bands don’t have to rely on “being signed” anymore. Just record out of pocket, and make a contract with any of the local labels and go… but, they have to promote themselves, because no one is doing that for them anymore.

The same thing is happening in the art world. It used to be that you had made it when you were accepted by a gallery. They would promote their five artists that they rep, and make money for themselves and the artists. Now, galleries have diversified to hundreds of artists that they cannot possibly promote, and the artist is left to promote themselves. You won’t see any more Picasso making millions. There may be lots of artists even better, but they will be left to promote themselves.

If the Bankers aren't behind you you're going to make a edit (m)eager living and travel the country in an Econoline forever.

 

[cosmicfolklore]

If the Bankers aren't behind you you're going to make an eager living and travel the country in an Econoline forever.

Most bands these days will never be rich. Heck, MTV had an interesting show about “where are they now”. It was interviews with many of the stars of the 80’s. Most metal bands, the musicians went back to day jobs. Many Pop star were living at about where I do. Some were living in their cars. Even in the 80’s the four big labels had the cards stacked against the musicians. Unless the artists invested back into the field, working for newer bands, they tended to leave music as a career altogether.

 

[captainsousie]

with algorithms leading them to more of the same, the listeners are spread out into their own worlds, whereas 20 years ago the radio dictated what we listened to (for the most part).

Preach it brother (or whatever your pronouns dictate ).

 

[TN Jed]

Most bands these days will never be rich. Heck, MTV had an interesting show about “where are they now”. It was interviews with many of the stars of the 80’s. Most metal bands, the musicians went back to day jobs. Many Pop star were living at about where I do. Some were living in their cars. Even in the 80’s the four big labels had the cards stacked against the musicians. Unless the artists invested back into the field, working for newer bands, they tended to leave music as a career altogether.

Yep but at least they had hookers and tour buses

 

[Auxsender]

In my opinion, one’s opinion of the quality of pop music is reflected in the work they put into hearing music that’s new to them. The music you’re exposed to reflects the effort you put into finding music.

Then there’s taste which simply cannot be accounted for and really shouldn’t have to be.

 

[cosmicfolklore]

One of you younger guys should start a thread with music that has been released in the last 12 months that you think is good, great, or awesome. But, it has to be very recent bands.

I, for one, would love to find new music. Unless of course you guys fill it with a bunch of screaming and metal guitar stuff.

Don’t tell us about it. Show us.

 

[vosBghos]

My question is - where have all the virtuosos gone? It's like being a B- musician now earns you a top spot on the charts and sold out tours.

Now that we are getting to the nitty gritty with the musicianship coming to the fore this is a great point, your last sentence is what drove me to post this in the first place. Where is the new Mahavishnu Orchestra where were they in the 80s,90's2000,2010's? Can it not be said that Jazz itself has been steadily losing its edge since the hard bob era? If the virtuosos are gone then what about the genius that brought them together with a unified vision? I'm sorry to say but I think this fates poorly for all music and most definitely pop.