This is the thing of which we do not speak about here on this PIPE TOBACCO smoking forum....
New Zealand to Ban Smoking for Next Generation in Bid to Outlaw Habit by 2025
- Thread starter timelord
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Not the place for that.
Sounds like the time Hawaii tried to raise the smoking age to 100.
I am just imagining the fake ID's ha
The question is one of paradox. Paradox is not prohibited on the forum. Irony is not prohibited. Or, is humor prohibited? If it is, then shame on you. And every one else. Of course I am not talking about pot. My point was clear, prohibition is a false choice and it is one that is empty in terms of its promises. Does everything really need to be explained?
oh way more draconian. Look up the legal history of coffee for one. One oddity in tobacco is medwakh and the story behind that stuff is one of draconian laws.
Am I correct in assuming they are scheming to remove the ability to purchase, not actually smoke it?
Something about this reminds me of when governments talk about implementing a huge tax but then really introduce a fairly high tax instead. Making it look like a compromise when the fairly high tax was the intended goal in the first place. I feel like that's what's going on here. When they add more anti smoking policies they will say hey it's not what we were planning on doing which was functionally outlawing it. It's funny this kind of stuff comes up all the time and then the reality almost always turns into something much less. One big hint this isn't going to happen are the positions of the people they're quoting.
Up here in the great white North its getting tricky:
- can't smoke indoors in public buildings including restaurant patios.
- can't smoke within 3 metres of a doorway or window
- plain (hideous) packaging - cigars come in cardboard boxes - not cedar anymore
- insane taxes ($11 C7D tin - duty is $30)
- some cities (Victoria BC) - can't smoke on benches or in public places (parks, beaches)
Basically you have to go hide in your backyard or garage and freeze your ass off. (Unless you are lucky like me - and belong to an old private club with a cigar lounge!)
An outright ban is difficult politically as First Nations leaders will lose there collective minds - tobacco is a sacred herb. But - they sure as heck make it as hard as possible.
Pot? No problem......
- can't smoke indoors in public buildings including restaurant patios.
- can't smoke within 3 metres of a doorway or window
- plain (hideous) packaging - cigars come in cardboard boxes - not cedar anymore
- insane taxes ($11 C7D tin - duty is $30)
- some cities (Victoria BC) - can't smoke on benches or in public places (parks, beaches)
Basically you have to go hide in your backyard or garage and freeze your ass off. (Unless you are lucky like me - and belong to an old private club with a cigar lounge!)
An outright ban is difficult politically as First Nations leaders will lose there collective minds - tobacco is a sacred herb. But - they sure as heck make it as hard as possible.
Pot? No problem......
Black markets for Tobacco are already a thing all over the globe including both here in the states and most other countries. All this kinda thing is going to do is increase the possible profit bringing in new scaryier class of criminals and allowing those controlling the black market to upgrade production, weaponry, tactics, and distribution locations with an uncontrollable ferocity?
Banning vs. Taxing the heck out of it ....
This is what saves tobacco in the United States. States need the revenue from their outrageous tobacco taxes. I grew up in California and live in Colorado, both states that are Democrat or are trending that way. Colorado instituted a 40 percent tax on all tobacco and the state needs that money for pet projects. California, a virulently anti-smoking as it is, has been living off tobacco taxes for decades. The Golden State still takes the money and runs.
Tobacco ain't going anywhere. It's just a matter of how much you want to pay. I'm good to go, regardless.
This is what saves tobacco in the United States. States need the revenue from their outrageous tobacco taxes. I grew up in California and live in Colorado, both states that are Democrat or are trending that way. Colorado instituted a 40 percent tax on all tobacco and the state needs that money for pet projects. California, a virulently anti-smoking as it is, has been living off tobacco taxes for decades. The Golden State still takes the money and runs.
Tobacco ain't going anywhere. It's just a matter of how much you want to pay. I'm good to go, regardless.
If there is anyplace it can work it is a remote Island like New Zealand (or even continent like Australia). As for the statistical data, none of it is reliable and policy makers never seem to check weather they achieved their stated goals anyway. Besides, this is not about health but about neo-puritanism, something which NZ and AUS seem to suffer from quite badly (despite their hedonistic and fun loving image).
I am guessing the ban is just on purchase, not on consumption, so you raise an interesting point. 2025 is not so far away, so what will be the response when it turns out young people are still smoking (as is inevitable)?
I find it interesting that the world is increasingly tolerant of Marijuana - to the extent that in London you can pretty much smell skunk wherever you go (even though illegal), but the idea of a cigarette is somehow anathema. I think that this conflict will be where the anti-smoking tyranny hits a wall and comes to an end - it would be hard to legalise pot, and allow pot-cafes and so on, whilst at the same time making tobacco effectively illegal. EDIT: I notice people saying not to talk about p-o-t, so apologies if I have transgressed.
Anyway, the NZ ban probably won't work and will just create a massive black market, and at some point make smoking cool again for the kids anyway, and so prove entirely counter productive and dissuade any other country from trying the same. This might be wishful thinking - I've been let down (especially by increasingly dull and insipid younger generations) before. This is what happens when the kids stop listening to Rock 'n' Roll.
It just happens with every drug... Black markets leading to lower quality, higher prices, and overall higher health risks (I think) than by informing and educating people on the best habits of consumption...
Hopefully, homegrown tobacco and blending will remain legal and people will go that way, recovering the tobacco culture and moving away of industril cigarettes.
Hopefully, homegrown tobacco and blending will remain legal and people will go that way, recovering the tobacco culture and moving away of industril cigarettes.
...and when tobacco is gone, something else will be targeted.
Incrementally, in every country everywhere.
The root problem is that a percentage of humanity wants to be in charge, cannot stand not being in charge, feel they absolutely must be in charge, and never---ever---stop trying to be in charge.
The mechanisms don't matter, the pretext doesn't matter, the science or logic or common sense or anything else doesn't matter... The only non-variable in the equation is EXPRESSING CONTROL. Being in charge.
Those who are happy with having their lives controlled by such creatures are invariably recruited to assist in tightening the screws on those who aren't.
It has always been this way. Humans don't change, only the technology they use does.
The 21st century catch is there's no where left for the fed-up to go. Putting your stuff on a ship and sailing over the horizon, or piling it into a wagon and heading West is no longer possible.
Quite the opposite, in fact. Today's digital world makes escape essentially impossible, and the tracking of dissenters easy.
Good luck, kids.
Incrementally, in every country everywhere.
The root problem is that a percentage of humanity wants to be in charge, cannot stand not being in charge, feel they absolutely must be in charge, and never---ever---stop trying to be in charge.
The mechanisms don't matter, the pretext doesn't matter, the science or logic or common sense or anything else doesn't matter... The only non-variable in the equation is EXPRESSING CONTROL. Being in charge.
Those who are happy with having their lives controlled by such creatures are invariably recruited to assist in tightening the screws on those who aren't.
It has always been this way. Humans don't change, only the technology they use does.
The 21st century catch is there's no where left for the fed-up to go. Putting your stuff on a ship and sailing over the horizon, or piling it into a wagon and heading West is no longer possible.
Quite the opposite, in fact. Today's digital world makes escape essentially impossible, and the tracking of dissenters easy.
Good luck, kids.
It has always been this way. Humans don't change, only the technology they use does.
The 21st century catch is there's no where left for the fed-up to go. Putting your stuff on a ship and sailing over the horizon, or piling it into a wagon and heading West is no longer possible.
Quite the opposite, in fact. Today's digital world makes escape essentially impossible, and the tracking of dissenters easy.
Good luck, kids.
I am not quite as bleak about it as you - these things tend to work in cycles. Prohibitionism started up in the 1880s, ran it's course in about 50/60 years, then from the 30s untill the 90s governments tended not to interfere in matters of personal choice. There have been tobacco bans before, and the current puritanism will abate, I just hope it happens before I am too old and decrepit to enjoy it.
Is that a twist in your pocket or are you just happy to see me?
