New Peterson - draft hole too high?

[Ryszard]

I just bought a new Peterson Kinsale XL15 (bent bulldog shape), the draft hole seems unusually high for me.
Would you consider this an acceptable height for a draft hole or should I return the pipe?

I'm just worried about too much tobacco residue and the bottom part constantly not being smoked turning the pipe sour.

Thanks in advance!

 

[sandollars]

Peterson is notoriously negligent about their alignment of late. I have several that one could not pass a pipe cleaner through from stem to bowl for love or money. They are aware of it and don't seem to care. Mine all smoke well though.

If it were a Castello or Dunhill that had this problem I would say return it but Peterson's are almost all off a bit

I it were me, I would just keep it clean and you won't have a problem.

 

[warren]

I'm all about how good the smoking experience is. How were the first couple of bowls? If good ... I'd not worry about cosmetics. If it isn't satisfactory after a few bowls, toss the pipe and look for something more to your liking. The hole doesn't look particularly misplaced to me.

 

[seldom]

That drilling is way off, judging by the third photo (looking into the mortise). I would return it. Unless you already smoked it.

 

[cosmicfolklore]

I don't mind mine being drilled a little high to prevent it from gurgling, but that is ridiculous. Of course the Peterson Protection Thugs will be along shortly to tell us that we are all imagining problems with Petersons, and that they are all perfect.

 

[Ryszard]

I haven't smoked it yet and I'm leaning more towards returning it. It cost me around 100$, so just giving it a trial smoke and voiding my return right is out of the question for me. Moreover, for like 30$ extra I can buy a Savinelli which has proper quality control. I've just checked all my pipes and none have the draft hole drilled that high and unprecise.

Thanks everyone for the input!

 

[wolflarsen]

Good grief!
What a miserably pathetic drill job. They really should be ashamed that something that crappy made it out into public. If I were them I'd be so embarrassed that I would immediately send you a new pipe and your money back.

 

[mikethompson]

Looks like it was marked where it was supposed to be drilled too.

 

[burleyboy]

I'd definitely send it back. I bet, it neither passes a cleaner...

 

[cosmicfolklore]

When I had read that Smokingpipes was stepping in to save Peterson... I likened it to someone stepping in to save the Edsel. Edsel guys, like Pete guys are a devout group... but come on, they've been crap for so long... pull the plug and let granny go with some dignity.

 

[Ryszard]

Thanks for the feedback, everyone. I've decided to return the pipe and have sent e-mails with photos to both the reseller and Peterson themselves. I'll probably invest the money in a Savinelli instead, this was simply disappointing and I'm not going to take a gamble getting another Peterson. ?

P.S Peterson has just replied: "As for the specific issue, yes the air hole could have been drilled more clearly, but we don't think is too high. If drilled where is the mark in the mortise, the hole in the chamber would have been misplaced causing smoking issues."

 

[burleyboy]

[...] the air hole could have been drilled more clearly, but we don't think is too high [...]

What shall that mean? Iguess, they do not know that themselves...

 

[ray47]

Good decision to send it back. You'll have better luck with Savinelli. I have a Peterson Dracula that is drilled high and I regret not sending it back to SP. SP should be checking the Petersons when they come in and return them if the drilling is high. Their just passing on the problem and that's not good for customer relations.

 

[prndl]

Disclaimer first. I've owned but 4 Petes, 1 system and 3 nons. In that limited experience, the hole on the bowl side (the first two pics) does seem a bit high.

That said, the hole in the shank portion (bottom pic) looks just like a normal Pete to me (or, at least, like the few Pete's I've owned). All four of mine had either a sump on the system or the dimpled beginning of a sump on the nons directly in the center of shank, with the draft hole directly above.

Anecdotal? Someone with a few more Pete's could tell a better story.

 

[bnichols23]

Looks like it was marked where it was supposed to be drilled too.

And believe me, Mike knoooowwwws about Peterson drilling! }

 

[swilford]

<quote>That said, the hole in the shank portion (bottom pic) looks just like a normal Pete to me (or, at least, like the few Pete's I've owned). All four of mine had either a sump on the system or the dimpled beginning of a sump on the nons directly in the center of shank, with the draft hole directly above.</quote>

This. More or less all factory pipes--Dunhill, Peterson, Savinelli, Chacom, etc--will have high draft hole placement in the mortise on deeply bent pipes. In order to figure out why this is, all you need to do is take a ruler edge (or drill bit) and set it next to a pipe and see where the angle needs to be in order to match up the bottom of the chamber with the end of the shank. If you want a couple of really good examples of this that aren't from Peterson, look at the Dunhill 26 shape. It's also true of the Savinelli 614 shape, but the shank and mortise are smaller and therefore it's less obvious. These are good examples because of how extreme the bend is and how radical the placement of the draft hole in the mortise needs to be.

There are ways this can be ameliorated (ramping the draft hole at the back of the mortise), but it takes considerable technical skill and time to do so and is pretty much only seen on artisan pipes (of course, there are some minor exceptions to the above, but this is broadly true). Ramping only takes you so far, though, so many artisans (Nanna Ivarsson and Jess Chonowitsch most notably) simply won't make anything deeply bent, while others will contrive faux-mortises in shank extensions to get around the problem. But, regardless, almost all makers*--factory or otherwise--are faced with putting a straight drill bit through something curved. The degree of the curve (and other compensatory techniques) determines the placement of the draft hole.

As for the drilling in the chamber, I can't really see well enough to tell what's going on there, so I'm not going to speak to that.

One other thing worth noting:

I'm not sure where the pipe was purchased (and it sort of doesn't matter), but Peterson hasn't made a Kinsale series pipe in a couple of years now, well predating Laudisi's acquisition of Peterson. I'm not sure if that's relevant given the above.

*Ser Jacopo has a curved drilling rig that eliminates this problem, but has a tendency to introduce others (really gigantic draft holes, which aren't a problem for some, but are for others, depending on tobacco preferences). Smio Satou has this bizarre contraption he created to solve this problem; I still don't fully understand how it works even though I've seen the tool and the result. Net-net, creative solutions involving curved drilling are probably a good thing, but it's really fiddly, so either requires a lot of time and care, or can have some odd results because the drill bit more easily strays during drilling.

 

[Ryszard]

swilford, thank you for the input. The pipe was purchased in the UK.

Regardless of the issue at hand, here's my two cents on their customer service.

What shall that mean? Iguess, they do not know that themselves...

It doesn't make sense at all. In the beginning of the e-mail they apologise to me and explain how they are still in the first year of new management and constantly trying to improve their quality control and whatnot.

Then they admit that it could be better, but deliver this in a "suck it up" fashion that left me speechless. I mean either you deliver a solid product and good customer service, or you don't. But asking for the customer's understanding that a new management took over and at the same time telling them that both quality control isn't that great yet and that the product is not good, but not bad enough to fix... that is just bad customer service. Regardless of when the product was made, they inherited the responsibility for those products and customers by taking over the company.

Pity, I'm returning the pipe - if not for the quality issue, then for the customer service received.

 

[lawdawg]

P.S Peterson has just replied: "As for the specific issue, yes the air hole could have been drilled more clearly, but we don't think is too high. If drilled where is the mark in the mortise, the hole in the chamber would have been misplaced causing smoking issues."

Total B.S. excuses from Peterson here. It is entirely possible to drill a draught hole on a half bent pipe (or even a 3/4 bent) right in the middle of the mortise, which is where it belongs, and where it is generally located on well-made pipes, including many relatively inexpensive factory pipes. I have one Pete that I really love (a straight apple army mount) but won't buy a bent pipe from Peterson because of their lazy drilling.

 

[thesillyoldbear]

Hey guys,

Sykes has already posted here, but Just a couple of notes to speak more broadly.

1) Regarding the height itself, do bear in mind that bent pipes — especially bent factory pipes — are always going to be on the high side. This one might be a smidge higher than normal, but from what I can see it's nothing that should cause any issues.
@piperinthewoords - That being said, if you're still unhappy with it, do return it. Pipes are an investment and a companion, and you should be comfortable with it in both regards.

2) Kinsales haven't been made by Peterson in some time, let alone in the 13 months we've been its caretakers. From what I'm seeing, some of you feel like we're not listening, but let me assure you this is not the case. We don't always make a public statement, but we monitor the forums, take notes, and aim to take criticism in the way that we hope it is meant — constructively. You said you were unhappy with the new bowl coating we rolled out for the St Patrick's Day 2019, so we reformulated it and came up with something new again.

That being said, we can't do that with pipes we just don't make anymore, or that left the factory before we came into the picture. We're many things, and some of us wear quite a few hats, but a company of John Titors we are not. Some retailers and distributors are going to be sitting on inventory they purchased pre-acquisition, and that may take some time to cycle through.

In the meantime, we're going to keep striving to improve both the brand and the pipes. Improving QC, improving processes, and finding new suppliers where needed. Most importantly, we're going to continue to listen. So thank you, your feedback is appreciated and we promise to always take it to heart.

 

[swilford]

Total B.S. excuses from Peterson here. It is entirely possible to drill a draught hole on a half bent pipe (or even a 3/4 bent) right in the middle of the mortise, which is where it belongs, and where it is generally located on well-made pipes, including many relatively inexpensive factory pipes. I have one Pete that I really love (a straight apple army mount) but won't buy a bent pipe from Peterson because of their lazy drilling.

I first read it as XL315 (which doesn't exist in Kinsale, but is the same shape as the XL11 and Sherlock Holmes Original), not XL15. On a pipe with this much bend, it should have been a bit above the center in the mortise, but not as high as it is in the photo. My mini-treatise on drilling stands; this pipe was higher in the mortise than it needed to be.