New FDA Nicotine Restrictions

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sardonicus87

Lifer
Jun 28, 2022
1,462
14,623
37
Lower Alabama
One thing specifically for smoking cigarettes is it helps with symptoms of Parkinson's disease, but that isn't the nicotine specifically and is only affective if you inhale the smoke (so chew, snuff don't help, pipes and cigars don't help unless you inhale), they think it has something to do with oxygen deprivation or the carbon monoxide.

Obviously not efficacious as a treatment for Parkinson's disease.

There's long been suggestions of looking into a nicotine based medication for the negative and cognitive symptoms of various mental health disorders, but nothing's come of it so far. I guess nobody wants to work on it because "cigarettes/tobacco are evil", and anything connected to tobacco is evil by the transitive property of "muh feelz" or something.

Nicotine by itself isn't that harmful though, not any more than most anything else at any rate. It's the dose that determines medicine vs poison. Either way, regulating nicotine is dumb... sure it's addictive, but it's been studied that theoretically, it's not terribly addictive by itself (about on par with caffeine), it's extreme addictiveness comes when it's co-administered with MAOIs, which the tobacco plant has naturally and can be found in tobacco smoke, or so I've read before. Nicotine gets a bad rep by association.

So they're potentially regulating one of the least-harmful aspects of cigarettes and it may not do much to decrease their addictiveness.

And make no mistake, using tobacco for health benefits is not efficacious at all, you'll do more harm than any benefits you might get, and many of the benefits can be had in greater amounts and with less risk through other means, there's very few things that nicotine (not tobacco, but nicotine itself) is the best thing for (cognitive and negative symptoms of severe mental illness the only one I am aware of which there isn't any currently known other option that has any effect). I'm not saying tobacco is beneficial for your health by any means, far from it. I just mean to point out how dumb a lot of this crap is. It's a personal choice that consenting adults should be allowed to make as it mostly only harms the self (especially compared to other substances people can consume, the social harm is actually relatively low, thanks in part to public smoking bans where people who choose to not use tobacco aren't subjected to secondhand smoke like they were in times past).
 
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Jun 9, 2018
4,637
15,020
England
Sounds counter productive from a health aspect. It seems to me that a lot of people would end up smoking more to get the same nicotine effect. Nicotine is not the primary health risk from inhaling cigarette smoke but rather the carcinogenic organic stuff (tar) adhered to the smoke particles. More net exposure to this component equals more health risk. I wonder if there has been an uptick in smoking related health issues in the EU since 2004. Maybe not a long enough time scale to see the effect yet.
I still smoke cigarettes. Since they introduced these nicotine limits I just cut about half a centimetre off the filter with a pair of scissors. Makes the cigarette stronger. If I'm out and about I just crush the filter between my thumb and forefinger which has the same effect. I tried filterless cigarettes but I didn't like them.
 

Zamora

Lifer
Mar 15, 2023
1,027
2,681
Olympia, Washington
Does nicotine have any documented health benefits that someone might want to prevent ? Just curious ... 🤔
Supposedly it can aid digestion, the notorious thuốc lào tobacco is smoked after meals for that reason and Czar Alexander II smoked a hookah heavily to treat digestive issues. I have no idea if there's any medical support for this but the fact Vietnamese peasants and a Russian Czar reached the same conclusion certainly means they could've been on to something.
 

BingBong

Lifer
Apr 26, 2024
1,746
7,574
London UK
It's a VITal AMINe, B3. It's why they put Niacin (nicotinic acid) in cornflakes and bread.

As ever, some cult or other has the megaphone and we're all supposed to join.

NB: back in the day, Capstan Full Strength cigarettes had 3.39mg in each. Fierce reputation, they got reduced to 1mg (EU regs) and then manufacture ended.
 
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Briar Lee

Lifer
Sep 4, 2021
5,275
15,129
Humansville Missouri
What the government found about low tar and nicotine cigarettes was people smoked more to get their nicotine fix.

The rule isn’t published yet, and litigation will drag on for maybe a decade.

I’m betting on big tobacco.:)

The threat to our smoking is we are turning into social lepers.

We oughta said it was good medicine, then they’d open up tobacco dispensaries.:)
 

woodsroad

Lifer
Oct 10, 2013
13,199
22,998
SE PA USA
Sounds counter productive from a health aspect. It seems to me that a lot of people would end up smoking more to get the same nicotine effect. Nicotine is not the primary health risk from inhaling cigarette smoke but rather the carcinogenic organic stuff (tar) adhered to the smoke particles. More net exposure to this component equals more health risk. I wonder if there has been an uptick in smoking related health issues in the EU since 2004. Maybe not a long enough time scale to see the effect yet.
Stop making sense, man.
 

leonardw

Starting to Get Obsessed
Dec 30, 2011
194
771
Forcing reduced levels of nicotine in tobacco has been the FDA's stated objective going back to around 2017. One company, 22nd Century, based their business model on the patents for growing tobacco with almost no nicotine. About a year or so ago they received approval to launch a cigarette brand called VLN (Very Low Nicotine). They are almost bankrupt and their stock has lost 99.99% of its value in the past couple of years.

If the regulations were ever implemented, it would effect all tobacco products, and would essentially eliminate the industry. The FDA has not finalized the rule and likely never will. If they did try to implement it, they would be in court for the next 100 years.
 

boston

Part of the Furniture Now
Jun 27, 2018
569
1,305
Boston
I'm hedging my bets a little bit. I've collected tobacco for 20 years and have a reasonable celler but recently purchased more 1792 and for the first time some Cobb plug. If pipe tobacco becomes more regulated, I just won't need to deal with it.
 
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Briar Lee

Lifer
Sep 4, 2021
5,275
15,129
Humansville Missouri
Forcing reduced levels of nicotine in tobacco has been the FDA's stated objective going back to around 2017. One company, 22nd Century, based their business model on the patents for growing tobacco with almost no nicotine. About a year or so ago they received approval to launch a cigarette brand called VLN (Very Low Nicotine). They are almost bankrupt and their stock has lost 99.99% of its value in the past couple of years.

If the regulations were ever implemented, it would effect all tobacco products, and would essentially eliminate the industry. The FDA has not finalized the rule and likely never will. If they did try to implement it, they would be in court for the next 100 years.

The FDA supposedly completed regulatory review of the 2017 proposal to regulate and reduce nicotine levels 8 years later, on January 3, 2025. All this dates back to a 2009 law, which has been 16 years ago.

Litigation over any rule actually published, will take decades.

I think we all know about the near beer that alcoholics drink, but I had no idea there is non alcoholic boubon.


And there’s a good selection of non alcoholic wine.


As for me, I discovered when my wife got sick and quit smoking and I have no more time to clench a pipe for thirty minute smokes, that I’m just a hopeless nicotine junkie. Cigarettes are a rich source of vitamin N for us addicts.

My wife is improving and we’re going to plant a garden this spring, and I might try sone homegrown Virginia tobacco. There’s no way I can ever raise better tobacco than Buoy Gold is at $10 a pound in bulk.

But if I ever need my fix, I don’t want to mess with any nicotine cartels.


I’m too damned old to start a life of crime, you know?
 

Briar Lee

Lifer
Sep 4, 2021
5,275
15,129
Humansville Missouri
Halfwheel always gives level headed reporting, their cigar reviews are ridiculous but they always break down what's happening with legislation well without the sensationalism

In the middle nineties I discovered a flamboyant and eccentric personal injury lawyer named Richard who is the reason I’m comfortably retired today.

Dick was personal friends with a tobacco lobby lawyer and we met her in an elevator in a skyscraper in Kansas City during a settlement arbitration for our first multimillion dollar settlement.

She looked like a refuge from Town and Country and Cosmopolitan and Playboy magazine covers. Dick and her stepped off the elevator to chat and I tagged along behind, watching.

The entrance to the tobacco lobby lawyer’s three floors of the building looked like the entrance to Fort Knox, or the lair of Lex Luther. The opulence and security were astounding to me.

She eventually had to go, and walked through a pair of double sally ported bullet proof glass doors inside the offices.

Dick turned to me and said, your cigarettes and pipe tobacco are well defended, my friend.

I asked, what do the good guys offices look like?

He said, about like mine, except on a corner lot with electronic billboards.:)

I’ve not worried much about Big Tobacco ever since.
 

andrew

Lifer
Feb 13, 2013
3,139
632
Winnipeg, Canada
See it's funny in canada as they've tried to stop smoking by raising taxes to where it's unaffordable, a 25 pack is now between 25-30$ cad, has plain packaging and a warning label on every cigarette. Well as soon as plain packaging came in everyone started complaining the cigarettes tasted different. So the Indian tribes really ramped up production of untaxed cigarettes with no chemicals added, no plain packaging and no warnings on every cigarette to the point where I don't see anyone smoking regular cigarettes anymore and the government is losing shit tons of tax revenues because people have had enough.
 

Briar Lee

Lifer
Sep 4, 2021
5,275
15,129
Humansville Missouri
See it's funny in canada as they've tried to stop smoking by raising taxes to where it's unaffordable, a 25 pack is now between 25-30$ cad, has plain packaging and a warning label on every cigarette. Well as soon as plain packaging came in everyone started complaining the cigarettes tasted different. So the Indian tribes really ramped up production of untaxed cigarettes with no chemicals added, no plain packaging and no warnings on every cigarette to the point where I don't see anyone smoking regular cigarettes anymore and the government is losing shit tons of tax revenues because people have had enough.

Canada’s war on cigarettes has been successful in the reduction of smoking.

In ten years they’ve reduced sales from over 40 billion sticks to 20 billion.

But the diehards (like I’d be) that still smoke are buying illicit untaxed smokes at higher percentages, except in Quebec.


The untaxed price of raw, cured, but unaged tobacco is about two dollars per pound, or $4,000 per ton.

$4 worth of aged tobacco makes a thousand cigarettes. $4,000 worth of tobacco makes a million cigarettes.

And a fully automatic cigarette machine to make cellophane wrapped smokes costs much less than a big John Deere combine.

IMG_8098.jpeg

Our do gooders at the FDA know all this.

Which is why any proposed nicotine rule will be done with the consideration that Big Tobacco has to compete against black market smokes.

They’ve already whittled the cigarette smokers down to low levels.

The idea is kids won’t be able to exchange a lunch token for a package of smokes, like I could in 1972.

I don’t like it.

But I can always raise my own if I want.