New FDA Nicotine Restrictions

[woodsroad]

Let’s not throw the baby out with the bath water.

An agency like the FDA is essential. It vets new drugs for safety and efficacy. Without it, one only need check their inbox and read the hairbrained online ads for all manner of health scams that walk a fine line just below actionable claims. Read your history of pre-FDA medical proceedures that maimed and killed thousands. And that’s just the “D” part of FDA.

But as the honest, uninformed consumer (who here is an expert on cardiac catheters?) we are caught between quack scammers trying to sell us mercury pills to cure acne and sociopath bureaucrats clawing their way to the top of the regulatory food chain. That, my friends, is all of human existance in microcosm. Good and Evil, intertwined in an eternal ballet, each feeding off the other. One can not exist without the other, locked in a fiery embrace. Anyone seeking a pure existance, one where the government is all sunshine and flowers, with each individual’s best interest at heart, is engaged in a fool’s errand.

 

[brian64]

It vets new drugs for safety and efficacy.

It pretends to vet new drugs for safety and efficacy.

Fixed that for you.

 

[Richmond B. Funkenhouser]

It could be that the snake oil salesmen are more trustworthy than the FDA. It's a bad situation.

I rather not trust either one...

Wishing it wasn't true won't change it though.

The world God made for us is beautiful, but not perfect.

If seeing the reality stops you from seeing the beauty, then you're doing it wrong.

There is no utopia possible.

 

[woodsroad]

Nothing is perfect, humans least of all.
If believing in God helps you cope with that, more power to ya’.

 

[brian64]

Nothing is perfect, humans least of all.

I agree that perfection can't be the goal...but it's interesting how so many of the people who always want to defend these agencies are often the same ones who don't want to see them scrutinized too closely (not saying that applies to you).

IMO, for far too long these agencies have run amok with woefully inadequate oversight (at best) and are in dire need of not just scrutinizing but of being turned inside out and exposed fully for all the deeply rooted corruption that has developed over many decades.

 

[towhee89]

Let’s not throw the baby out with the bath water.

An agency like the FDA is essential. It vets new drugs for safety and efficacy. Without it, one only need check their inbox and read the hairbrained online ads for all manner of health scams that walk a fine line just below actionable claims. Read your history of pre-FDA medical proceedures that maimed and killed thousands. And that’s just the “D” part of FDA.

But as the honest, uninformed consumer (who here is an expert on cardiac catheters?) we are caught between quack scammers trying to sell us mercury pills to cure acne and sociopath bureaucrats clawing their way to the top of the regulatory food chain. That, my friends, is all of human existance in microcosm. Good and Evil, intertwined in an eternal ballet, each feeding off the other. One can not exist without the other, locked in a fiery embrace. Anyone seeking a pure existance, one where the government is all sunshine and flowers, with each individual’s best interest at heart, is engaged in a fool’s errand.

You got that right man

 

[woodsroad]

I agree that perfection can't be the goal...but it's interesting how so many of the people who always want to defend these agencies are often the same ones who don't want to see them scrutinized too closely (not saying that applies to you).

IMO, for far too long these agencies have run amok with woefully inadequate oversight (at best) and are in dire need of not just scrutinizing but of being turned inside out and exposed fully for all the deeply rooted corruption that has developed over many decades.

100%
It's part and parcel of the blight of polarization, which at it's root is corruption. These agencies, and their budgets, have been weaponized in support of the endemic corruption that permeates our political system. All that I am saying is, just as the beneficiaries of this myopic polarization don't want their misdeeds scrutinized, we need to be very careful when scrutinizing them not to neglect and dismantle the very important missions that these agencies were created for.

 

[Zamora]

Let’s not throw the baby out with the bath water.

An agency like the FDA is essential. It vets new drugs for safety and efficacy. Without it, one only need check their inbox and read the hairbrained online ads for all manner of health scams that walk a fine line just below actionable claims. Read your history of pre-FDA medical proceedures that maimed and killed thousands. And that’s just the “D” part of FDA.

But as the honest, uninformed consumer (who here is an expert on cardiac catheters?) we are caught between quack scammers trying to sell us mercury pills to cure acne and sociopath bureaucrats clawing their way to the top of the regulatory food chain. That, my friends, is all of human existance in microcosm. Good and Evil, intertwined in an eternal ballet, each feeding off the other. One can not exist without the other, locked in a fiery embrace. Anyone seeking a pure existance, one where the government is all sunshine and flowers, with each individual’s best interest at heart, is engaged in a fool’s errand.

I'm 100% with you on that. My issue with the FDA has always been that they neglect doing much of their duties (like turning a blind eye to e coli and salmonella) in favor of overreach bullshit like regulating pipes and cigars.

 

[Briar Lee]

Good government does for the people what they cannot, should not, or will not do for themselves.

https://museum.dea.gov/museum-collection/collection-spotlight/artifact/soothing-syrup

Public education needs common core with a paddle out hanging on the wall.

(In the first six grades we knew the teachers kept paddles in their desks. Miss Charlotte, hung hers right out there on the wall. She never had to touch it, and she seldom looked at it)

Thank you, Miss Charlotte, wherever in heaven you roam today.

She made sure each one of us, even (and especially) the slowest kid in the class, knew the gospel according to Upton Sinclair.

The Jungle - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Teddy Roosevelt, is the reason there’s not opiates in the cough syrups and sawdust in the coffee today.

The people cannot test their own drugs.

They should not experiment using quack cures.

And they will not ever learn on their own.

Now, we all know better than to smoke.

But if we do, it should not kill you for fifty pack years.

 

[rakovsky]

Good government does for the people what they cannot, should not, or will not do for themselves.

https://museum.dea.gov/museum-collection/collection-spotlight/artifact/soothing-syrup

Public education needs common core with a paddle out hanging on the wall.

(In the first six grades we knew the teachers kept paddles in their desks. Miss Charlotte, hung hers right out there on the wall. She never had to touch it, and she seldom looked at it)

Thank you, Miss Charlotte, wherever in heaven you roam today.

She made sure each one of us, even (and especially) the slowest kid in the class, knew the gospel according to Upton Sinclair.

Greetings Briar.
I like you and agree with your overall point about the basic value in having societal or government regulation of business, like for safety's sake.

If the cheap Chinese "Chang Feng" pipe that I got two years ago was made of a toxic, irritating wood like ebony, I wish that it had been stated on their boxes. I got awfully nauseous lighting it with a torch lighter, and almost every time that I smoked it I got a lip ulcer. As a beginner I did not understand the problems that some cheap woods cause, and kept thinking that the problem was my cadence, or that I was a beginner. I am glad Miss Charlotte did not hit the kids. She sounds kind. However I can't agree with schools or government having this style of discipline method. I believe that Upton Sinclair's humanitarian "gospel" would agree.

Wishing you the best.

 

[Zamora]

Greetings Briar.
I like you and agree with your overall point about the basic value in having societal or government regulation of business, like for safety's sake.

If the cheap Chinese "Chang Feng" pipe that I got two years ago was made of a toxic, irritating wood like ebony, I wish that it had been stated on their boxes. I got awfully nauseous lighting it with a torch lighter, and almost every time that I smoked it I got a lip ulcer. As a beginner I did not understand the problems that some cheap woods cause, and kept thinking that the problem was my cadence, or that I was a beginner. I am glad Miss Charlotte did not hit the kids. She sounds kind. However I can't agree with schools or government having this style of discipline method. I believe that Upton Sinclair's humanitarian "gospel" would agree.

Wishing you the best.

My aunt got me a Chinese ebony pipe for Christmas when she found out I smoke pipes, along with a pouch of Captain Black. Those mystery wood Amazon pipes pretty much exist to prey on new pipe smokers who don't do their homework and their relatives who don't know anything about pipes. I just sent a thank you text and thankfully was never asked if I've used it.

 

[rakovsky]

My aunt got me a Chinese ebony pipe for Christmas when she found out I smoke pipes, along with a pouch of Captain Black. Those mystery wood Amazon pipes pretty much exist to prey on new pipe smokers who don't do their homework and their relatives who don't know anything about pipes. I just sent a thank you text and thankfully was never asked if I've used it.

The market works with Supply and Demand. Maybe Chang Feng and other nonbriar cheap pipe makers don't know the problems that their pipes cause. 200 years ago, skilled pipe makers were still experimenting with wood types to figure out the best ones, and were using alternatives to briar (Ericaceae). Ebony is "durable wood" compared to a lot of wood types, but it's still toxic. So it's cheap for them to make, and such companies flood the markets online like they do with cheap plastic products. But unlike cheap plastic, it's really important that you have the right material for pipes. Amazon, Discount stores, and Ebay seem happy to offer these cheap pipes, not being aware of the importance of briar, or really knowing the ins and outs of pipes.

It seems like a good place for a regulatory agency to step in and say that pipe sellers should say what their pipes are made of because of the existence of toxic woods in some pipes. I've seen a list of woods and whether they produce toxicity with smoke, and ebony is on the list whereas briar is nontoxic.

It's thanks to online forums and discussions that I learned the importance of briar for pipe wood. It's rare to see serious informed pipe reviewers recommending cheap unknown wood pipes. I saw one Youtube video where a Chicago online pipe seller recommends Chang Feng pipes and another Youtube video where a well known pipe reviewer recommends Whitluck pipes that he says might be ebony. It seems that these reviewers should know better. I don't know what they are thinking.

 

[Zamora]

The market works with Supply and Demand. Maybe Chang Feng and other nonbriar cheap pipe makers don't know the problems that their pipes cause. 200 years ago, skilled pipe makers were still experimenting with wood types to figure out the best ones, and were using alternatives to briar (Ericaceae). Ebony is "durable wood" compared to a lot of wood types, but it's still toxic. So it's cheap for them to make, and such companies flood the markets online like they do with cheap plastic products. But unlike cheap plastic, it's really important that you have the right material for pipes. Amazon, Discount stores, and Ebay seem happy to offer these cheap pipes, not being aware of the importance of briar, or really knowing the ins and outs of pipes.

It seems like a good place for a regulatory agency to step in and say that pipe sellers should say what their pipes are made of because of the existence of toxic woods in some pipes. I've seen a list of woods and whether they produce toxicity with smoke, and ebony is on the list whereas briar is nontoxic.

It's thanks to online forums and discussions that I learned the importance of briar for pipe wood. It's rare to see serious informed pipe reviewers recommending cheap unknown wood pipes. I saw one Youtube video where a Chicago online pipe seller recommends Chang Feng pipes and another Youtube video where a well known pipe reviewer recommends Whitluck pipes that he says might be ebony. It seems that these reviewers should know better. I don't know what they are thinking.

During WW2 American pipe makers lost access to briar so they started experimenting with other wood types, notably manzanita. A lot of people got sick smoking those alternative wood pipes so once briar was available again they started stamping pipes as "Imported Briar" to ensure customers it was safe.

It's embarrassing those people recommended that crap, that's something I'd expect from a tobacconist who mostly sells cigars and knows next to nothing about pipes. The owner of my local B&M is like that, I overheard him tell a customer to break in a pipe with honey in the bowl and he didn't know about cellaring before I told him why I was buying so much LNF. Thankfully all the pipes sold there are either briar, cob, meer, or olive

 

[Briar Lee]

Greetings Briar.
I like you and agree with your overall point about the basic value in having societal or government regulation of business, like for safety's sake.

If the cheap Chinese "Chang Feng" pipe that I got two years ago was made of a toxic, irritating wood like ebony, I wish that it had been stated on their boxes. I got awfully nauseous lighting it with a torch lighter, and almost every time that I smoked it I got a lip ulcer. As a beginner I did not understand the problems that some cheap woods cause, and kept thinking that the problem was my cadence, or that I was a beginner. I am glad Miss Charlotte did not hit the kids. She sounds kind. However I can't agree with schools or government having this style of discipline method. I believe that Upton Sinclair's humanitarian "gospel" would agree.

Wishing you the best.

Dale Hudgens, was our drop out rate of the class of 1976.

Even Dale Hudgens, not only feared, but respected, and loved every one of his schoolteachers. And even Dale Hudgens, never once talked back to any schoolteacher, or bus driver, or janitor, or school cook.

Because we all knew the instant consequences.

Dale Hudgens was also, the only one of we 33 that moved to Humansville after we started first grade together in 1964.

Here’s the problem today with all public education.

Diversity then, was we wondered who went to the Catholic mission.

https://sacredheartbolivar.org/st-catherine-sienna-mission/

On the day we got the tour of the city utilities after the lecture on the aqueducts and sewers of Rome, Miss Charlotte took us all to St Catherine’s by appointment with the priest.

I remember asking the priest how the altar boys served communion like we deacons did at the Christian Church and it dawned on me, then and there, I’d never been cut out to be an altar boy.

And here’s the problem with duplicating a Humansville School.

You’d have to have all the school board members under the leadership of the exact same man who was the Superintendent of the local Christian Church, which in my day was my own father.

Once the dad blasted gubbermint found out how they were brainwashing even Dale Hudgens to respect everybody, and love the truth, they’d make sure and put a stop to that.

Every child in the Humansville School could read on a college level, before they turned them loose in the eighth grade to chose their own high school classes.

And the Jim Bakkers of this world, found them mighty slim pickings.

Thank you Reverend John Whitaker, wherever in heaven you roam.

John Whitaker (1842-1910) - Find a Grave Memorial

1853 Joined the Christian Church was an active member the remainder of his life. 1861-65 Served in the Union Army. 1863 Ordained a Christian minister. 1866 Married Emeline Earnest. 1871 Founded Weaubleau Christian Institute, served 29 years as President. 1873 Graduated from Union Christian...

www.findagrave.com

Whittaker’s methods produced a fine governor of the State of Missouri.

Mike Parson - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

My own mother taught Mike Parson at Wheatland, where Miss Lois taught the Seventh Grade.

Ask Mike, about how cruel his teachers were.

As my mother always said, if a schoolteacher can’t have a classroom where the children all run in ready to learn in the morning, she’s not worthy of her paddle.

She always complimented Mike Parson as the only high sheriff she ever taught that didn’t wear dark sunglasses, tight blue jeans, fancy cowboy boots and thought he was God’s gift to teenage girls.

And Mike would reply, I’m only the sheriff to get the health insurance, Miss Lois.

As I tell people, Mike Parson never has had his hair cut in a beauty shop in his entire life, and he’s not about to tie up his barber in Teresa’s basement.

If he did, Teresa would would make sure he woke up the next morning a hen, instead of a rooster.

 

[rakovsky]

It's embarrassing those people recommended that crap, that's something I'd expect from a tobacconist who mostly sells cigars and knows next to nothing about pipes. The owner of my local B&M is like that, I overheard him tell a customer to break in a pipe with honey in the bowl and he didn't know about cellaring before I told him why I was buying so much LNF. Thankfully all the pipes sold there are either briar, cob, meer, or olive

Zamora,

It's kind of humorous and disturbing at the same time. One of the more common pipe tobacco mistakes is smoking pipe tobacco out of a bad quality non-briar unknown wood pipe like a Chang Feng pipe.

Chang Feng Pipes - Windy City Cigars

Buy your Cheng Feng branded Tobacco Pipes online at a discounted price with free shipping! Learn all about them and order today!

windycitycigars.com

They are all out of stock so maybe the seller surreptitiously pulled them all from their shelves but kept the educational video up.

Just watching the channel's other videos, the presenter seems nice and smart and aware of the basics of pipe smoking, so I don't know exactly why they would sell these. Maybe they simply don't know that people like me have sensitivities to toxic wood. Maybe the pipes sell well because they look good and customers like me who didn't know better would rather pay a low amount for what they imagine is a fine, good looking pipe. But I had 6 problems with my Chang Feng Pipe: overheating, tongue bite, lip ulcers, nausea when I torchlit it, the shank got too loose to stay in the stem, the shank hole was too narrow or got too narrow due to heating. I tired of fix it jobs to keep the shank in the stem, and I didn't want anyone else to get poisoned from its wood, so I threw it out.

Last year I visited 20 tobacco shops in my area to see what kinds of pipes and blends they sold. 2/3 of them were discount shops, and they usually had the same type of inventory, like MJ-themed pipes: glass and small metal pipes, as well as non-briar ones like my Chang Feng pipe. In one shop, the clerk seemed spaced out but friendly enough to have a small chat about pipes. He happily showed me a few non-briar pipes with sexual sculptures.

I told him about my lip ulcers from my overheating non-briar pipes. He listened and didn't react much. I wanted to make friends with the clerk, so I said, "It must not be very common, or else people would not buy them." He laughed and said, "Yes." I did not like his response, but I dug myself into that stance in the conversation. Onice retail stores buy a pipe collection, they are interested in selling it as inventory instead of treating it like bad quality poisonwood.

 

[rakovsky]

Dale Hudgens, was our drop out rate of the class of 1976.

Even Dale Hudgens, not only feared, but respected, and loved every one of his schoolteachers. And even Dale Hudgens, never once talked back to any schoolteacher, or bus driver, or janitor, or school cook.

Because we all knew the instant consequences.

Dear Dale,
I like you and don't want to derail the thread because you are making good points about how at times government can be good. I feel pretty comfortable when I see my Grabow Pipe's words "Imported Briar" like Zamora talked about.

One thing that I can contribute to your POV is that it's common for people of your generation to think back fondly of how children in school seemed orderly in your young years. What those people aren't aware of is that there were tens of thousands of other orderly, respectful children going to schools that didn't have corporal punishment in those generations and earlier. Meanwhile, there were children going to schools more brutal than you described, where the staff imagined that harsh treatment was good.

NJ officially banned corporal punishment in 1872. I asked my grandfather, born in the 1920's, if his NJ public school had physical punishment. He told me "No, but the Catholic schools did," as if it were a scary thing for him to think about. He was the kind of person who raised his family to go to church every Sunday, and taught them to never drink or smoke. My parents also grew up in NJ and their schools didn't have physical punishment, and my Mom told me how much kids were respectful to teachers and that she was scared of teachers.

Meanwhile, my grandmother from another side of the famil;y who grew up in a farming community told me how she was scared for her little brothers who she cared for on her family farm when her principal walked the hall with a cane. Her male relatives chewed tobacco and used a spittoon.

My grandfather's and parent's experience shows that you can have a system of schools with orderly children and no physical punishment. It seems that those are much better schools for me because I wouldn't be so scared of my teachers. My grandfather, in his piety, told me, despite having cancer, that he had lived a "charmed life." So many people have hardships in their lives, but at least going to a school where you don't have to be worried about teachers beating you is a blessing.

At the same time, my grandmother's experience shows that you can have abusive teaching staff with an ideology dedicated to physical punishment. I think that from your perspective, you can imagine how some of those teachers could be going over the top in ways that they didn't need to. That is good because then you can start to see how some seemingly educated people justify severe treatment when it's actually harmful.

Sorry for getting off topic, I want to let you have the last word. To relate what I said to the topic, you were making the point of what model to use for society. Miss Charlotte's class sounds great in that she wasn't hitting the kids, and what sounds good about Rev. Whitaker is his piety. If you extrapolate the physical punishment part to a social model, then you get police with flexible metal batons beating unarmed civilians for infractions. And actually more abusive people are going to gravitate to those positions, while making justifications. It's not very nice, good, democratic, or happy.

Wishing you the best, friend.
God Bless you.

 

[Briar Lee]

My grandfather's and parent's experience shows that you can have a system of schools with orderly children and no physical punishment. It seems that those are much better schools for me because I wouldn't be so scared of my teachers. My grandfather, in his piety, told me, despite having cancer, that he had lived a "charmed life." So many people have hardships in their lives, but at least going to a school where you don't have to be worried about teachers beating you is a blessing.

Xxxxx

Missouri was the wild frontier in 1820.

The first white settlers to the interior settled Little Dixie, but they weren’t all Southerners.

Little Dixie (Missouri) - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Some were Ulster Scots.

Ulster Scots people - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

And a few of those, followed the Master.

Union Christian College, Merom - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Weaubleau Christian College - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

(Only partly revealed by the righteous and good Christians who labor on Wikipedia. )

Christian churches and churches of Christ - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

In Christian homes, the father has no part whatsoever in the care, feeding, nurturing and educating his children except he must set a good example and build Mama a new home.

Daddy must aspire to be a pillar of the Church and run for the school board.

Or Mama, will kill him if his own Mama does not first.

You see, Mama depends entirely and only on the local public school to teach her children to read.

Here is the problem with that cultural model in the wilds of the early Ozarks.

How does a young Miss Charlotte or Miss Lois attract a young man who will support her in the manner in which she utterly demands?

Well, they built one room school houses and had the local school board select from among the fair young maidens a schoolteacher.

And that job paid more than any other in the township, by far!

And when the teacher was married, another maiden was selected.

In time, some John Whiteacre (Whitaker) would found a high school and only those teachers with degree and experience were hired to teach. There would be an elementary school with six former Miss somebodies from the one room schools and the key teacher was the Seventh Grade teacher in one room in the High School and grades 8-12 were all electives. Men could only teach High School, no exceptions. (Whitaker Method)

Why the paddle, in grades 1-8 (later only 1-7)?

When my mother earned her first school position in 1943 she was 17 years old and was sent to a one room schoolhouse to teach children aged six to fourteen year old boys bigger than Miss Lois.

Ever see a 14 year old boy who’s not been raised in a good Christian home, around pretty young girls?

Miss Lois made a Christian out of one boy with a paddle on her first day, within five minutes, when he made a lecherous remark.

He grew up to be a minister, and he preached her funeral, exactly as she planned it to me, beforehand.

Now, the advantage to the paddle.

You couldn’t send kids home.

To put him in a corner made the other kids ridicule him.

Christian boys are perfectly behaved or I’d guess they’d die, or something. We grew up not needing a paddle. But those schools took in every religion and those that didn’t have any. Those schools taught kids, especially boys from bad homes, to respect women, or else. Some had never seen an educated, beautful, immaculately dressed, kind, loving, intelligent and willful woman in their lives before.

Here is where, they failed.

After graduating from those schools, the teachers assumed that anybody who saw a Jim Bakker would look up his record and not buy his snake oil coronavirus cures or prayer cloths or bibles sold as merchandise.

No, they all will not.

If it’s legal, people assume it’s a valid choice.

They should have whipped us, for the wrong answers.

The paddle was only sometimes, very rarely, used in exactly the same way every judge in America has a bailiff, with a gun and a badge.

Missouri has not banned corporal punishment yet, and worse, is a safe haven for the worst cults on the planet who call themselves Christian.

Missouri’s strong and early traditions of religious tolerance have had unintended bad consequences.

Jim Bakker’s new church, is in Branson.