My Local Tobacco Shop Does Not Want My Business

[freakiefrog]

I am a huge supporter of the Second Amendment and for CCL. I have a CCL and carry almost 100% of the time. I'm also a huge believer in that if a business doesn't want CCW in their establishment I respect that 110% doesn't mean I have to patronize their establishment. They made the decision to not allow CCW in their place, I then have to make the decision of do I want to leave my weapon secure in my vehicle and spend my money here or go somewhere else. Neither on of those is a demonstrous decision they are simply at face value. If it were me I'd leave the weapon in the car and go in and talk to the owner about it and explain that you'd like to spend your money in their place but would like to do so while exercising your legal right. But in the end the decision is with you..

 

[dochudson]

once more.. if you are truly carrying concealed what's the problem.. go in get whatever you need and move on. concealed is exactly that concealed.. no printing, no bragging, no flipping your jacket open to show off. unless the guy is frisking you when you go in he would never know. having that sign may be out of his control. Insurance, lease, etc.

 

[freakiefrog]

dochudson many states have it built into it that say that if a CCW permit owner disregards those signs and goes into the building any way and gets caught. They can in my State be charged with a felony and lose their ability to own have a CCW permit or in some cases even own a fire arm. You're right it may be out of the store owners control but I'd never promote a CCL holder ignore that and risk their freedom or ability to keep them.. Just don't shop there if its that important..

 

[hfearly]

Sorry y'all not getting my empathy. No need to "defend your freedom" while buying a pipe tamper. Don't blame the shop owner if you are too stubborn to part with your gun for 5 minutes ...

 

[judcole]

Writing as I do from England, I am utterly baffled by this thread.

I'm writing from Michigan, and it baffles me.

 

[troutface]

boustrophedon
Writing as I do from Colorado, I am utterly baffled that you still have a Queen. :roll:

 

[zonomo]

"Considering the mass shooting in CT a few weeks ago, you should have no problem respecting the wishes of the shop." I would respect the owners request and evaluate what's more important to me. My right to carry or my desire for the product being sold. I have coped the text from an earlier post because this tragedy makes me want to carry more than ever, not the opposite.

 

[radio807]

I would respect the owners request and evaluate what's more important to me. My right to carry or my desire for the product being sold.

One's right to carry and one's desire for a product are not mutually exclusive. If you want the product, then remove the gun. If you choose not to remove the gun and therefore not patronize the business, fine. No need to whine about it (I'm referring to the OP here).
You can't carry in a post office, so I guess you don't buy stamps. You can't carry in a school, so I guess you don't go into your kid's school for events or teacher conferences. You can't carry in a court house so I guess you don't report for jury duty. Given the fact that carry permit holders take off their firearms from time to time (at least they do if they're complying with the law), to single out a private business owner is just plain silly IMO. I agree 100% with the notion of respecting the wishes of the business owner. However, conducting a personal boycott of the business seems hardly an expression of respect.

this tragedy makes me want to carry more than ever, not the opposite.

+1 on that.

 

[yadan]

boustrophedon said:

"Writing as I do from England, I am utterly baffled by this thread."
Well, I am from Israel, and I think this thread is fascinating and contains several logical points of view. Personally, I agree with those who advocate respect for the wishes of the shop owner and don't see why it would be a big deal for a carrier to temporarily disarm himself - and I'm writing this from a country where lots of folks walk around (thankfully) with UNconcealed weapons (this often includes myself) as well as concealed.
Concerning the whole gun issue (in the U.S.), I think there is a much more encompassing issue you Yanks have yet to address - and it is not connected to the right to purchase and carry, but rather why the U.S., of all developed nations, has such an extraordinarily high rate of violent crime, and with that - such a high incidence of mass murder. Why is the will to inflict violent harm to others - using whatever method - so much more common (proportionally higher) in the 'land of the free and the home of the brave?'

 

[spartan]

Is it really necessary to make a snarky comment towards the United mutha f*ckin States of America?

You're post is off topic. Welcome to the forums.

 

[rhogg]

I am a hunter, reloader, collector, chp holder, and all around firearm enthusiast. My rights don't trump yours no matter how much I value them. If you don't wish for me to carry a weapon onto your property then that is your right, regardless of what I think of your opinions. You must respect others if you wish to be respected. Make friends first. Friends are more important to have than guns. Who knows maybe you can persuade him otherwise at a later date. Just my two cents.

 

[chopz]

if the shop owner at one time had some altercation in his establishment between two legally carrying patrons i'd understand his reluctance. who knows the mind of another?
i'm of the opinion that everyone thinks they're right, good and knowledgeable, and none of these 3 things are true. and if everyone realized that, starting with themselves, there would be far fewer problems in the world. but then, i'm wrong and bad and don't really know.

 

[tbradsim1]

I"ve tried not to get in this,?Yadan I respect your country, your countrymen showed us self defense when I was in the Navy, the reason we are so violent when stirred goes back to JOHN PAUL JONES. , ( I have not begun to fight) to the surrounded General in Baston who was asked to surrender, his reply. NUTS , Violence is how we settled our country, right or wrong we help people, who else gives aid when disasters strike the world, AMERICA, Rhogg, you are 100% right, your right does not trump anyone else's right GOD BLESS AMERICA. The old cajun

 

[crpntr1]

+100 Cajun

 

[instymp]

Brad, you need to start expressing your true feeelings & quit holding back! Say what you mean.

 

[fitzy]

The US has enough guns for almost every single man woman and child in the country(270M guns in the US). As an American I think everyone should have a gun in their home. I also think you have to look at the size of the country compared to the size of countries in Europe. Now if you look at this link below you will see the US falls in about the middle of the table of homicide rates with Africa and South America having much higher rates, Western Europe having slightly lower rates and Eastern Europe having much higher rates. I think the difference is that our unfortunate incidents are much more publicized.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate
Edit: Sorry for getting off track of the subject.

 

[zonomo]

One's right to carry and one's desire for a product are not mutually exclusive. If you want the product, then remove the gun. If you choose not to remove the gun and therefore not patronize the business, fine. No need to whine about it (I'm referring to the OP here).

Actually Radio, I think we're saying the same exact thing in essence. Either decide to remove and buy or decide to not remove and look through the window wishing you has some nice toboccao. If its that important, then buy somewhere else.

 

[zonomo]

has such an extraordinarily high rate of violent crime, and with that - such a high incidence of mass murder

I think this is an excellent question. I dont think guns are the problem here anymore then i think cars are responsible for the thousands of deaths per year in drunk driving homicides. So we can pass all the laws we want but that doesnt address the core issue, the moral break down in our country and the devaluation of human life.
Old Cajun, I hadn't considered the formation of our country being based upon violence so much as a willingness for violence to achieve freedom. Good point. I think to think about that some more.

 

[judcole]

I dont think guns are the problem here anymore then i think cars are responsible for the thousands of deaths per year in drunk driving homicides. So we can pass all the laws we want but that doesnt address the core issue, the moral break down in our country and the devaluation of human life.

According to the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration, an estimated 10,228 people died in drunk driving accidents in 2010. The number of drunk driving fatalities has been steadily decreasing over the past 20 years.

Drunk Driving Fatalities
According to the Center for Disease Control, the number of firearm homicides in 2010 was 11,078. Firearm Homicides Total gun deaths in 2011 31,940, up by 600 people from the previous year. Gun deaths
It looks like firearms kill a lot more people than drunk drivers. Indeed, they kill almost as many people as all sources of automobile deaths combined. (Note: I did not know this when I started my research.)

 

[freakiefrog]

@Jud Totally agree but when you compare the number of people killed in all auto related events in 2011 and the number of people killed via firearm's the number is scary close together.
In 2011 32,367 people killed in auto related events. Out of 62 million registered vehicles in the U.S. or roughly 1 death for every 2,000 car's.
Now for guns.
According to the Department of the Interior there are in 2011 "The estimated total number of guns held by civilians in the United States is 270,000,000"
Now 31,940 people killed in 2011 that one death for every 8500 guns. Now if you throw in all the illegal guns held by criminals that number would go way up. According to the DOI "The rate of private gun ownership in the United States is 88.82 firearms per 100 people". So there are enough guns in the us to have 88.82% of every man woman and child to have one.
So 1:2000 or 1:8500 which kills more people on average.
Are the deaths due to gun violence and accidents deplorable and heartbreaking? Most definitely. Do I as a law abiding gun owner wish to do something to see that number drop..YES!
But it's absurd to see that cars (not drunk drivers) kill more people on average by over 400% and yet car makers never hear a peep..
All I'm saying is that when looking at the numbers if it's truly the number of people who lose their life to something, then be fair across the board or people will whine.
Ok off my soapbox..time to pack a bowl..