Except there are labor laws and this isn’t 1903.
Musk Buying Twitter Part II
- Thread starter AJL67
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I wouldn't make it easy on my employer to get what they want (unless I had a new job already lined up). There's no way I'm going to just meet demands that lower my own personal standards or just "quit" so they can go find someone else at better pay. They can fire me though because if they really want me gone, I have equally earned my right to:
-My severance package which may cover 6-9 months worth of my future salary depending on the company
-My RSU options that are part of my compensation (though this is gone from Twitter going private).
-My health benefits for my family
-Unemployment collection if I end up needing it.
There is no chance I'm letting my employer off that hook if it seems like they are trying to reimagine their workforce. They are free to do it, absolutely, but I also have a claim to the financial and benefit compensation I earned by being an employee for the company.
I work off hours, weekends and holidays at times when it's needed, on my own decision because a certain project requires it. I'm not compensated for it but it's also not mandated through my boss.
-My severance package which may cover 6-9 months worth of my future salary depending on the company
-My RSU options that are part of my compensation (though this is gone from Twitter going private).
-My health benefits for my family
-Unemployment collection if I end up needing it.
There is no chance I'm letting my employer off that hook if it seems like they are trying to reimagine their workforce. They are free to do it, absolutely, but I also have a claim to the financial and benefit compensation I earned by being an employee for the company.
I work off hours, weekends and holidays at times when it's needed, on my own decision because a certain project requires it. I'm not compensated for it but it's also not mandated through my boss.
I have been super interested in this topic for the last two weeks. Unlike many of the posters above who seems to have taken sides already, I am trying to observe this as dispassionately as possible. I am kind of glad this is happening in Twitter / Musk. This would be an exciting management case study, and being so high profile it would be highly visible with more facts coming to limelight hopefully. However this continues to happen in business, but not with the focus of the world.
I would also recommend reading between the lines in the newspaper because even the best journalists maybe showing some bias. Here are my summarized facts so far.
1. Twitter operates in a space which is highly meritocratic- Where demand for talent exceeds supply by a very high margin
2. Just because it operates is a space which is meritocratic does not necessarily mean it is efficient. Financial performance of Twitter is poor and possibly not a financial rigor in operations
3. Highly skilled people generally work for an organization in their own terms. They always have jobs lined up and chooses to stay/not stay based on their individual as well as the company’s accomplishments
4. You cannot push highly skilled people. Stick never works. Carrot works better by a large amount (Carrot = Money, prestige, self worth)
5. Musk has been very successful in his prior endeavors so he is a proven businessman (Although an idiot engineer as I noted earlier)
6. Musk possibly has a short term tactics / long term plan
7. His short term tactics has all backfired as Twitter employees are all showing him fingers
8. Given his previous success he still can salvage
9. Musk is immensely wealthy so his motivations / future plan is not immediately clear to the general public
10. Musk is wealthy enough to write off his entire investment in Twitter
11. Musk is wealthy enough to run Twitter as per his values without any plan of a successful business model.
What will happen? I don’t know
Edited for grammar errors. If you find more don’t let me know
I would also recommend reading between the lines in the newspaper because even the best journalists maybe showing some bias. Here are my summarized facts so far.
1. Twitter operates in a space which is highly meritocratic- Where demand for talent exceeds supply by a very high margin
2. Just because it operates is a space which is meritocratic does not necessarily mean it is efficient. Financial performance of Twitter is poor and possibly not a financial rigor in operations
3. Highly skilled people generally work for an organization in their own terms. They always have jobs lined up and chooses to stay/not stay based on their individual as well as the company’s accomplishments
4. You cannot push highly skilled people. Stick never works. Carrot works better by a large amount (Carrot = Money, prestige, self worth)
5. Musk has been very successful in his prior endeavors so he is a proven businessman (Although an idiot engineer as I noted earlier)
6. Musk possibly has a short term tactics / long term plan
7. His short term tactics has all backfired as Twitter employees are all showing him fingers
8. Given his previous success he still can salvage
9. Musk is immensely wealthy so his motivations / future plan is not immediately clear to the general public
10. Musk is wealthy enough to write off his entire investment in Twitter
11. Musk is wealthy enough to run Twitter as per his values without any plan of a successful business model.
What will happen? I don’t know
Edited for grammar errors. If you find more don’t let me know
As many are categorized by labor laws as "exempt employees", there are no labor laws that protect Time and Pay. I am an exempt employee myself. Non-exempt employees have hour/wage protections.
Here is a question for all you folks that are smarter than me. Considering Musk’s extensive connections over seas, is it possible he is clearing the deck to bring in talent from say China or India at a much lower rate? The down time would have little long term damage if he brings back the “right” people’s accounts. He can gain followers back easy as can be with the right people posting again. Americans are crazy about knowing what Kim thinks or what outrageous thing Trump has to say. They eat this stuff up like ice cream on Sunday.
Yes, I have less concern for the affluent having employment problems. They have options and are smart enough to use them
Unfortunately what they "believe in" is enforcing an ideology through censorship because it can't compete in a free and fair marketplace of ideas...so I have no sympathy for them.
(Doubt I'm smarter than you.)
The proverbial "is it possible?" conjecture, suggested somewhat by the nice analysis from @cshubhra has been applied to nearly all of EL's verified decisions, to include his initial decision to even make the offer to purchase, e.g. was it his plan to do this or that, or fundamentally change the platform, or even shut it down?
My response: anything is possible. But, he has hinted that wherever it goes, ultimately it will be merged with the "X" concept he's been floating, which is some kind of all-encompassing digital leviathan, on the chalkboard of his mind.
I’m bowing out of this conversation.
I’m self employed and I couldn’t give a shit if Twitter turns into Jonestown.
Besides, I worked 20 hours yesterday and I have reports to write.
I’m self employed and I couldn’t give a shit if Twitter turns into Jonestown.
Besides, I worked 20 hours yesterday and I have reports to write.
good point. Seems like after people get that kind of money they feel like they have to keep making more, sometimes just because and other times because if they don't make more money people lose their jobs.
It's funny the court jester seems odd to modern people, yet the Musks of this world obviously might benefit from such a set up.
And he never specified what on Twitter was being "censored," either. Interesting.
Elon Musk is a brat. 44 billion dollars. Just the thought of a single human having 44 billion dollars and using it to buy Twitter instead of anything - ANYTHING - positive for the human race just makes me feel ill.
Oh absolutely...and that is strictly the perogative of the site owner.
But, unlike Twitter, it is (usually) not enforced in an obviously biased, one-sided manner...and he's not colluding with government agencies as we now know Twitter and the rest of "big tech" does.
"You can be a loving father and a hard worker who makes deadlines."
Not if you're never home, you can't, because you're kids won't see it, or experience it. You'll just be, at best, a cautionary tale.
Otherwise I don't disagree, but I also don't make a distinction in terms of how leaders treat their staff. People are not widgets and shouldn't be regarded and treated as widgets by any management that's worth being management.
I'm a demanding boss who gets results and I don't get that by browbeating, abuse, threats, or ultimatums. People who do that don't belong in management. They're not getting the best their team can do. And if you are delivering ultimatums you clearly didn't know what the hell you were doing in the first place or along the way to where you now find yourself. Congratulations on being incompetent.
There's no distinction between pipeline workers, or coal miners, or any essential pursuit, such as teachers, farmers, fire fighters, nurses, and doctors. They all deserve respect and their lives matter. And, we don't acknowledge, nor celebrate any of these people whose work is essential to our well being because why? They're not special enough?
Twitter employees, with the exception of their indentured servants, the work visa force, are going to be fine. There may be cuts in social media employment, thank goodness, but there are a lot of opportunities in the economy for people with coding talent. And the work visa force, if it comes to it, will also be fine, just elsewhere.
They'll do what I and many others have done when we've been knocked down, namely pick ourselves up, brush off the dirt and move forward. People with traditional jobs that are phasing out will have to do what other people like me have done, adapt, train, develop new tools. Welcome to nature. Adapt or die.
Bringing in overseas talent on work visa is a long standing practice with all the major tech companies. Twitter already has hundreds of them, and they're likely the bulk of the staff that didn't leave, because they can't. They are bound to and dependent on their sponsoring company. Moreover, any retirement plan savings that they make can be forfeited, as well as other penalties, if they leave.
My next door neighbor was one of these work visa employess in Tech until he finally got his green card last year. He's going to apply for citizenship because his dream was to become an American since childhood.
I just want to put it on the record that you are a super mensch.
Seriously.
I'd carry your bags any day.
Ahhh, man, thanks, but I always carry my own bags, because someone else might accidentally set off the detonator.
There is in the same sense that there is on Twitter or other websites, mostly a "code of conduct" sort of thing. You can't yell "fire" in a crowded theater because it gets you off. Here you can't viciously attack fellow members. And politics is banned because it's a proven forum killer. People with boundary issues hate this.
I don't think that my definition matters here. If we asked everyone to provide a sample, the results would be all over the place.
The fact is that without people to help curate the whole mess, internet discussion seems to trend toward devolving into a cesspool that few people (aside from the completely deranged) want to participate in. I expect that Twitter is just a matter of scale, in a lot of ways, from what we see here. The moderators here know this problem very well.
People will haggle over the details of how much moderation is necessary. But, if he really is a free speech absolutist who intends to launch an experiment on a large scale; If he had just sat down with Kevin from this site or a couple of moderators, he'd have saved himself a shit-ton of money over seeing if it works or not.
Maybe he's not as all around brilliant as his fan-boys say. Just really fucking smart in some things. It's a possibility that I guess we'll see the answer to in the coming years.
Then again, maybe he is Xenu returning...