Intractable Dogs...

[workman]

I hate dogs. Well I don't hate all dogs, but there are so many of them and so many are poorly trained that it's impossible to know which ones are cute and can be trusted and which ones are murderous. Which makes all dogs seem a threat.
Considering all this, people who walk around with a 200 pound beast on a leash are extremely inconsiderate and are striking fear into everyone they meet. My experience btw is that dog owners are less considerate of their fellow humans than they are of their dog. Which is understandable but not acceptable.

 

[Morrison Jeremiah]

Last year, a dog belonging to a ground floor neighbour was attacking a boy about 12 years old.
A woman came out from a couple of doors away and said, "Oh, what's the matter darling ?"
Turns out she was talking to the dog, she didn't care a s*** about the boy, and totally ignored him, even though he was panicked and in pain.
She has 3 dogs herself.

Still makes me angry even now when I think about her lack of of humanity.

 

[Aomalley27]

I hate dogs. Well I don't hate all dogs, but there are so many of them and so many are poorly trained that it's impossible to know which ones are cute and can be trusted and which ones are murderous. Which makes all dogs seem a threat.
Considering all this, people who walk around with a 200 pound beast on a leash are extremely inconsiderate and are striking fear into everyone they meet. My experience btw is that dog owners are less considerate of their fellow humans than they are of their dog. Which is understandable but not acceptable.

I used to be a letter carrier on a walking route. Learned quick to discern a safe dog and a dangerous one. Also learned that typical Mace has little to no effect on a dog. Switched to pepper gel (don’t have to worry about blowback due to wind) as well as a tire thumper my trucker uncle gave me.

 

[smokeymo]

It's not the whole answer, but I think rescue adoptions tend to be more selective. Breeders just want to sell the pups or kittens. Good rescue groups put the prospective pet owners on the spot. I was refused an adorable kitten because I was still working. The kitten wouldn't be socialized. I should adopt an older cat. Unless ... I'd adopt the kitten's brother to keep him company until I got home. I didn't want two kittens, but I thought it over and decided they were correct. It was crazy land at my house for a while. Not bad. But I had to escape to get my balance. But it was also wild fun. They'd dance on the ceiling for a while, then go to a hiding place and sleep. Soon, they skipped the hiding place. Pretty soon, we were like an ill-behaved fraternity, all over the place all the time. Older now, they keep us on their schedule and are good friends.

This is incorrect. The vast majority of rescues have behavioral issues.

People need to start treating animals like animals and not "part of the family"

90% of pet owners shouldn't have pets.

 

[smokeymo]

I hate dogs. Well I don't hate all dogs, but there are so many of them and so many are poorly trained that it's impossible to know which ones are cute and can be trusted and which ones are murderous. Which makes all dogs seem a threat.
Considering all this, people who walk around with a 200 pound beast on a leash are extremely inconsiderate and are striking fear into everyone they meet. My experience btw is that dog owners are less considerate of their fellow humans than they are of their dog. Which is understandable but not acceptable.

So you're scared of dogs.

 

[fireground_piper]

If my dog is not in our fenced in yard, he’s on a 6’ leash. I generally look at any non-certified working dog(police, search, disabled assistance, etc) as a potential to be triggered in the right circumstance and should be on leash if outside a fence.

owners who don’t leash their dog in public I consider amateurs and I certainly keep my distance from them as people.

Contrary to certain sentiments discussed, my dog is part of the family. He’s certainly more respectable than most humans I encounter and we take him everywhere with us and he’s an 80 pound Bassett hound. When we are near people that leash shortens to 3-4 feet or less.

 

[warren]

This is incorrect. The vast majority of rescues have behavioral issues.

People need to start treating animals like animals and not "part of the family"

90% of pet owners shouldn't have pets.

I'm guessing these generalities are simply your opinions, Or, can you support with statistical research?

 

[smokeymo]

If my dog is not in our fenced in yard, he’s on a 6’ leash. I generally look at any non-certified working dog(police, search, disabled assistance, etc) as a potential to be triggered in the right circumstance and should be on leash if outside a fence.

owners who don’t leash their dog in public I consider amateurs and I certainly keep my distance from them as people.

Contrary to certain sentiments discussed, my dog is part of the family. He’s certainly more respectable than most humans I encounter and we take him everywhere with us and he’s an 80 pound Bassett hound. When we are near people that leash shortens to 3-4 feet or less.

lol I don't leash my dog on walks and he's more behaved than 99% of dogs on leash. He's a hunting dog. He walks about 20 yards in front of us and when I tell him to come he comes. I can tell him to sit from from that distance and he will do it and won't move from that spot till i get there. He doesn't try to play with other dogs till I tell him it is ok. I can drop food on the ground right in front of him and he won't move until I tell him to do so. It is called training your animal.

Your Basset sounds very overweight and that is unfortunate.

 

[smokeymo]

I'm guessing these generalities are simply your opinions, Or, can you support with statistical research?

The last two are opinions. The first is a fact.

 

[fireground_piper]

lol I don't leash my dog on walks and he's more behaved than 99% of dogs on leash. He's a hunting dog. He walks about 20 yards in front of us and when I tell him to come he comes. I can tell him to sit from from that distance and he will do it and won't move from that spot till i get there. He doesn't try to play with other dogs till I tell him it is ok. I can drop food on the ground right in front of him and he won't move until I tell him to do so. It is called training your animal.

Your Basset sounds very overweight and that is unfortunate.

Perfect shape for his bread and frame. Even a well trained animal can be triggered to rip someone’s face off in the correct set of circumstances.

 

[smokeymo]

Perfect shape for his bread and frame. Even a well trained animal can be triggered to rip someone’s face off in the correct set of circumstances.

As a vet, 80 lbs is over 10 lbs too heavy for a Basset. If it is indeed purebreed.
And if the circumstances are that they are being attacked or their owner is being attacked, I would expect the animal to be aggressive. Otherwise you're simply incorrect and your irrational fear is clouding your judgement. It sounds like projection tbh. Is your dog scared of fireworks?

Edit: That being said, it probably is best to keep a hound on a leash haha. I used to have a bloodhound and that dog off a leash was mayhem lol

 

[cosmicfolklore]

My vet is our guy who gets called in to take down dogs by court order in our area. He explains that there is absolutely no such thing as a dog who won't get triggered. He says that it almost always people who have absolute faith that their dog is so welled trained that it won't go off on someone or another dog that has their dogs ordered down by the state.
Even our puggle, when asked if our dogs bite, I never say "no" because that one time that you are wrong... and you've given verbal consent, can mess up things extraordinarily in your life. I don't care what breed of dog it is, or if you are the dog whisperer, any dog can be triggered. In fact, anyone who is even close to being a dog whisperer would never put blind faith in a dog.

 

[smokeymo]

My vet is our guy who gets called in to take down dogs by court order in our area. He explains that there is absolutely no such thing as a dog who won't get triggered. He says that it almost always people who have absolute faith that their dog is so welled trained that it won't go off on someone or another dog that has their dogs ordered down by the state.
Even our puggle, when asked if our dogs bite, I never say "no" because that one time that you are wrong... and you've given verbal consent, can mess up things extraordinarily in your life. I don't care what breed of dog it is, or if you are the dog whisperer, any dog can be triggered. In fact, anyone who is even close to being a dog whisperer would never put blind faith in a dog.

Boy a vet who's job depends on dog attacks says that all dogs can get triggered? You don't say.
Nobody is claiming to be a dog whisperer. I simply know a trained dog vs an untrained dog. I know a bad owner vs a good owner.
Obviously a dog can be triggered. But with correct training, you can control what that trigger is and when it will happen. That's why there are guard dogs, working dogs, hunting dogs, etc. All triggered by a different set of circumstances. Bred for a purpose and trained with a purpose.

These people that have faith in their dog have it because they think their dog is nice and friendly, which I'm sure it is to them. Not because it is well trained. I refer back to my statement that 90% of pet owners shouldn't have pets. A dog's propensity to attack is based on training, not temperament.

 

[cosmicfolklore]

Boy a vet who's job depends on dog attacks says that all dogs can get triggered? You don't say.

I did not say that his job depends on this. You are assuming between the lines. He is actually the best pet vet in the area.

I'm sorry if I just don't believe you. I've worked with bird dogs my whole life. but, we will just have to agree to disagree.

 

[smokeymo]

I did not say that his job depends on this. You are assuming between the lines. He is actually the best pet vet in the area.

I'm sorry if I just don't believe you. I've worked with bird dogs my whole life. but, we will just have to agree to disagree.

I'm sorry if I don't believe you've worked with bird dogs your whole life. If you had then you'd know that you can train triggers (like gunshots) out of a dog.

 

[cosmicfolklore]

I'm sorry if I don't believe you've worked with bird dogs your whole life. If you had then you'd know that you can train triggers (like gunshots) out of a dog.

I, now, find it hard to believe that you've ever had a bird dog or hunting dog. It's damn near impossible to train that OUT of them. That is the first step to seeing whether a dog is worth the effort.
Sure, some efforts have been made to train them out of that, but it almost never sticks. I've seen more hunters having to spend the rest of the day tracking down their damned dogs because they tried. It is just much easier to train them early enough that they never develop a fear of loud noises. But, once they have it...

 

[smokeymo]

I, now, find it hard to believe that you've ever had a bird dog or hunting dog. It's damn near impossible to train that OUT of them. That is the first step to seeing whether a dog is worth the effort.
Sure, some efforts have been made to train them out of that, but it almost never sticks. I've seen more hunters having to spend the rest of the day tracking down their damned dogs because they tried. It is just much easier to train them early enough that they never develop a fear of loud noises. But, once they have it...

Yep, you start the training as pups. You're not going to be able to do it with a 3 year old dog. But if a pup is gun-shy you can almost always train them out of it. If you have a good trainer anyhow.

Edit: This is why I'll never get a rescue. Not unless it is under 10 weeks old.

 

[cosmicfolklore]

Yep, you start the training as pups. You're not going to be able to do it with a 3 year old dog. But if a pup is gun-shy you can almost always train them out of it. If you have a good trainer anyhow.

Edit: This is why I'll never get a rescue. Not unless it is under 10 weeks old.

Once again, from the world of hunting dogs, I don't ever run across people saying things like that, ha ha.
We will just have to disagree.

 

[telescopes]

I'm sorry if I don't believe you've worked with bird dogs your whole life. If you had then you'd know that you can train triggers (like gunshots) out of a dog.

I am not looking for an argument but it sounds like you are suggesting that nurture, conditioning, and training can overcome millions of years of evolutionary response.

I am curious... when can we apply these principles to students, LOL.

Push hard enough, exceed the parameters of the training, and I can't imagine anyone or anything breaking in one way or another.

You make a good case for animal trainer as all powerful god able to overcome all matter of instinct and evolutionary impulses.

There is a reason why those who use police dogs and guard dogs limit the type of contact their animals have with the environment.

And perhaps that is what gives the illusion that training and conditioning are absolute.

 

[smokeymo]

I am not looking for an argument but it sounds like you are suggesting that nurture, conditioning, and training can overcome millions of years of evolutionary response.

I am curious... when can we apply these principles to students, LOL.

Push hard enough, exceed the parameters of the training, and I can't imagine anyone or anything breaking in one way or another.

You make a good case for animal trainer as all powerful god able to overcome all matter of instinct and evolutionary impulses.

There is a reason why those who use police dogs and guard dogs limit the type of contact their animals have with the environment.

And perhaps that is what gives the illusion that training and conditioning are absolute.

The reason they limit their contact is so they don't pick up bad habits. If you were a pro baseball player you're not going to go join an after work softball league. It's not because you're going to revert to your barbarian roots and cut someone's head off...