Instant Sasieni One Dot Specially Selected Collection

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ssjones

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May 11, 2011
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Here's a quick way to bolster your Sasieni One Dot Specially Selected line, four at once!

http://www.ebay.com/itm/391670095299?ul_noapp=true

(it's a BIN so I don't feel bad posting an active link)
The One Dot was only used in the early 1920's, right?
Perhaps a little overzealous on the stem restoration (buttons rounded off)
I watch nearly all Sasieni's on Ebay and I can't recall any combination of One Dot and Specially Selected. (much less four by one seller).
s-l1600.jpg


s-l1600.jpg


 

dmcmtk

Lifer
Aug 23, 2013
3,672
1,709
Call me the eternal skeptic, but show me the pipes with the stems off, the tenon ends with or without the stingers, and the slot and buttons up close, for $3500.00.

 

sablebrush52

The Bard Of Barlings
Jun 15, 2013
21,003
50,319
Southern Oregon
jrs457.wixsite.com
Ditto on the stingers, etc. Not one patent stamp on any of them, either. They might be legit and they might be reissues done to death with a buffer.
Buying Sasieni on eBay is becoming increasingly dodgy, with later era "original" stems attached to older bowls, 1980's reissues, like the 8 Dot and "Specially Selected" reissues, being claimed as 1920's by either ignorant or unscrupulous sellers.

 

dmcmtk

Lifer
Aug 23, 2013
3,672
1,709
The other thing, is when I see "rare" pipes at high prices being sold from Italy it always makes me take pause. A lot of talented artisans in Italia...

 

dmcmtk

Lifer
Aug 23, 2013
3,672
1,709
Another thing, as I look at the shapes of these pipes compared to the 1930's Sasieni catalog shapes, they just seem off, particularly at the bowl/shank transitions. Although the shape numbers on the early One Dot pipes did change, when the town names were introduced, the shapes themselves did not change that much. Look closely at the poker being offered, compared to the Derby. Note the slight curvature of the bowl in profile, and the return at the bowl/shank transition, and additionally the straight stem of the catalog pipe, in comparison the the pipe offered.
sasieinifake-600x450.jpg


sas30derby-435x600.jpg


 

ssjones

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May 11, 2011
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I was a bit puzzled by the lack of a Patent number (I don't collect One Dots...)

But the Pipepedia page example for a One Dot is exactly the same as that stamping.

Without more provenance, of course they could be fake, but I think that would a very talented person to duplicate that factory stamping?
I guess we don't really have a Sasieni expert, like RD Field for Dunhill, etc. Sad.
1dot4b.jpg


 

sablebrush52

The Bard Of Barlings
Jun 15, 2013
21,003
50,319
Southern Oregon
jrs457.wixsite.com
Without more provenance, of course they could be fake, but I think that would a very talented person to duplicate that factory stamping?
The "Specially Selected" stampings, fishtail logo, football stampings and all, were recreated in the 1980's by the successor company fora reissue, so no real expertise is needed. I've seen these '80's reissues posted on eBay as 1920's pipes any number of times.
But, they could be the real thing. The poker is a Canterbury shape.
Maybe this one is legit:
Fishtail Ashford
But the size and spacing of the dots seem like a later era stem.
On the other hand, this pipe:
8 Dot Period Correct Dots
with the smaller dots and the elongated diamond with one dot more distant from the other three, looks like the real deal.
Buying a vintage Sasieni can be a real dodgy business.

 

dmcmtk

Lifer
Aug 23, 2013
3,672
1,709
But, they could be the real thing. The poker is a Canterbury shape.
? In the '30's catalog the Canterbury is a billiard, or shape 41 (which I always think of in the smooth finish, the Warwick).
30sascanterbury-435x600.jpg

Both those Ashford's look legit, though the finish on the Four Dot would cause me to pause. It's also the older of the two, with the Eight Dot having the 1928 Patent, which was a slightly different stinger as I recall.

 

ssjones

Moderator
Staff member
May 11, 2011
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Well, by provenence, I meant as in the one ad you listed, the owner says he bought the pipe new in the 1970's. Not exactly iron clad, but better than the Italian reseller.
The 1980's "Specialty Selected" pipes were all 8 Dots, right? (all the ads I saved were 8 Dots).

 

ashdigger

Lifer
Jul 30, 2016
11,391
70,250
61
Vegas Baby!!!
What's the difference between a modern 8 dot and a 1 dot.........laziness. After reading what I could find on the interwebs, I would say these were just limited edition modern pipes......not a bunch of rare one dots.
AND correct me if I'm wrong, and I probably am, but doesn't the "color"of the pipes worry anyone but me?

 

dmcmtk

Lifer
Aug 23, 2013
3,672
1,709
Correction, the dots on the Four Dot pipe Jesse listed is the post war (post Patent) pattern, so I would say a replacement stem.

 

ssjones

Moderator
Staff member
May 11, 2011
19,042
13,173
Covington, Louisiana
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Here's a One Dot, Patent represented as a 1920's pipe that definitely looks legit (has stinger, but not shown). Curiously, this has the double one dot, which the seller attributes to Sasieni muddying the water with Dunhill.
http://estatepipes.co.uk/shop/Sasieni-Specially-Selected-Double-One-Dot-Patent-Billiard-1143
As rare as some pipes go, this has to behigh on the scale. An ULTRA RARE and superb Sasieni Double One Dot Specially Selected Patent 1920's billiard. When we deconsruct the elements of this pipe it confirms its rarity both in availability and condition. Firstly, Sasieni made the One Dot pipes from the inception of the company in 1919 through to 1923, a period of 5 years. These are assumed to be the rarest of all Sasieni pipes due to their short production time. Joel Sasieni was forced to settle out of court with Dunhill over impending court action against their patent for using a single white dot. Unable to use a single dot any further, Sasieni started experimenting with different numbers of dots on the stem. This led to the introduction of the Four Dot and 8 Dot pipes (four on each side) lauded by collectors. The history of the Double One Dot is not widely documented, and what I have read on Sasieni history is contradictory. There is a catalogue which shows the Four Dot pipe appearing in 1924. I have also seen the exsitance of a One Dot pipe bearing an English town name, reported in pipedia.org as not starting until 1935! This pipe bears neither a shape number nor a town name and is simply stamped LG on the reverse of the shank, so this would suggest that the pipe dates to around 1923 and was probably one of the first experiments in numbers of dots used on the run up to the setlement with Dunhill, the scrapping of the One Dot range and the introduction of the Four Dot range. It is therefore likely that these Double One Dots were produced for an extremely short period making them even rarer than the fabled One Dot pipes. It is also written that the Specially Selected range were made from stummels that were personally chosen by Joel Sasieni himself due to the superb grain patterns. This pipe is no exception to the stunning grain that these pipes possessed. Furthermore the pipe is in superb museum quality having been very lightly smoked. The original screw in stinger (the reason for the patent) is still in place and the pipe hardly shows any signs of being used. The rim is still fresh and crisp, as is the nomenclature. There is no wear on the stem which still has a sharp button as the day it was made. The pipe comes in a Sasieni box and pipe sock although these are not original to the pipe. So if you are a collector of old English pipes, you will go a long way to find a better example of an ultra rare early 20th century example in such superb museum quality. I am proud to be offering this pipe on behalf of its seller.
After seeing the patina on this one, the four-pipe set is looking suspect (the color as Ash mentions is just odd)

 

dmcmtk

Lifer
Aug 23, 2013
3,672
1,709
AND correct me if I'm wrong, and I probably am, but doesn't the "color"of the pipes worry anyone but me?
Yes, amongst other things. Here's an example of a Specially Selected from the early 1920's. This actually is a rare example, a double Side Dot, after Sasieni lost the lawsuit over the One Dot brought by Dunhill, so 1922-23. I was involved in the sale of this pipe, it was sold for $1200.
sasieni-5022120-2-600x337.jpg


sasieni-5022120-3-600x337.jpg

This is the same pipe, pre-restoration, or as found, that Al linked to above.

 

georged

Lifer
Mar 7, 2013
6,096
16,714
Correction, the dots on the Four Dot pipe Jesse listed is the post war (post Patent) pattern, so I would say a replacement stem.
Everything else about it (that's visible in the photos, anyway) says original.
It then seems odd that someone who could do "copy an original" shaping work at that level would then screw up the dots... (the easiest part)
I cannot emphasize enough how difficult it is to nail that chunky-fat author swan neck shape. (The last KC contest was the author and it drove most of those guys crazy. VERY few entries pulled it off. Then double that difficulty if shaping the stem separately and no stummel-touching allowed.)
How reliable is the dot size and pattern thing, anyway? (Not a Sasieni guy, me)

 

dmcmtk

Lifer
Aug 23, 2013
3,672
1,709
We should have started the ask at $1500 not $1300. :wink: The pipe went to the Far East. My friend who found it only paid $20, so he was happy.

 

dmcmtk

Lifer
Aug 23, 2013
3,672
1,709
How reliable is the dot size and pattern thing, anyway? (Not a Sasieni guy, me)
Pretty reliable George. The elongated Four Dot pattern is seen on pre-war pipes with the "fish tail" Sasieni mark, and also post-war pipes with the patent mark and the post-war Sasieni script. The "square" diamond is "post-war", no patent, say ~ 1950 and later. Sorry for the short answer I'm cooking (or over cooking!) my dinner. :)

 
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