Instant Sasieni One Dot Specially Selected Collection
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I think that the boys at Sasieni must have had a sense of humor since they switched town names on several of their pipes. Here's a "Canterbury" poker and the shape is the almost identical to the one dot poker. Look hard and you can see the CAN of Canterbury stamped onto the shank.
Canterbury Poker
It's not just the shape of the diamond on that Ashford that gives me pause, it's the size of the dots, which are more like post 1950. It's possible that a stem from a later pipe was used to replace the original. I've got a WW2 Barling sandblast that was fitted with as factory Barling stem with "Barling Design" on the underside, making the stem at least 8 years younger than the bowl.
The seller of this one does not have the stinger:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Sasieni-Rare-Double-4-Dot-8-Dot-Estate-Pipe-NO-RESERVE-/201776621592?hash=item2efad2e818:g:ZrwAAOSw5cNYcTuS
I'm interested, but will probably get blown out, as usual with 8 Dots.
I messaged the seller of the four, One Dot set about the stingers, no answer yet. (not interested of course, just curious)
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Sasieni-Rare-Double-4-Dot-8-Dot-Estate-Pipe-NO-RESERVE-/201776621592?hash=item2efad2e818:g:ZrwAAOSw5cNYcTuS
I'm interested, but will probably get blown out, as usual with 8 Dots.
I messaged the seller of the four, One Dot set about the stingers, no answer yet. (not interested of course, just curious)
You are correct sir. The Hurlingham comes to mind. In the '30's it was the Rustic version of the Buckingham, a billiard (shape 55), it later became an Apple (shape 52) Yes, I would say the same about the size of those dots on that Ashford (and like I said, let me see the tenon) or to answer the easy way, I would not buy it, esp. at $850.
Al,
Take a look at the shaping on the stem of the 8 dot vs the Ashford with the "questionable" dots. They're very different. That would also give me pause. There's just something about that 4 dot that sends up flares for me.
Take a look at the shaping on the stem of the 8 dot vs the Ashford with the "questionable" dots. They're very different. That would also give me pause. There's just something about that 4 dot that sends up flares for me.
I've been lucky with the 8 Dots that I bought. With the exception of the 1941 8 Dot military, I never spent more than $100 for any of them, and most were under $50. Back then I used to scour all of the postings daily, looking for badly presented listings where I could recognize what I was looking at even if it wasn't listed as such. Got some great deals on Barlings and Sasienis that way.
About 60 years. And the "Specially Selected" loses all real meaning sine the stamp denoted pipes that Joel Sasieni personally selected from the production lins as being of superior quality. By 1980, Joel Sasieni was 34 years dead. So unless Joel's ghost was haunting the production line and levitating pipes, the stamp is meaningless.
Sable, that's actually my point. The modern versions did literally everything to make money, except produce a better pipe.
@sable - I'm watching the 8 Dot Patent, from your link (it didn't show up at all in my daily search)
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Sasieni-Rare-Double-4-Dot-8-Dot-Estate-Pipe-NO-RESERVE-/201776621592?hash=item2efad2e818:g:ZrwAAOSw5cNYcTuS
As far as the 1980's Specially Selected pipes and the quality, I only one collector who has one and it is unsmoked. So, I can't say how the quality compares to other eras. They may be a great pipe (and probably are), they aren't something that I'd want to acquire.
Again, the 1980 reissues are all 8 Dot pipes, I've never seen a One Dot. Most of the 1980 era pipes are hallmarked (all?)
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Sasieni-Rare-Double-4-Dot-8-Dot-Estate-Pipe-NO-RESERVE-/201776621592?hash=item2efad2e818:g:ZrwAAOSw5cNYcTuS
As far as the 1980's Specially Selected pipes and the quality, I only one collector who has one and it is unsmoked. So, I can't say how the quality compares to other eras. They may be a great pipe (and probably are), they aren't something that I'd want to acquire.
Again, the 1980 reissues are all 8 Dot pipes, I've never seen a One Dot. Most of the 1980 era pipes are hallmarked (all?)
The more Loring dug into Dunhill nomenclature & etc, the more exception-filled he found it to be.
Looks like something along those lines could be happening here. I'd bet a reasonable amount of money that the four dot that's giving Jessie a bad feeling is original in that the stem isn't a replacement, and the pipe wasn't sanded down past stamp-depth, re-stamped, and re-finished. Which leaves the large-ish "square" dot arrangement, and the more modern overall profile/outline. An early "trial run," perhaps?
I've had several "freak" Dunhills whose eras overlapped in ways that were never intended, but the realities of commercial production and human involvement said otherwise.
(Actually, I suspect Al is some sort of photoshop ninja and torturing the Brit board is what he considers high entertainment, but I'm trying to remain positive, here. :lol: )
Looks like something along those lines could be happening here. I'd bet a reasonable amount of money that the four dot that's giving Jessie a bad feeling is original in that the stem isn't a replacement, and the pipe wasn't sanded down past stamp-depth, re-stamped, and re-finished. Which leaves the large-ish "square" dot arrangement, and the more modern overall profile/outline. An early "trial run," perhaps?
I've had several "freak" Dunhills whose eras overlapped in ways that were never intended, but the realities of commercial production and human involvement said otherwise.
(Actually, I suspect Al is some sort of photoshop ninja and torturing the Brit board is what he considers high entertainment, but I'm trying to remain positive, here. :lol: )
From Stephen Smith's article on Sasieni history:
"Once Alfred took over the company in 1946, these elements changed in fairly rapid succession. The first thing to be changed was the nomenclature itself. In place of the elaborate “Sasieni” stamp of pre war pipes, a simpler, though still script style, “Sasieni” was used. This can be seen on patent pipes which have the small, old style dots.
Soon after, Sasieni enlarged the dots themselves, and they formed an equilateral rather than an elongated diamond. My pet theory on this is the dots were enlarged to make up for the fact there were no longer eight of them, but I can’t prove it."
Them Dots on that $850 Ashford sure do look like the later Dots to me.
"Once Alfred took over the company in 1946, these elements changed in fairly rapid succession. The first thing to be changed was the nomenclature itself. In place of the elaborate “Sasieni” stamp of pre war pipes, a simpler, though still script style, “Sasieni” was used. This can be seen on patent pipes which have the small, old style dots.
Soon after, Sasieni enlarged the dots themselves, and they formed an equilateral rather than an elongated diamond. My pet theory on this is the dots were enlarged to make up for the fact there were no longer eight of them, but I can’t prove it."
Them Dots on that $850 Ashford sure do look like the later Dots to me.
Pretty similar situation to the Dunhill specimens I referred to earlier. I once owned a 1954 shape 834 ODA that was stamped with a patent number, and still have a 1973 Redbark that's stamped with a 120 shape number. Plus, I've handled another dozen or so similar "should never have beens."
With Dunhill, anyway, being a victim of production coordination error makes a pipe worth considerably more, not less. (The 834 sold for over $2K a decade ago)
Well...........
I think the 4 pipes in the listing are authentic. As Al stated, they are way over buffed. I looked through the seller's 139 sold pipes on ebay and the heavy handed buffing is an unfortunate theme. Look at this one: 1961 Dunhill Look at the stem, button-- looks eerily similar to the Sasienis in question.
I know the "specially selected" stamps are probably out there somewhere, but I can't imagine these are fakes. The COM stamps are spot on, and the shapes............. would someone pick THOSE 4 shapes to counterfeit??.....
As for the color, I'm guessing they could have possibly been refinished, and all stained with the same stain. On my monitor, they don't look too far off.
At any rate, the asking price IS too high, but he does accept offers....... :wink:
What a shame, these.......... buffed to hell and back.
And George, the 1954 ODA should have had a patent number. Did you mean to type 1964? That would be an odd one........... :
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I think the 4 pipes in the listing are authentic. As Al stated, they are way over buffed. I looked through the seller's 139 sold pipes on ebay and the heavy handed buffing is an unfortunate theme. Look at this one: 1961 Dunhill Look at the stem, button-- looks eerily similar to the Sasienis in question.
I know the "specially selected" stamps are probably out there somewhere, but I can't imagine these are fakes. The COM stamps are spot on, and the shapes............. would someone pick THOSE 4 shapes to counterfeit??.....
As for the color, I'm guessing they could have possibly been refinished, and all stained with the same stain. On my monitor, they don't look too far off.
At any rate, the asking price IS too high, but he does accept offers....... :wink:
What a shame, these.......... buffed to hell and back.
And George, the 1954 ODA should have had a patent number. Did you mean to type 1964? That would be an odd one........... :
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1955, maybe? One year after the patent number was supposed to have ended? Now I'm confused. It was definitely an 834. A Bruyere. Loring said it was only the third (of whatever made it special) known to exist, and by far the best specimen of the three. It was also unsmoked. A collector in Los Angeles bought it for $2070. (As I've said before, I'm no expert when it comes to brand history or nomenclature particulars. What little I know is from casual conversations and handling lots of pipes.)And George, the 1954 ODA should have had a patent number. Did you mean to type 1964? That would be an odd one........... :
Now it's going to drive me crazy trying to remember why it was a freak, though. :lol:
Here's one for you I bought in 2014, the pictures are from the seller. It was being sold as a Barling. It's a real mash up. Is it a Barling's stem, yes. Is it a Barling's Pipe, no.
I didn't pay much for it, maybe as I recall $25-$30. So it is a Sasieni Specially Selected, with the Pat. No. plainly readable. Marked LG on the right hand side of the shank, which is consistent with these early (1919-1923) Sasieni pipes, and in very small letters on the lower left hand side of the shank, SB, which I have no idea the meaning of. Mortise looks like it is drilled to accept a stinger, so this pipe was a One Dot of some sort. It's a good sized pipe, slightly larger than the Viscount Lascelles shape, and the bowl is in excellent condition. The stem that came with the pipe is a very nice bent Barling's from pre-1950, with traces of the Reg'd No. faintly visible. It hasn't been taken any further. A stem for this would be a Gearge D. project (of course first I'd have to go find it...)
Larger pictures are here,
http://pipesmokerunlimited.com/showthread.php?6625-Vintage-Estate-Pipe-Barlings&highlight=specially+selected+sasieni
I didn't pay much for it, maybe as I recall $25-$30. So it is a Sasieni Specially Selected, with the Pat. No. plainly readable. Marked LG on the right hand side of the shank, which is consistent with these early (1919-1923) Sasieni pipes, and in very small letters on the lower left hand side of the shank, SB, which I have no idea the meaning of. Mortise looks like it is drilled to accept a stinger, so this pipe was a One Dot of some sort. It's a good sized pipe, slightly larger than the Viscount Lascelles shape, and the bowl is in excellent condition. The stem that came with the pipe is a very nice bent Barling's from pre-1950, with traces of the Reg'd No. faintly visible. It hasn't been taken any further. A stem for this would be a Gearge D. project (of course first I'd have to go find it...)
Larger pictures are here,
http://pipesmokerunlimited.com/showthread.php?6625-Vintage-Estate-Pipe-Barlings&highlight=specially+selected+sasieni
The seller of the four pipe SS set reports that the stingers are gone, but he claims the tenons are threaded (but no picture to prove that claim, albeit a difficult shot to take)
dmcmtk, now that is one you don't see often!.... :clap:
I'm thinking there was once a lonely Barling, who shared the same pipe rack with a lonely Sasieni, after a night of bliss little Barlieni was born............... what a cutie!...... :D
I'm thinking there was once a lonely Barling, who shared the same pipe rack with a lonely Sasieni, after a night of bliss little Barlieni was born............... what a cutie!...... :D
georged, the fact that yours was UNSMOKED would make it a freak in my book!..... what a treasure.
It seems the "transition" periods always produce their fair share of these "rulebreakers", regardless of the marque........ and thats what makes them so damn interesting to me............ :D
I wish you had a photo of that ODA 834, now its driving ME crazy...........
It seems the "transition" periods always produce their fair share of these "rulebreakers", regardless of the marque........ and thats what makes them so damn interesting to me............ :D
I wish you had a photo of that ODA 834, now its driving ME crazy...........
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