FDA Going Hostile on Tobacco Companies
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Not the case here in New Brunswick, all flavoured tobacco is banned. Cigarettes, cigars and pipe tobacco :crazy:
Have always found it the height of hypocrisy that the government is all about the evils of the addictive properties of nicotine but wouldn't touch alcohol with a 10 foot pole, (saying this as a wine lover). No doubt due to the fact that there are far more alcohol lovers among legislators and regulators than lovers of tobacco.
The thing I am finding the most shocking about any of this is that anyone finds it shocking. This has been coming for years, and as soon as smoking became politically incorrect, we lost the battle. Society is afraid to offend anyone, and it will push anything offending straight to hell. As soon as I read that the WHO wanted a tobacco free society by 2030, I've seen this coming, and have been buying what I can, when I can.
Welcome to the People's Republic of the Americas.
Now how People's Republic changes the connotation of Republic, implying Democratic which really means mob rule, but wait, A dictator is called for to push this crap through by force....Oops I forgot, The Fourth Branch is the real Dicatator. Oligarchy. Shame on us, so convoluted I couldn't complete the entire thought.
Now how People's Republic changes the connotation of Republic, implying Democratic which really means mob rule, but wait, A dictator is called for to push this crap through by force....Oops I forgot, The Fourth Branch is the real Dicatator. Oligarchy. Shame on us, so convoluted I couldn't complete the entire thought.
Warren-
Agreed that there are risks of pipe/cigars, but most(not all) pipe and cigars are cleaner less chemical treated tobaccos, plus you don't inhale, so it is night and day better for you... The real junk comes on the inhale in your lungs... Still should be a personal choice, not government one!
Davet-
Should have said Ontario, not Canada, that sucks man that all that stuff is banned in NB, real shame
Agreed that there are risks of pipe/cigars, but most(not all) pipe and cigars are cleaner less chemical treated tobaccos, plus you don't inhale, so it is night and day better for you... The real junk comes on the inhale in your lungs... Still should be a personal choice, not government one!
Davet-
Should have said Ontario, not Canada, that sucks man that all that stuff is banned in NB, real shame
Whether one is better than the other is a matter for your genes to decide. And, again it's the carcinogens released when the tobacco is burned, same a campfire, burning leaves, etc.
Most cigarettes are indeed wrapped in a chemically infused paper designed to stay ignited, even when sitting in an ashtray. The cigarettes I smoke are not wrapped in such. So I inhale a few less chemicals, most likely not fewer carcinogens. When not inhaled the carcinogens enter one's system through the membranes in the nose and mouth. Some are occasionally absorbed through the eyes when you are downwind from the smoke. We've all experienced the discomfort of smoke in the eyes I'm pretty sure.
The real difference is, most pipe smokers, simply smoke less than cigarettes smokers. A bowl or two a day, one a week, whatever, is certainly going to be less distructive than than twenty to forty cigarettes a day. But, if you overload an already taxed immune system, pipe+sun+the loss of somebody close+the flue+ any number of other stressors could equal cancer or a heart incident. Any one or a combination of the listed could unbalance the system which is constantly fighting all sorts of killers entering in or being generated by your system.
The pipe or cigar is different from the cigarette with regard to consumption in general. All are negatives with regard to personal health. I would sincerely like to see a study using only cigarette smokers, pipe smokers and cigar smokers where each class has the same or, nearly so, daily amount of smoke and the attendant carcinogens. I have something smoldering handing out of my mouth continuously, nearly every waking hour. So far, 70+ years, my genes, a string immune system, have been able to keep up with my risky lifestyle.
Most cigarettes are indeed wrapped in a chemically infused paper designed to stay ignited, even when sitting in an ashtray. The cigarettes I smoke are not wrapped in such. So I inhale a few less chemicals, most likely not fewer carcinogens. When not inhaled the carcinogens enter one's system through the membranes in the nose and mouth. Some are occasionally absorbed through the eyes when you are downwind from the smoke. We've all experienced the discomfort of smoke in the eyes I'm pretty sure.
The real difference is, most pipe smokers, simply smoke less than cigarettes smokers. A bowl or two a day, one a week, whatever, is certainly going to be less distructive than than twenty to forty cigarettes a day. But, if you overload an already taxed immune system, pipe+sun+the loss of somebody close+the flue+ any number of other stressors could equal cancer or a heart incident. Any one or a combination of the listed could unbalance the system which is constantly fighting all sorts of killers entering in or being generated by your system.
The pipe or cigar is different from the cigarette with regard to consumption in general. All are negatives with regard to personal health. I would sincerely like to see a study using only cigarette smokers, pipe smokers and cigar smokers where each class has the same or, nearly so, daily amount of smoke and the attendant carcinogens. I have something smoldering handing out of my mouth continuously, nearly every waking hour. So far, 70+ years, my genes, a string immune system, have been able to keep up with my risky lifestyle.
You never heard of Prohibition? Best ally organized crime ever had.
I just sort of read through this thread. Sigh, we are all just a bunch of hopped up crackheads, aren't we?
As has been noted, 20-40 cigarettes/day, is highly statistically correlated to cancer heart disease, etc. Though cigarettes are inhaled while pipes and cigars are usually not, the only hard evidence is from cigarette smokers, and there is more or less a century of it. When I go to the doctor they don't differentiate between me and cigarette smokers. I am simply a tobacco user. As has also been noted, my body as a pipe smokers is treated to whatever carcinogens are present through the mucous membranes of the mouth. As I have put it, pipe smoking is superior to cigarettes because you don't get COPD as quickly. Something dreadful may happen, eventually, but if at all possible I plan to die with a pipe in my mouth filled with Dark Flake.
Back to the less deleterious effects of pipe smoking. Though I'm sure there have been studies about its effects, they pale in comparison to almost 100 years of medical records linking cigarettes to disease and death. In my mind it is this evidence that has demonized all tobacco use. It doesn't help that Big Tobacco, like any good corporation, has been willing to put their cigarettes, engineered for maximum addiction, into the mouths of every first, second and third world baby or adult that they can. Anti-tobacco at the same time hamstrings tobacco use along with its manufacture by Big Tobacco.
There is unquestionable evidence against cigarette smoking. Other forms of tobacco are simply sinking with the ship.
Back to the less deleterious effects of pipe smoking. Though I'm sure there have been studies about its effects, they pale in comparison to almost 100 years of medical records linking cigarettes to disease and death. In my mind it is this evidence that has demonized all tobacco use. It doesn't help that Big Tobacco, like any good corporation, has been willing to put their cigarettes, engineered for maximum addiction, into the mouths of every first, second and third world baby or adult that they can. Anti-tobacco at the same time hamstrings tobacco use along with its manufacture by Big Tobacco.
There is unquestionable evidence against cigarette smoking. Other forms of tobacco are simply sinking with the ship.
The studies simply show all tobacco use is harmful. It's when one starts to justify smoking anything by minimizing the risks that the data becomes useful. As most of our mothers advised, "all things in moderation.
Less tobacco use is better than more tobacco use is all any of the studies really show we smokers. Taking it deep into the lungs is bad also. Well, there is that idea that no tobacco use is best. The pipe is not safer so much as less risky than cigarettes. Which is another way of saying, pipes are safer should you choose to word the various study results in such a manner. The seriously anti-tobacco types are not going to make that distinction. Those who wish to smoke a pipe or cigar are going to make that distinction as part of their risk/reward analysis. Most wanna be smokers, if they research at all, are gong to work hard to find anything which states pipes are safer as that is what they wish to find.
Less tobacco use is better than more tobacco use is all any of the studies really show we smokers. Taking it deep into the lungs is bad also. Well, there is that idea that no tobacco use is best. The pipe is not safer so much as less risky than cigarettes. Which is another way of saying, pipes are safer should you choose to word the various study results in such a manner. The seriously anti-tobacco types are not going to make that distinction. Those who wish to smoke a pipe or cigar are going to make that distinction as part of their risk/reward analysis. Most wanna be smokers, if they research at all, are gong to work hard to find anything which states pipes are safer as that is what they wish to find.
Question from the Doctor, "Do you smoke?"
Answer: "No"
The Good ole Doc is implying cigarettes. Besides, even if I were a cigarette smoker, I'd lie and say No. Because it's going in your dossier, the Insurance and the Government will then share it and when Socialized Healthcare Hits the US, I'll be in even more deep shit. I often wonder if California will be the equivalent to Siberia in America.
Answer: "No"
The Good ole Doc is implying cigarettes. Besides, even if I were a cigarette smoker, I'd lie and say No. Because it's going in your dossier, the Insurance and the Government will then share it and when Socialized Healthcare Hits the US, I'll be in even more deep shit. I often wonder if California will be the equivalent to Siberia in America.
Tobacco has served to set the precedent for the government/insurance complex to control whatever they choose by identifying it as a “public health” problem. Other specific things will be targeted in like manner.
I predict though that the primary, real health issues will not be addressed, because health is not really what all of this is about imo. It is about exercising control over certain things under the guise of public health.
Certainly heavy tobacco use (especially cigarettes) is unhealthy, but I don’t believe health is the real motivation.
Public health in general will continue to decline, primarily due to obesity, malnutrition and toxicity in food and water...and cancer rates will continue to climb. Those things will continue to worsen because a chronically ill population, not a truly healthy one, is actually what is desired.
The cancer industry will continue to thrive, long after tobacco has been swept into the ashtray of history. Because curing disease is anathema to the nature of the system...managing disease is where the money and control is.
I predict though that the primary, real health issues will not be addressed, because health is not really what all of this is about imo. It is about exercising control over certain things under the guise of public health.
Certainly heavy tobacco use (especially cigarettes) is unhealthy, but I don’t believe health is the real motivation.
Public health in general will continue to decline, primarily due to obesity, malnutrition and toxicity in food and water...and cancer rates will continue to climb. Those things will continue to worsen because a chronically ill population, not a truly healthy one, is actually what is desired.
The cancer industry will continue to thrive, long after tobacco has been swept into the ashtray of history. Because curing disease is anathema to the nature of the system...managing disease is where the money and control is.
They banned menthol cigarettes in alberta, my wife went to buy some when we were coming back from BC because alberta has cheaper cigs, no menthol though, they're banned. Nicotine isn't bad for you either. https://www.sott.net/article/195249-Warning-Nicotine-Seriously-Improves-Health I don't think tobacco without nicotine could make for a satisfying smoke, I'm not necessarily smoking for the nicotine, but I just can't see how it would have a satisfying taste without it.
I believe the first time our, the US, Government got involved in health issues was when Gen'l Washington ordered his army to be infected with smallpox. That was followed by improving health care in the Civil War. Then it was yellow fever. Polio was another illness the government went after. The idea that government involvement in health is something new is well, wrong. It's just that our ox is the one being gored at this time with tobacco at the forefront and that has caught our attention. And, we have nothing to fight back with other than, we like it! We're gonna need more than a purely selfish motive to stem the tide. Unlike Prohibition, tobacco is universally disliked. The Kennedys and Capones of the world won't be hauling cigarettes over the Canadian-US border this go round. There is not, in existence, a sufficient number of tobacco users swing the votes or, to support a substantial black market.
There can be no real argument about the health effects of cigarettes. The VAST majority of tobacco use is cigarettes.
I am all for tilting at windmills but I will pick another battle.
There is a decent chance that tobacco will go the way of whale oil in the next 50 years.
There isn't a damn thing anyone can do about it.
I am all for tilting at windmills but I will pick another battle.
There is a decent chance that tobacco will go the way of whale oil in the next 50 years.
There isn't a damn thing anyone can do about it.
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