I'm not good on matching tobaccos, but Dunhill's sun has been setting for years. Time to buy American!
End of Dunhill Tobaccos
- Thread starter gnarlybriar
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I do not believe the owner of the marque "Dunhill" has offered the name/recipes sale. The owner appears to, except for luxury cigarettes and cigars, want to leave Dunhill pipes and blends to history. I believe there is a Dunhill connected to the "White Spot" pipe but, he's prohibited from using Dunhill as an identifier. He doesn't own the rights to the name as a brand.
Dunhill blends are currently made by STG, which manufactures 118 blends under various names. http://www.tobaccoreviews.com/search?Manufacturer=Scandinavian+Tobacco+Group&Production=Currently+available
Maybe I'm cynical, but I'd be willing to bet that many of those are not unique, are that single blends are routinely labelled and sold under multiple names. I would not be surprised at all if all the "Dunhill" blends were already being sold under different names.
Maybe I'm cynical, but I'd be willing to bet that many of those are not unique, are that single blends are routinely labelled and sold under multiple names. I would not be surprised at all if all the "Dunhill" blends were already being sold under different names.
I've read that the pipes ID'd by "The White Spot" where divested from the owners of the Dunhill name as they wanted to completely dissociate the name "Dunhill" from anything tobacco. They probably saw tobacco and pipes as a pariah, given the strength of the antis. They probably all smoke but made a business decision. If it were true that the Dunhill tobaccos were not encumbered by recipe, production or sales rights, one of the big companies would have already stepped in and bought all rights. I wonder if the owners of the blends aren't continuing to dissociate in this instance by making sure they die.
When Richemont purchased Alfred Dunhill Ltd. they divested all of the tobacco interests to Rothmans, later BAT, 1993.
BAT still shows "Dunhill" as an owned brand. And, they are still marketing cigarettes/cigars with that brand. Dunhill being one of their best selling brands, according to the hype on the BAT site.
They only mention "snus", cigarette, cigarette alternatives, and cigars as products. There is no mention of pipe blends on the BAT site.
Perhaps "While Spot" could purchase the name and market old "Dunhill" blends as "white Spot" blends.
BAT still shows "Dunhill" as an owned brand. And, they are still marketing cigarettes/cigars with that brand. Dunhill being one of their best selling brands, according to the hype on the BAT site.
They only mention "snus", cigarette, cigarette alternatives, and cigars as products. There is no mention of pipe blends on the BAT site.
Perhaps "While Spot" could purchase the name and market old "Dunhill" blends as "white Spot" blends.
Do you mean that BAT feels that there are no profits in blends or that there really are no profits? If the latter, sales of the many many other tinned tobaccos say otherwise.
I realize sales make profits. But simple sales do not equal profits, sufficient sales make profits. Then one has to consider if that profit is sufficient to maintain a healthy company? I have no idea how many tins/pounds a any tobacco company needs to sell to realize a desired profit.
Perhaps you could enlighten me, what are the net and gross profits for whichever tobacco blend manufacturer you have such information for, private or public. I am interested.
Perhaps you could enlighten me, what are the net and gross profits for whichever tobacco blend manufacturer you have such information for, private or public. I am interested.
I have no such information. My only point was that a great deal of tinned tobacco is sold, and a great many retailers selling it. Were they not making sufficient profit, they wouldn't waste their time. smokingpipes bought C&D to profit from such sales. What one can do, so can others. What makes keeping the Dunhill brand alive any different than, say Three Nuns, that in my years has been bought and sold several times?
The difference would seem to be Dunhill doesn't want to be involved in pipe making or pipe tobacco, nor do they want their name to be associated with such. (which prevents a sale. That theory will be tested out over the next few years.)
Another possible reason is that for a very large corporation, a small subsidiary, even though profitable, may not fit their goals.
Another possible reason is that for a very large corporation, a small subsidiary, even though profitable, may not fit their goals.
BAT is obviously unhappy with the performance of the brand and they appear unwilling to part with the name. Why would they wish to assist a competitor? It's all about BAT and their business decision has nothing to do with us. Now, if a company made BAT an offer they couldn't refuse in fairness to their shareholders, we wouldn't be having this discussion. So far there does not appear to be an entity which desires to offer such a sum. The risk is too great maybe.
Is there a definitive date of Dunhill's demise, or just a waning window of wangle?
The name on the tin doesn't matter much to me. I'll smoke Dunhill in my Grabow and bulk in my Dunhill. I'd love to pay less for the BB1938 recipe if it's being sold under a different name. It's not the end of the world for me if Dunhill blends aren't around in the future but I'd miss my 1938.
In my opinion, GLP blends are the best in the business right now.
The name on the tin doesn't matter much to me. I'll smoke Dunhill in my Grabow and bulk in my Dunhill. I'd love to pay less for the BB1938 recipe if it's being sold under a different name. It's not the end of the world for me if Dunhill blends aren't around in the future but I'd miss my 1938.
In my opinion, GLP blends are the best in the business right now.
Corporations are among the most greedy of human institutions. Big Tobacco isn't going after Dunhill because the price to buy the brand and the recipes is high, apparently, and although they could make a profit, they don't feel they are being paid enough for their efforts. Trying to integrate Dunhill the company's disassociation is not to the point. They may not want the blends, but if the profit margin were right you can be sure someone else would.
Corporations are you and me, the shareholders either as individuals, through our retirement plans, etc. And, yes I am greedy with regard to moneys, I want value for my risk. If there was sufficient moneys to be made through the purchase of Dunhill tobaccos to attract a buyer, the deal would already be done. The offer would have been large enough for BAT to sit up and take notice. Shareholders would have forced the sale as they would be willing to take the risk of selling the name and recipes.
So, check your change collection, take a second mortgage, dip into the kids college fund and... make an offer. The worst that can happen is BAT, after snorting coffee out of their noses and recovering from the hysterical laughter, will refuse your offer.
So, check your change collection, take a second mortgage, dip into the kids college fund and... make an offer. The worst that can happen is BAT, after snorting coffee out of their noses and recovering from the hysterical laughter, will refuse your offer.
I'm thinking of calling Sykes at smokingpipes and telling him to buy the Dunhill tobaccos. In 2010 some online article said that the revenue from all the businesses in Laudsisi Enterprises was 13 million, 70% of which came from smokingpipes. I'm sure he'd take the call.
Thirteen million could be good or bad. Revenue, by itself, is a nearly meaningless number. What did the company spend to get that revenue? What will they spend next year to achieve or exceed the number next year? What percent of that revenue is in fact net profit?
Thirteen million dollars is not a lot of money, I think, even in a tobacco related business.
Thirteen million dollars is not a lot of money, I think, even in a tobacco related business.
I would like to know under what other names STG is packaging EMP, Nightcap and Royal Yacht. If I can stay in steady supply of those three, then Dunhill can get out of the tobacco business and sell overpriced ties and "motoring" gloves to their hearts content. Just keep the tobaccos coming - I don't care what they call them. :
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:LoL! For 13 million I doubt the call would get past the general switchboard operator. I don't think you get that Dunhill is leading luxury cigarette in the world. I'd bet the Dunhill brand is worth double or more what Altria/Phillip Morris paid for the Nat Sherman brand. 8O
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